The Solipsistic Bubble

[Razard86]

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/a04glm/how_we_trick_you_when_you_play_a_large_open_world/

Watch this.... and ponder....

[r0ckyreed]

That is so cool man! I am still not sure what that means lol. Sounds like Esse Este Percipi to me — To be is to be perceived.

Edited September 13, 2022 by r0ckyreed

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

That is so cool man! I am still not sure what that means lol. Sounds like Esse Este Percipi to me — To be is to be perceived.

Go back and rewatch Leo's video on Solipsism and how your bubble and reality works and then look at that link lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD5NZuyAhR0&t=2s

[Dazgwny]

Very good ?? 

[Dazgwny]

So we could say that during a nightly dream that this solipsistic bubble nature of the open world game trick is most certainly the case. But the question raises about the infinity of gods scenario. Could we say the same thing is happening but with multiple of these, all interconnecting, like an online multiplayer version of the same scenario? So your bubble is still the case, but there are others to connect with and interact with? Bubbles communing with bubbles, overlapping and interconnecting. Hence the shared dream scenario. Then no one else’s experience could be denied. Where as in a nightly dream all experiences of others can be denied. But then this raises more questions of how does this then at some point collapse into one, a singularity? You/I being it?

Edited September 14, 2022 by Dazgwny

[amanen]

1 hour ago, Dazgwny said:

So we could say that during a nightly dream that this solipsistic bubble nature of the open world game trick is most certainly the case. But the question raises about the infinity of gods scenario. Could we say the same thing is happening but with multiple of these, all interconnecting, like an online multiplayer version of the same scenario? So your bubble is still the case, but there are others to connect with and interact with? Bubbles communing with bubbles, overlapping and interconnecting. Hence the shared dream scenario. Then no one else’s experience could be denied. Where as in a nightly dream all experiences of others can be denied. But then this raises more questions of how does this then at some point collapse into one, a singularity? You/I being it?

You don't realize how deep the self-construction goes... your consciousness has to construct everything in your experience. This includes things like space, time, the external environment, and limitations. There can be no external elements, since it is all one, it all must be ultimately constructed by the same thing. You are not actually seeing a world, you are seeing your own mind. There is nothing behind appearances. Plus, how would your bubble be sovereign without constructing everything? You see, you can't offload any of the construction to some 'other' consciousness, because your consciousness must be constructing everything in order for it to be truly sovereign. The solipsistic realization is that there is only actually the infinite mind appearing as finite, not finite minds co-constructing a reality. Everything you ever experienced has been constructed by your own mind, and it can't come from some outside source outside your consciousness... Because the appearances itself are the thing, nothing comes out from some other place. Plus once you start considering the actual way in which this sort of shared-construction would work, it really makes no sense. How could two people be constructing each other? How could anything be sovereign in that case? The outside world is equivalent to your own consciousness.

[Dazgwny]

@amanen well yea I did feel as though I had this down to a certain degree. My own awakenings one after another seemed to cement that position. Then the infinity of gods concept was brought to my attention, and yes to me just a concept because I havnt realised what he’s talking about with that for myself, but it threw a spanner in the works and seems to have me confused again. What your saying matches with my own realisations

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, amanen said:

You don't realize how deep the self-construction goes... your consciousness has to construct everything in your experience. This includes things like space, time, the external environment, and limitations. There can be no external elements, since it is all one, it all must be ultimately constructed by the same thing. You are not actually seeing a world, you are seeing your own mind. There is nothing behind appearances. Plus, how would your bubble be sovereign without constructing everything? You see, you can't offload any of the construction to some 'other' consciousness, because your consciousness must be constructing everything in order for it to be truly sovereign. The solipsistic realization is that there is only actually the infinite mind appearing as finite, not finite minds co-constructing a reality. Everything you ever experienced has been constructed by your own mind, and it can't come from some outside source outside your consciousness... Because the appearances itself are the thing, nothing comes out from some other place. Plus once you start considering the actual way in which this sort of shared-construction would work, it really makes no sense. How could two people be constructing each other? How could anything be sovereign in that case? The outside world is equivalent to your own consciousness.

This is exactly right.   

This can be directly validated of course.  

