Ask A Girl Where You Went Wrong If She Rejects You?

[electroBeam]

Has anyone been successful in figuring out how to ask a girl for dating/attraction feedback when she rejects you? I went cold approach today and found a girl, but she said she was too busy, so I asked her frankly in a playful way, where did i go wrong, and she didn't want to tell me and just kept laughing. This was on the phone btw. 

Has anyone else been successful in asking out girls who rejected them on where they went wrong? Like how will you improve if you're not entirely sure on what you did wrong in the first place.

[Toby]

Don't ask this question. They probably don't know either. They have certain feel or attraction or not. It has nothing to do with you. And it cannot be explained in logical terms.

For example: There might be women that you feel drawn to sexually but have only little interest to talk to or deepen some kind of relationship. If you were asked why, you wouldn't really know other than that you are not really drawn to her romantically. No reasons, no fault, no explanation. Nothing she could do to change that.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Toby

[Evilwave Heddy]

3 hours ago, electroBeam said:

This was on the phone btw. 

What does this mean?

[Toby]

@Evilwave Heddy probably: cold approach -> phone number -> asks her for a date on the phone -> she has no time to talk or for a date.

[Evilwave Heddy]

@Toby That or he tried picking up a random customer service agent. lol

Anyways, she probably just didn't find you attractive.  And her way of getting rid of you was to give you her number (when they give you their number, it doesn't mean they are interested in you.)  And many girls tend not to tell you why your pick up didn't work so to not to upset your feelings.

[Principium Nexus]

I agree with @Toby , a persons world view is so complex there is more than just one simple reason of rejection.

[electroBeam]

@blazed you're blazed with projection. None of what you said is true. Its only the 4th girl ive done cold approach to in 2 months. But anyway if you're not interested in answerimg my question, you're free to fuck off and find someone else to annoy :). This forum is for answering qs not spreading bs.

And cold approach is a great way to get married. Its increases your confidence for when you actually find the one, and its a great way of increase you social circle with women (girls are friends with girls)

Edited February 15, 2017 by electroBeam

[Life Coach]

Just don't. This is weak shit, it will make you look pathetic in any girls eyes in under one second. You gotta find out by yourself where you fucked up because you will never get this out of a girl. And even if she has enough mercy with you and actually replies, you can't even trust her reply because most girls themselves have no idea what turns them off or even on. Get on the C-Train and start learning from the best.

https://www.youtube.com/user/coachcoreywayne

[electroBeam]

1 hour ago, Life Coach said:

Just don't. This is weak shit, it will make you look pathetic in any girls eyes in under one second. You gotta find out by yourself where you fucked up because you will never get this out of a girl. And even if she has enough mercy with you and actually replies, you can't even trust her reply because most girls themselves have no idea what turns them off or even on. Get on the C-Train and start learning from the best.

https://www.youtube.com/user/coachcoreywayne

does it matter if you look weak? Like who cares about what a girl whose not interested in you thinks? And its really hard to figure it out yourself, cognitive biases etc. 

[Guest username]

It does make you look weak. Asking where you went wrong communicates low-value:

-It shows you have no clue what you're doing

-It's not socially appropriate and shows low social intelligence

- You're taking value instead of offering value, so the girl has no real incentive to help you. Plus, it's emotionally difficult for her.

 

If you need to understand where you're going wrong, don't bother asking the girl. They won't tell you, and even if they do, it usually isn't good advice since they will either try to spare your feelings or will lack the awareness of their own attraction to tell you what the issue is.

Just do a lot of approaches, study theory, write field reports, and try to get a grasp of your patterns and sticking points in your game.

[Leo Gura]

Once you approach 1000s of girls, you will know why they reject you without having to ask. You'll know better than they do. Until then, you'll be scratching your head a lot, wondering WHY? WHY? WHY?!!!

If you ask girls for attraction advice, they will more often than not mislead you.

It's not the girl's job to do your job for you. It's like you're a lion asking a gazelle how to hunt it. It's not in the gazelle's self-interest to tell you. The whole point of this process is for her to screen you for honest signals of worthiness. This is a serious matter. She's not gonna risk fucking you if you're weak. And she certainly doesn't want to logically analyze the matter with you.

