Urge to have children is the cause of many negative aspects of human condition.

[Arthogaan]

Often during my trips I wonder how did we fuck up so much. That the wage slavery and mediocrity is so common. That people are so stuck in their victimhood and in their unhappy life situations. And very often I find the answer to be children/family. Having kids is a beautiful thing, but I just want to point out the disadvantages. I am open to change my mind on the following three points:

1. When I feel frustrated by my job I remind myself that I can always change it. That I can even work for half a year and travel for the money the rest of the year. Of course in that way I will not be living the most comfortable life, but for a free and spiritual life it is surely enough. And when I feel eased by that contemplation I am always shocked -" wait, why so few people do it like that?". And when I look at my friends or family usually the answer is children. Then you always have to worry about someone, to care for someone, and finances are much harder. Which is beautiful, but takes a lot of freedom away.

You can always change partner, job, save some money for traveling or developing your passion - life is so easy when you do not have kids.


2. Visualization exercise: I imagine a village with 100 of people. After some time I imagine everyone has basic needs fulfilled. Okay now we have the time to build everyone a house. Okay, now lets make our food production more efficient so that we have more free time. Okay everything is taken care of and now we can contemplate, make science and art - unless we make more kids -> not enough food -> more work -> we need more working hands -> more kids. And this vicious cycle is with us to this day. Isn't that the main cause of why average Joe has to work 40h weeks in a job that he does not like? 


3. Wouldn't a following simple rule solve many of our problems? - "Only have children when you are capable of providing them with food and shelter for most of their life". Imagine a society in which it is normal for a kid to be supported by default for a whole life by his parents, and then he does not have to do any work that he is not inspired by. He can focus on art, science, spirituality or whatever interests him. Wouldn't that create whole lot of geniuses for us? Wouldn't that counter-intuitively actually boost our growth as humankind? Isn't it irresponsible that parents make kids that then are forced to work 40h weeks?

Edited September 13, 2022 by Arthogaan

[Willie]

The birth rate is falling in many developed countries, so I think that supports your claims.

For developing countries, more people are concerned with survival rather than enjoying life. Children are a necessity for survival.

[sholomar]

Our thoughts are the major cause of most of the upset in our lives the fact that we are plugged into this matrix and fed this narrative by social media that the world is falling apart.

There is plenty of happy and well adjusted people raising families out here in the upper Midwest in South dakota, wisconsin, and Minnesota, we just tend to see what we want to see and we have this bad tendency of spinning narratives in our heads about past and future circumstances when really the solution is to be in the present moment and to be that which you want to see in others. A lot of people don't focus on news or world events because they believe that garbage inputs equals garbage outputs.

If you really look objectively this planet and our evolution as a species we've always been kind of a messed up species there's never really been a long stretch of thousands of years where there been some Paradise on this planet nature and evolution are all dog eat dog, natural selection, and survival of the fittest. If you take a look at a forest floor the trees are literally competing with each other for nutrients, like that song by the band Rush called the trees. 

The trick is keeping a positive mindset and choosing to react differently to situations rather than being angry, jealous, upset, guilty, etc.  Also stop worrying about what everybody else is doing and focus on your own personal development.

Too many people think that trying to change other people's behavior is going to make them happy and that's simply not going to work nor is it really feasible. The urge to procreate is the most basic urge in evolution that will likely be pervasive among every single life form in this universe ... There's no changing this urge and it's best not to worry about things you can't change and focus on what you can change.

Edited September 13, 2022 by sholomar

[Lila9]

47 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

Okay everything is taken care of and now we can contemplate, make science and art - unless we make more kids -> not enough food -> more work -> we need more working hands -> more kids.

It's nice as long as village's people are young and healthy, but the situation might look different when they are old or sick and need some help from someone who's younger and healthier who cares about them. They will die without any future generation to appriciate and develop all their previous artistic, spiritual and intellectual development. It will be as they have never really existed. 

Children are a symbol of continuity and hope. They are manifestation of God, expression of God. 

Having children is a big sacrifice on the personal level, it's a noble thing imo. 

The problem arises when people have children unconsciously, or out of duty, especially if those people are poor and not mentally healthy or that self aware, which includes many people in our society, or most.

Our society isn't that safe for children, it isn't that safe for adults either, we are very confused about our future and there are many struggles in the modern society.

Unlike in the past, today we get the choice to have kids or not, so I understand why many people prefer not to have.

  

1 hour ago, Arthogaan said:

Imagine a society in which it is normal for a kid to be supported by default for a whole life by his parents, and then he does not have to do any work that he is not inspired by. He can focus on art, science, spirituality or whatever interests him. Wouldn't that create whole lot of geniuses for us? Wouldn't that counter-intuitively actually boost our growth as humankind? Isn't it irresponsible that parents make kids that then are forced to work 40h weeks?

It's not a good idea. It's too simplistic for the complex reality. I know it's cruel to bring children to this world because of all the suffering, but, children should let go of expectations from their parents, stop blaming them and focus on improving the world for themselves and future generations. It's a part of our human condition and evolution. With every new generation we get better as a species. 

Many young people today rebel against the economy and the structure of workplaces, gradually it makes an impact and hopefully a positive change in the world, not immediately because there always people who are against the change, but it's happening and the old world gradually going to its end.

 

 

 

[something_else]

It really annoys me when I see people who want to have kids before they're at least 25 in Western countries.

I'm a pretty neutral person on most political topics, but I feel strongly about people having kids when they're young.

Having a kid before you have matured yourself is potentially ruining 3 lives. Your life, your partner's life and the child's life.

I'd say no one in first world countries is ready to have a kid before 25. First world countries require a lot of time for you to sort out your own life. It's pretty difficult to have enough experience in your own life to bring a kid into this world and raise it to live a good life if you're not at least 25 or older. There are exceptions I'm sure, but that's a good general rule IMO.

Personally I'm not planning on having kids until I'm 30.

[Kksd74628]

@something_else

As long as you have real intention to grant the best possible life for your child, I don't have the problem in it. That requires skill to match your own personal life journey with parenting, but everything is attainable if you really focus and give effort to it. It's not too much about your ego, but development level, life situation and overall values. Just remember to build your child better than you ever were, whatever that means to you. Having permanent job, trying to go with your journey and raising a child can be hard though. That's when we come to family roles again; another one does the work and another one cleans house, is with children, cooks and goes to shop.