Also if you really think about it - it is your mind that is constructing the self and other duality.  In truth You never needed self and other.  There is just Self.  It's just that Self has fragmented itself to appear as self, and then others out there.  (Other minds) When in actuality none of this is even needed.  Only one Mind is needed.  It can then expand to be everything or it can contract to appear finite.  It is just a subtle shift in consciousness to get a glimpse of this.   That shift is the expansion. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, amanen said:

You don't realize how deep the self-construction goes... your consciousness has to construct everything in your experience. This includes things like space, time, the external environment, and limitations. There can be no external elements, since it is all one, it all must be ultimately constructed by the same thing. You are not actually seeing a world, you are seeing your own mind. There is nothing behind appearances. Plus, how would your bubble be sovereign without constructing everything? You see, you can't offload any of the construction to some 'other' consciousness, because your consciousness must be constructing everything in order for it to be truly sovereign. The solipsistic realization is that there is only actually the infinite mind appearing as finite, not finite minds co-constructing a reality. Everything you ever experienced has been constructed by your own mind, and it can't come from some outside source outside your consciousness... Because the appearances itself are the thing, nothing comes out from some other place. Plus once you start considering the actual way in which this sort of shared-construction would work, it really makes no sense. How could two people be constructing each other? How could anything be sovereign in that case? The outside world is equivalent to your own consciousness.

 

you are speaking from logic and assuming that certain things are impossible. Assuming that we know the mechanics of infinity doesn't make sense to me. I understand what you are saying and when I have done psychedelics I have had these realizations: nothing can be outside of my experience.  but I think it is a false vision, since it's true and false same time. infinity unfolds infinitely. infinity divided by any number=infinity. At the end there is no division, it's only one, but seems multiple. why wouldn't this be possible? 

[Matthew85]

4 hours ago, amanen said:

You don't realize how deep the self-construction goes... your consciousness has to construct everything in your experience. This includes things like space, time, the external environment, and limitations. There can be no external elements, since it is all one, it all must be ultimately constructed by the same thing. You are not actually seeing a world, you are seeing your own mind. There is nothing behind appearances. Plus, how would your bubble be sovereign without constructing everything? You see, you can't offload any of the construction to some 'other' consciousness, because your consciousness must be constructing everything in order for it to be truly sovereign. The solipsistic realization is that there is only actually the infinite mind appearing as finite, not finite minds co-constructing a reality. Everything you ever experienced has been constructed by your own mind, and it can't come from some outside source outside your consciousness... Because the appearances itself are the thing, nothing comes out from some other place. Plus once you start considering the actual way in which this sort of shared-construction would work, it really makes no sense. How could two people be constructing each other? How could anything be sovereign in that case? The outside world is equivalent to your own consciousness.

This leads to paradoxes my human mind cannot understand. How can we each reach the insight of being the only conscious being constructing all others?

For example, you feel you are a conscious being having an experience of life, but according to your perspective the post you wrote that I am reading would have to be a creation of my mind. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Matthew85

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Matthew85 said:

This leads to paradoxes my human mind cannot understand. How can we each reach the insight of being the only conscious being constructing all others? 

We don't.   There is only You. We are projections of your mind.   When you awaken you realize this.   

[Matthew85]

@Inliytened1 I am trying to wrap my mind mind around this, but it's challenging. 

During three of my OBE's I was shown how all my actions affect others and how they ripple out. Positive and negative. If others are not having a conscious experience of life similar to my own, if they are only projections of my mind, I don't understand why my higher mind would create this experience for me. If there wasn't some truth to be conveyed there, what was the point? 

[Inliytened1]

11 minutes ago, Matthew85 said:

@Inliytened1 I am trying to wrap my mind mind around this, but it's challenging. 

During three of my OBE's I was shown how all my actions affect others and how they ripple out. Positive and negative. If others are not having a conscious experience of life similar to my own, if they are only projections of my mind, I don't understand why my higher mind would create this experience for me. If there wasn't some truth to be conveyed there, what was the point? 

Why would whether other minds had separate experiences matter to your question? It really doesn't.  Why couldn't you create this experience regardless? In fact wouldn't it be even simpler to just have one mind yet the the appearance or illusion of other minds ?  What's the difference as long as you imagine they are separate?   If you think about it, there really is no difference.  It's just that we are bias towards having some tyoe of physical, material separation.  

Edited September 14, 2022 by Inliytened1

[Matthew85]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

Why couldn't you create this experience regardless? In fact wouldn't it be even simpler to just have one mind yet the the appearance or illusion of other minds ?

@Inliytened1 Of course I could create this experience. What would be the point though? It felt to me during these experiences a higher truth was being conveyed to me. If it's all done as some elaborate illusion, that doesn't feel right to me. 

[Matthew85]

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Why would whether other minds had separate experiences matter to your question?

@Inliytened1 Because being shown other minds are aware and having a conscious experience the same as me implies I am not the only conscious being that exists. 

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, Matthew85 said:

@Inliytened1 Of course I could create this experience. What would be the point though? It felt to me during these experiences a higher truth was being conveyed to me. If it's all done as some elaborate illusion, that doesn't feel right to me. 