[Peace and Love]

@electroBeam

On 2/15/2017 at 5:34 AM, electroBeam said:

Has anyone been successful in figuring out how to ask a girl for dating/attraction feedback when she rejects you? I went cold approach today and found a girl, but she said she was too busy, so I asked her frankly in a playful way, where did i go wrong, and she didn't want to tell me and just kept laughing. This was on the phone btw. 

Has anyone else been successful in asking out girls who rejected them on where they went wrong? Like how will you improve if you're not entirely sure on what you did wrong in the first place.

I totally get what you're trying to do here.  I remember speaking with you in another post about you having Asperger's, and I most likely have it too, so I completely understand how you might feel like it's harder to read people and you're trying to understand.  (I also just recently found out I have ADD that is provoked by dietary choices)   In my early college years I was also  in a committed relationship with this guy named Ryan that happened to have Asperger's.  I didn't even know he had Aspergers until he told me, and we were already dating for a few weeks.  We shared an art class together but we met at the arcade room at our community college.

I want you to know that you're doing great and I'm glad you're taking initiative! A lot of men don't change and never figure these things out!  The more men that get involved in pickup and go after the women they truly want to be with, the better off we will all be.  Happier relationships, less divorces, etc.

Like some of the men saying on here....lol....I'm going to offer my "TERRIBLE ADVICE".   

Women are very interesting...we're very EMOTIONAL and we can pick on things very easily that most men would not.  We are looking at things visually:  Like how you talk to us, your body language, what you say, your approach, what you are wearing, how you look,  the location you ask, etc. 

I really wish men wouldn't try so hard to pick us women up.   They make things more complicated than what it has to be.  If they would just approach us like a friend, and not like some piece of meat  (which unfortunately they come off this way even when they don't mean to), or having a modus operandi, it would make things so much easier and they would not face so much rejection.

I'll give you an example...TRUE STORY...back in December, my mom got picked up by this guy at the grocery store.  She was looking at salad dressing, and Mark approached my mom and asked her what she thought was a good low sodium salad dressing because his doctor told him he had to switch to some low sodium diet for health reasons.  Instead of asking for her number right away, where most men make the mistake....they talked for a good 20 minutes.  He was real, he was friendly, he wasn't acting like he wanted a piece of ass.   He wasn't worried, and he was having a good time talking to my mom.   And they were talking about all kinds of things, and it was just so natural and free flowing.  Eventually he gave her his number (which is much less threatening, and a smarter idea in my opinion).  My mom wasn't even physically attracted to this guy at all.  In fact she wasn't even looking to date because my dad had just passed away in October.  My mom taught me this rule, that I usually abide by, if a guy asks you out, at least give the guy a chance by going on a first date, because you NEVER KNOW.    My mom took that chance with Mark and they completely hit it off! He is a total angel in disguise and he literally worships the ground my mom walks on.  In fact they are in love and they are already planning to get married and it's only February!!! lol   Yay! I'm going to have a step dad and a step brother soon!

If men kept it that simple and mastered Mark's "Salad dressing technique" I think they would have a lot better experiences with women.


*Let me give some personal real examples of times I've been picked up by men and why I've rejected them! Maybe this will help you understand better.

Example #1:  3 years ago I was living in Fort Lauderdale, Florida and I was taking a walk outside one morning for some fresh air and exercise.  I was new to the area, because I had recently moved from Cocoa Beach, Florida where things were a lot safer and men were more family oriented. I was walking in a neighborhood and I almost felt unsafe to some extent.  There was no one else around, and this man that was probably about 6 ft 2 (and I'm 5 ft 9) approaches me.  I was already scared because I had walked down the wrong block.  And he was definitely not my physical type I would ever date.  In fact he looked sorta like a gang member. So when he approached me and told me I was "HOTT, and wanted my number"  I was scared shitless! lol.  I told him right away I had a boy friend (even though I really didn't. It's my classic sentence of saying NO)  He persisted on getting my number (and I'm holding a pepper spray in my sweat shirt ready to bolt) I told him again no really, I have a boy friend and walked off. 

