How Socialization Makes You Stupid

[Razard86]

Ego/Seperate Self/= The belief of superiority of the individual self as better than others. Its a belief of hierarchy as being equivalent to value and self-worth.

Per Leo's Old Video he made a request that hopefully we would let him know when he is acting out of ego. 

So here we go. Now is Leo incorrect that talking to others that are not as intelligent and lower consciousness can bring down your intelligence? Well it depends which intelligence you are talking about. Can it bring down your ability to think abstractly? Yes it can if you are being inundated with as he called conformist propaganda. So he is not incorrect about that. He brings to you the trade-off of how it can be a distraction and it can infiltrate your ability to think in new innovative ways.... which this is also true. He then tells you he has reached new levels of Super Human Intelligence and this is all great....but he is forgetting something. 

The trade off, of not socializing is he loses embodiment. As Leo will tell you Love and Intelligence are equal. The Highest Intelligence is to recognize that there is no difference at all. So there is no difference between Higher and Lower, shorter or taller, rich or poor. This is all illusionary and Leo himself knows this... additionally once you start making this distinction...it creates a fear. The more intelligent Leo becomes....the greater his fear of having that intelligence corrupted. It needs to be pure and pointed in one direction, unabated by distractions and petty drama of the chimps that surround him. 

But does this line up with what Leo said earlier about if a teaching doesn't point towards Self-Love then its not the highest teaching. When he says Self Love he means Love of ALL of reality as equal and as One. 

I think the best medicine is for Leo to rewatch his own videos. https://youtu.be/4OmMpYa7R_U?t=6323

^This is a good one too. 

Now at the same time....we can only be as we are in the present moment. So think of this as just a reminder of your own content. You can only do things at the rate you are comfortable with. But this is a good teachable moment for people to realize that nobody is perfect...we are all just learning to expand at different rates at whatever limitations we are currently dealing with since we are experiencing duality. 

This is just more evidence that God is just teaching us through the Leo avatar, but the Leo avatar has to go through the same duality that we all go through. Embodiment of love....is the hardest thing there is. 

This is what is currently at play in his life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp99hZJfBHg&t=3768s&ab_channel=Actualized.org

I'll end this with a video from Alan Watts as I don't want to make this post too long. 

 

[Tyler Robinson]

I strongly disagree with Leo on this. 

My personal experience is completely opposite of what Leo says. 

Actually it depends a lot on who you are socializing with. 

I've discussed this on this thread. 

Leo is partially right but only partially. 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Tyler Robinson

[Tyler Robinson]

@Leo Gura Leo if you talk to high IQ people you're going to be enriching yourself a lot. You have simply tricked yourself into believing that socializing dumbs you down. It's similar to books Leo. If you read shitty books, it's not going to be useful, you have to read books that are high on signal to noise ratio. That was the whole point.

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Tyler Robinson

[Thought Art]

I watched the whole episode

Basically there is a trade off to being alone or socializing. 
 

You won’t learn as deeply about reality if you socialize all the time. And, most people aren’t highly intelligent and most human interaction is surface level and petty. But also, if you can’t socialize and rarely do you also aren’t intelligent. Spending time with others you generally have to conform to their framing.

He stresses the importance of sitting alone and thinking your own thoughts. That even reading, videos, podcasts etc can make you stupid if you never think your own original thoughts.

[Loba]

32 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Now is Leo incorrect that talking to others that are not as intelligent and lower consciousness can bring down your intelligence? Well it depends which intelligence you are talking about. Can it bring down your ability to think abstractly? Yes it can if you are being inundated with as he called conformist propaganda. So he is not incorrect about that. He brings to you the trade-off of how it can be a distraction and it can infiltrate your ability to think in new innovative ways.... which this is also true.

I would say that highly intelligent people can be an asset for sure, but so can emotionally unintelligent, obtuse and abusive low IQ/EQ people.  They can show you areas where you need to work on yourself.  Highly intelligent socialization offers you new perspectives, new ideas to develop, and helps you expand your worldview, but low IQ/EQ people generally teach you how to not be a fool.  You can learn a lot from their repetitive actions that they never gain any traction with.  I used to get a lot more triggered by people like this, but after a few weeks/months I've been learning to pity their behaviours and to realize that they will generally never grow as people, there will only be the illusion of growth.  Narcissistically oriented socialization can teach you a lot about where your trigger points are and how to not react, where people might be testing your boundaries or exploiting your vulnerabilities, it can teach you that people can be downright messed up.

I would say, if you have not had this realization about low consciousness people, and how to utilize their nonsense for personal gain, that they can actually lower the intelligence of the people and the value of communities that they frequent by quite a lot.  If you don't have a way of buffering yourself, or using their actions as a gateway to self introspection, then they will bring you, and everyone else they come into contact with, down a notch.  So in that sense, Leo is right.  Socialization with people like this can indeed be harmful.

I suppose then the question begs, once you have learned to no longer act like a fool by watching the fool beat its head against a wall, and there isn't much more to gain from them, but they still have not learned to self-moderate their own actions, at which point does this become a destructive force for a community?  This form of socialization can become like an infectious mold.  You can see prime examples of this all across social media.