Because you are ascribing a negative connotation to illusion...but isn't that relative?  Why does illusion have to be negative?  When you look at what happens behind the scenes of that video game it kinda takes the wind out of your sails as the player.  You don't want to know the Truth that stuff is rendered only when directly experienced.   But that is the most efficient way to design the game.   And it doesn't affect the players experience.   It's only when the player sees behind the curtain that it can affect him because the player has bias and is finite - he wants the game to be a certain way for him even in its design, even if its not the most intelligent design.   Anyway,  that's why we say spirituality and Truth is so dangerous to the ego ?

Edited September 14, 2022 by Inliytened1

[Matthew85]

13 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Because you are ascribing a negative connotation to illusion...but isn't that relative?  Why does illusion have to be negative? 

@Inliytened1 True, but I still don't see the point. It really felt a truth was being conveyed. You are saying it was all some illusion not truth. 

16 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

When you look at what happens behind the scenes of that video game it kinda takes the wind out of your sails as the player.  You don't want to know the Truth that stuff is rendered only when directly experienced.   But that is the most efficient way to design the game.

The video game analogy is often used. I'm not sure that is the best analogy. God has infinite resources and doesn't need to conserve them in the way video game designers do. 

19 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

he wants the game to be a certain way for him even in its design, even if its not the most intelligent design.

It's not that I want reality to be a certain way. I have always been interested in the truth. Some of my experiences I feel were giving me insights into truth. like my OBE's. So to say that was all a constructed illusion that wasn't revealing any truth doesn't feel right to me. It would be like someone telling Leo all his insights from psychedelics were not revealing any real truth, it was just an elaborate illusion he constructed. 

[Razard86]

32 minutes ago, Matthew85 said:

@Inliytened1 True, but I still don't see the point. It really felt a truth was being conveyed. You are saying it was all some illusion not truth. 

The video game analogy is often used. I'm not sure that is the best analogy. God has infinite resources and doesn't need to conserve them in the way video game designers do. 

It's not that I want reality to be a certain way. I have always been interested in the truth. Some of my experiences I feel were giving me insights into truth. like my OBE's. So to say that was all a constructed illusion that wasn't revealing any truth doesn't feel right to me. It would be like someone telling Leo all his insights from psychedelics were not revealing any real truth, it was just an elaborate illusion he constructed. 

Illusion and truth are all the same. Notice right now what you are doing, you are choosing to deny what is presented to you, and choosing to believe otherwise which is itself another illusion you are constructing. Do you get how this works. YOU ARE TRUTH! So whatever you imagine IS TRUE! That is why self- bias is so hard to get around because you can just keep imagining and imagining endlessly forever.

To find out the truth, you have to be willing to accept what you find. Also Infinity of Gods is true...why? Because its imaginary LOL. Imagination and reality are the same. Reality is created through imagination.

Also I have a friend on this forum who connected with Leo in his infinity of Gods awakening. So....yeah its true. It doesn't violate the solipstic bubble, it just reveals that each person in the dream has a higher self constructing them that you have imagined into existence which is why you cannot have access to their direct experience. 

But obviously you IMAGINED these Gods into existence as part of the construction of how the dream functions. So you can awaken to the fact that you did this...and merge with their God Head. That is the point of the Infinity of Gods.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Razard86

[Matthew85]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

Illusion and truth are all the same. Notice right now what you are doing, you are choosing to deny what is presented to you, and choosing to believe otherwise which is itself another illusion you are constructing. Do you get how this works. YOU ARE TRUTH! So whatever you imagine IS TRUE!

I do feel there are absolute truths. Things that are true under all circumstances. I don't agree that everything is equally true just because someone chooses to believe it is. 

[SOUL]

One can believe it's absolute truth that the fast approaching train won't hurt even though they are standing on the tracks but I guess the train's belief that it will splatterfy the soft, fleshy creature in front of it is truer?

Ah...ok, you are the train and the train is you so it's simply an exercise in the absolute unity of all one can experience in the relative....nevermind.

2 hours ago, Matthew85 said:

The video game analogy is often used. I'm not sure that is the best analogy. God has infinite resources and doesn't need to conserve them in the way video game designers do

This. The notion that things don't exist when not observing them is an inconsistency of this solipsistic ideology as expressed currently. How can the relative be in control of the manifest when it is a product of the absolute?

This is why it would be more accurate to suggest that everything exists even though the relative isn't observing it because the absolute is always observing. The relative just may not be aware of the omnipresent absolute observation.

I fully expect this reasoning to be adopted by the solipsists because it actually addresses a main criticism of the ideology.