Where the guy went wrong was first off....the LOCATION.  He should have picked up on my nervousness.  Second. the approach was really BAD.  He came off like he just wanted a piece of ass.  Thirdly the way he dressed gave me a really bad impression and that this could be a dangerous person. Fourth, he persisted and made me feel scared shitless!  I have a history of being stalked and once an almost planned kidnapping, so I'm very apprehensive...probably more than most women! lol   Past experiences can play a part in a women's mind and her decision making.


Example #2:  Two years ago I was in Virginia, and I went with my mom to Walmart down the street to pick up a few things.  My mom was off somewhere on another side of the store and I had walked down the PC gaming aisle.  This was around the time the new StarCraft expansion had come out so I was checking that out as well as some good "hidden object games". This gamer nerd guy came up to me and he said Hi and asked something about a game for like a sentence or two, and then asked for my number.  I immediately told him the classic answer "I'm sorry, I have a Boyfriend" statement and walked away as fast I could.

Where the guy went wrong was first off....his approach.  He was way too mechanical. And it felt uncomfortable. I could tell he was just coming over to talk to me to ask me out. It was like he wasn't even interested in getting to know me or even ask my name.  He just proceeded to getting a number.  If he had given me his number it would have been a lot better and more attractive to me.  If he had done a different approach and started talking to me about StarCraft, and asked what my favorite race is (Which is PROTOSS BTW!) .....  Like have a decent conversation for like 10 minutes!... I think he would have had a better shot.   I wasn't physically attracted to the guy, but I would have been way more likely to give him my number based off the emotional connection.  And if he had given me his number instead of asking for mine....it would have been even better.  When in doubt leave the ball in the girl's court.  And even if he wasn't my type he could have been a good friend, and who knows?  Life is all about connections!  Maybe I could have introduced him to a chick later on that would have been his type!

Example #3  Right now as I'm getting my own hypnosis/reiki business off the ground and healing from the loss of my dad's passing I'm working part time in a store. Last week I was at the cash register and this older guy who was atleast twice my age, (and I'm 33 but most people mistaken me for being in my early 20's)  started flirting with me.  He was making jokes that I wasn't finding funny or really making a connection with.  In fact he told me his wife was waiting for him in the car. He asked me for my number and I just laughed and continued completing his purchase....lol (obviously this guy was not practicing the cold approach, and I know that)

First off the guy was Waaaaaaaaaaaay too old for me.  Some chicks are into that.....but I'm not.  I would prefer someone around my age.  Second the jokes he was making were inappropriate and not funny at all.  Third....he had a wife! lol  Forth....he was looking for a piece of ass and it was obvious in plain site.  Fifth....it was just down right creepy!


You can email me btw, I hope this is helping and starting to make more sense to you.

There were a few guys that did do things right.  And I was in two long term relationships...one for 2 years, and the other 4 years.....What did they do???


My ex, who is my high school sweet heart. I was introduced to him by a mutual friend.  We talked for two weeks back and forth before we started dating.  We were just real with each other.  And for me GOOD COMMUNICATION is a must!  If I can't hold a good conversation with the guy, feel comfortable and safe with him, and tell him my deepest darkest feelings he's not worth pursuing or dating. There was no rush for anything when I met this guy.  We just clicked. He wasn't pushy, and he was friendly.   We could talk for hours on end and never get bored with each other. We had things in common. We were both on the cross country and track team and studied American Sign Language, and liked StarCraft. lol. So we had stuff to talk about.  He used Mark's "Salad Dressing Technique!".


My other ex, I met while I attended art school, at an anime club!  We just talked like friends, clicked and he asked for my number.  We stayed in contact, knew each other for two weeks, started dating, and then we made it official.  He also used Mark's "Salad Dressing Technique!".

K-I-S-S  =  Keep it Simple!! Sexy!!

Good Luck! I know you can do it!



 

[Jhonny]

@Peace and Love If i am broke as hell and only have few bucks to live by and you release a book with the content you shared above I will totally buy it. Sometimes i feel jealous why it is so easy for some people to make money than others.

[Life Coach]

45 minutes ago, John Flores said:

@blazed True, from my experiences all women are shallow and if they are not shallow, they are shallow about being not shallow (for the sake of status, like marrying a guru). I have yet to meet a woman who loves and sees past this physical world. Probably 1/5000 woman truly match this. I have given up on finding the right person - I am too entrenched in arguing with God on how he runs this silly word to worry about women

This is female nature. Accept it and get used to it, then you can decide if you wanna deal with it or not. You most likely will never find a woman who is unlike the others. The female nature is nicely described in "Way of the superior man", however the author overglorifies it way to much in my oppinion. He pretends like female nature is so fucking awesome, while when we have a honest look at it we find that it sucks. It's too emotional, it lacks values, it's shallow, it just sucks. No amount of sugarcoating can hide this. Once you get over your hornyness and your thirst for pussy and you see things clear you realize that women are just silly children, a lot of them are naturally evil, and they aren't really worth the sweat.

[clytaemnestra]

1 hour ago, Life Coach said:

it sucks

 

1 hour ago, Life Coach said:

It's too emotional, it lacks values, it's shallow, it just sucks.

 

1 hour ago, Life Coach said:

women are just silly children, a lot of them are naturally evil, and they aren't really worth the sweat.

 

And you're not shallow at all by putting 3 billions of people into one basket and making them less worth than you are. 

[Shin]

2 hours ago, Life Coach said:

This is female nature. Accept it and get used to it, then you can decide if you wanna deal with it or not. You most likely will never find a woman who is unlike the others. The female nature is nicely described in "Way of the superior man", however the author overglorifies it way to much in my oppinion. He pretends like female nature is so fucking awesome, while when we have a honest look at it we find that it sucks. It's too emotional, it lacks values, it's shallow, it just sucks. No amount of sugarcoating can hide this. Once you get over your hornyness and your thirst for pussy and you see things clear you realize that women are just silly children, a lot of them are naturally evil, and they aren't really worth the sweat.

 

Just like any male.

Sounds like you have issues with women.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Shin

[Emerald]

On 2/15/2017 at 5:34 AM, electroBeam said:

Has anyone been successful in figuring out how to ask a girl for dating/attraction feedback when she rejects you? I went cold approach today and found a girl, but she said she was too busy, so I asked her frankly in a playful way, where did i go wrong, and she didn't want to tell me and just kept laughing. This was on the phone btw. 

Has anyone else been successful in asking out girls who rejected them on where they went wrong? Like how will you improve if you're not entirely sure on what you did wrong in the first place.

I don't recommend doing this, as it's really uncomfortable to be on the receiving end of a pick-up attempt and having to reject someone. And if she were honest she would just have to say "I don't find you attractive," which sounds like an insult even if none is intended. It makes a woman feel like the man is in a low place and that by telling him her true feelings it would put him in an even lower place. So, please don't do this. 

But I think a deeper issue is that you're confusing male attraction mechanics with female attraction mechanics.

A man (biologically reptilian brain-wise) is wired to "spread the seed" to as many reasonably attractive women as he can. So, from the purely biological perspective, his screening process is based on a few, relatively quantifiable factors that relate mostly back to physical attractiveness. Does she hold up as the potential incubator for human life to come into being? And the standards are not too high, because he can afford a few weak offspring due to the breadth with which he can spread his genes. A man can have thousands of children in his lifetime. It sounds harsh, but he can afford a few duds. Better to mate with someone under his standards and risk having a dud, then to not mate at all. So, in the initial stages of attraction, male attraction can be boiled down to a checklist of a few factors largely based on appearance. And a man knows exactly why any given women doesn't make the cut. But chances are, quite a large number of women will make the cut. From my experience, men are not super picky. 

Female attraction (from the biological reptilian-brain level) is very different. She can have one child per year and her body, mind, and emotions are taxed in a major way while she's growing and carrying the child. Also, once the baby is born, the woman (in most cases throughout human history) takes on the brunt of the child-rearing for nearly two decades. So, she (from the purely biological level) is not wired to be as liberal with her choices in men, as men are with their choices in women. She CANNOT afford any dud children. She has much fewer chances to pass on her genes, so that man has to be super duper awesome and compatible. There is not a simple checklist of a few quantifiable qualities, that determine whether or not she's attracted. Female attraction, from my experience, comes up intuitively and has no cause. It's just chemistry... either it happens or it doesn't. Now, there are deal breakers. If I have great chemistry with a guy and he does a deal-breaker, this will change my feelings for him and make the chemical reaction inert. But there are not deal-makers. It's either there or it isn't there.

Of course, the base biological level isn't all there is. Men and women are a lot more similar than different once deeper feelings come into play. But, with some exceptions, we're totally different with our initial attraction styles.

So, don't take it personally, and don't put a woman in that position. It can feel very uncomfortable and intimidating to be approached in the first place, then to have to explain why is just all kinds of awkward. This is coming from a woman with social anxiety who hates hurting people's feelings. It's like going by a kiosk at the mall and they're trying to sell you something. And you say you're not interested, and then they ask you why not.

Just remember that she isn't emotionally wired the same way as you are in this manner. Her rejection doesn't mean that she finds you ugly or stupid or annoying or any other negative trait. It's not your fault that she didn't find you attractive and there's nothing you can do about it. It just means that the chemistry wasn't there, for no other reason than that it wasn't. You can't improve yourself into a woman's heart. That's why the friend zone is permanent. It's when a woman, instead of just saying "I don't find you attractive", sugar-coats it and just says "I'd rather be friends" which sounds nicer and avoids the harsher sounding truth. 

Edited February 18, 2017 by Emerald Wilkins

[Emerald]

14 minutes ago, blazed said:

Whilst I agree with all the biological evolutionary concepts and that’s how attraction came around initially I disagree with that’s how it works in today’s age.

Don’t know about other guys but the concept of spreading my seed and impregnating a women is so off putting it can discourage me from sex all together (unless we’re both ready to have a child).

Sex these days in most cases is purely for pleasure and dopamine release, big breast and hips are just more feminine and more opposite to a male body.

And thanks to science and technology we have so many contraception’s that women in the west don’t really care about becoming pregnant as much as our ancestors, and in the west women are much more promiscuous than ever in human history, coupled with online dating and crap like tinder, we have come a long way now, where both sexes can act like dogs and sex each other like dogs, both sexes are as bad as each other now, in fact some research shows women have more sexual partners than men now.

I don’t think porn is helping at all either, you know thanks to the novelty and Coolidge effects people start to want that in reality more too.

I am however sure that some men are getting laid all the time, whilst some men are starving for sex, the amount of times my g/f's have told me about how one of their friends slept with with a player, a married guy, or someone who has a g/f already and had their hearts broken is countless, whilst I got some nice guy, virgin friends wishing they could find someone... women are pure shit at making choices. It's like they want the player... but don't want the player at the same time!

It would be very incorrect to think that human beings aren't still wired in this way. We're mostly not conscious of it, so it feels the way that you describe it. But it's still the thing that drives us to have sex, even if we don't consciously want a baby. So, it's important not to negate the effects of the lower nature's programming on our mating behaviors. Of course, few people think of this when in the process of courtship. It doesn't feel like this would be the thing driving us forward because the higher nature has lots of ideas and ideals that frame and obscure the urges and impulses of the lower nature. We're still animals, at the end of the day. Knowing this will help you understand so much more about human sexual behavior without feeling slighted by the natural differences that occur between members of each sex. 

But I would caution you also to be aware of your feelings and prejudices relative to women. I can tell you have some anger. If your opinions are negative about an entire gender, it's usually because of personal repression and projection onto the perceived other. I recommend looking into Anima possession. I have a video on it, if you're interested. If you want to let go of your anger, seek to understand and not to judge. 

[electroBeam]

3 hours ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

I don't recommend doing this, as it's really uncomfortable to be on the receiving end of a pick-up attempt and having to reject someone. And if she were honest she would just have to say "I don't find you attractive," which sounds like an insult even if none is intended. It makes a woman feel like the man is in a low place and that by telling him her true feelings it would put him in an even lower place. So, please don't do this. 

But I think a deeper issue is that you're confusing male attraction mechanics with female attraction mechanics.

A man (biologically reptilian brain-wise) is wired to "spread the seed" to as many reasonably attractive women as he can. So, from the purely biological perspective, his screening process is based on a few, relatively quantifiable factors that relate mostly back to physical attractiveness. Does she hold up as the potential incubator for human life to come into being? And the standards are not too high, because he can afford a few weak offspring due to the breadth with which he can spread his genes. A man can have thousands of children in his lifetime. It sounds harsh, but he can afford a few duds. Better to mate with someone under his standards and risk having a dud, then to not mate at all. So, in the initial stages of attraction, male attraction can be boiled down to a checklist of a few factors largely based on appearance. And a man knows exactly why any given women doesn't make the cut. But chances are, quite a large number of women will make the cut. From my experience, men are not super picky. 

Female attraction (from the biological reptilian-brain level) is very different. She can have one child per year and her body, mind, and emotions are taxed in a major way while she's growing and carrying the child. Also, once the baby is born, the woman (in most cases throughout human history) takes on the brunt of the child-rearing for nearly two decades. So, she (from the purely biological level) is not wired to be as liberal with her choices in men, as men are with their choices in women. She CANNOT afford any dud children. She has much fewer chances to pass on her genes, so that man has to be super duper awesome and compatible. There is not a simple checklist of a few quantifiable qualities, that determine whether or not she's attracted. Female attraction, from my experience, comes up intuitively and has no cause. It's just chemistry... either it happens or it doesn't. Now, there are deal breakers. If I have great chemistry with a guy and he does a deal-breaker, this will change my feelings for him and make the chemical reaction inert. But there are not deal-makers. It's either there or it isn't there.

Of course, the base biological level isn't all there is. Men and women are a lot more similar than different once deeper feelings come into play. But, with some exceptions, we're totally different with our initial attraction styles.

Yeah makes sense. I just assumed a girl would be like "oh hes physically unattractive, so I dont want to date him" or "oh he wasn't assertive enough so I found him unattractive" in her head while dating me, because im definitely aware of why i dont like someone romantically. But I did totally forget about the whole "girls dont know what they want" mantra when making this question.

Though im not quite sure if evolutionary traits still exist. Im naturally very very very selective with who i want to date. I find 1/500 girls attractive and long term material. Its taken me a lot of hard core shadow work to be able to go out on dates and have sex and maybe even possibly a casual relationship with a girl im not attracted to. Ie the average woman. 

Though im not sure if i could handle a serious or actual relationship with a casual woman just yet, or ever.

Quote

So, don't take it personally, and don't put a woman in that position. It can feel very uncomfortable and intimidating to be approached in the first place, then to have to explain why is just all kinds of awkward. This is coming from a woman with social anxiety who hates hurting people's feelings. It's like going by a kiosk at the mall and they're trying to sell you something. And you say you're not interested, and then they ask you why not.

I must have come across as bitter in my post, but honestly i was just thinking of ways to innovate on pickup and figure out ways to increase skills quicker. Although I do believe that you can improve yourself into someone's heart, if you learn enough pickup. Attraction is a science after all.

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 "I'd rather be friends".

I would rather them say that they don't find me attractive. At least then I know its not something I said or a family problem or some other problem not related to attractiveness. You must have hacked my phone, because I girl said that to me after dating me for 3 weeks literally 3 days ago.  though she wouldn't have said that if I started pickup 3 years ago, because then my ego would have been attractive to her.

Quote

It's not your fault that she didn't find you attractive and there's nothing you can do about it.

Again, if i did 3 years of pickup beforehand I would have definitely have gotten her. I can't do anything about it if i dont improve myself.

Edited February 18, 2017 by electroBeam

[Toby]

A major false assumption and also sales pitch in the pickup community is this: "the man can control the reaction of the woman". And then there are different ways the man should go about. Of course there are some things about appearance or mindset that have a positive or negative effect. And of course you can also hypnotize women. But if the woman is looking for a genuine connection which lasts longer than some initial rush/high many things won't work. There is either a connection there or not. You cannot force a connection or somehow control life. It doesn't work that way.