33 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

This is all illusionary and Leo himself knows this... additionally once you start making this distinction...it creates a fear. The more intelligent Leo becomes....the greater his fear of having that intelligence corrupted. It needs to be pure and pointed in one direction, unabated by distractions and petty drama of the chimps that surround him. 

I have this same fear.  I view myself as somewhat of a creative.  Mid-tier level, room for improvement, and if the outside world barrages me with too much toxicity, this can actually damage my creative process.  I imagine he is the same way.  It is true, if you are highly creative, that you need to keep people who value creativity above low-level stuff - like drama - in your circle.  Fools of all sorts do have a corruptive nature to them.  They can, completely unaware, and without care, bring you down.  But the fool, only being concerned about it's own little self, couldn't care less.

So my take is - use high-level socialization as a means of boosting your creativity.  Use low-level socialization as a means of seeing where you need to work on yourself, but once you're past that, let the low-level go, if at all possible.

Just my 2c take or leave.

[Tyler Robinson]

The people who consistently call others narcissists are narcissists themselves. The only thing they lack is a mirror. How obtuse. 

For a hammer, everything and everyone looks like a nail. 

Do they really try to let go? 

Not really. 

Low IQ folks almost always contradict themselves and always fail to see their own hypocrisy. 

Such hypocrites can cause too much drama in your life and so it's best to be free of them. 

I agree that such socializing can completely damage you, not just make you stupid. 

Once you learn how to stay away from such people completely, you can be away from their perilous ways and get time to focus on your growth. 

Also its always dumb people who try to compete. Intelligent people don't weaponize rivalry. 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Tyler Robinson

[Byun Sean]

I think its a good message. 

He's putting a flashy/ potentially offensive title to draw attention on purpose.

People are quick to assume this means he's just being arrogant and judging socialization negatively.

 

In reality he's making a very nuanced point to draw awareness on a lot of the drawbacks of socialization since the benefits are more obvious to todays culture.

For someone stuck in the limitations of socialization. This video could be the major turning point for their life to explore more soloist aspects of self actualization.

[Tyler Robinson]

1 minute ago, Byun Sean said:

I think its a good message. 

He's putting a flashy/ potentially offensive title to draw attention on purpose.

People are quick to assume this means he's just being arrogant and judging socialization negatively.

 

In reality he's making a very nuanced point to draw awareness on a lot of the drawbacks of socialization since the benefits are more obvious to todays culture.

For someone stuck in the limitations of socialization. This video could be the major turning point for their life to explore more soloist aspects of self actualization.

If you lived in self isolation for too long, it can hamper critical social skills and this shouldn't be taken for granted.. 

[Byun Sean]

6 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

If you lived in self isolation for too long, it can hamper critical social skills and this shouldn't be taken for granted.. 

Yes thats all very important to note, but that doesn't deny the drawbacks as well.

The solution is not to come up with a one size fits all saying everyone should always be 100 percent social or everyone should be isolated.

 

Rather we need to spread awareness about the potential benefits and drawbacks and help people choose consciously whats right for their development at the moment. Its all about conscious choice rather than compulsive.

I've personally observed in my own life I go through phases where I socialize a lot. And then it becomes beneficial to be alone more for the growth that Im doing. 

You can observe this alternating sequence in many developmental psychological models as well like Spiral Dynamics where the stages alternate between individual and communal focus as they progress.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Byun Sean

[Tyler Robinson]

5 minutes ago, Byun Sean said:

Yes thats all very important to note, but that doesn't deny the drawbacks as well.

The solution is not to come up with a one size fits all saying everyone should always be 100 percent social or everyone should be isolated.

 

Rather we need to spread awareness about the potential benefits and drawbacks and help people choose consciously whats right for their development at the moment. Its all about conscious choice rather than compulsive.

I've personally observed in my own life I go through phases where I socialize a lot. And then it becomes beneficial to be alone more for the growth that Im doing. 

You can observe this alternating sequence in many developmental psychological models as well like Spiral Dynamics where the stages alternate between individual and communal focus as they progress.

Yes I agree with you that alternating patterns of socializing and taking breaks definitely helps. Too much of anything is bad as they say. 

My question to you is - when do you feel like you want to go solo or take a break from socializing? What prompts you to do it? A specific situation? 

 

[TheOneReborn]

I like this new video. 

Anytime you engage in language you are distancing yourself from the Godhead. The joint venture we humans are engaged in with regards to common meaning making is the substrate against which the ego construct is born. 

[Razard86]

17 minutes ago, TheOneReborn said:

I like this new video. 

Anytime you engage in language you are distancing yourself from the Godhead. The joint venture we humans are engaged in with regards to common meaning making is the substrate against which the ego construct is born. 

You do realize...the ego was purposefully constructed right? You do realize that as long as you are saying something is better, or more profound, you are just playing the same guy right? You do realize that to have an up, you need a down, to have a left you need a right, so all labels are just relational. If everyone was Leo...there would be no Leo. You need different expressions to make the whole. 

All that is happening is Leo is becoming so in love with himself that now anything that isn't point in the same direction as him is less than. You can't say there are higher virtues....there are no higher virtues. That is a trap. Everything just is. As long as you think something is higher...you will continue to play the ego's game of attainment. There is nothing to attain. 

Go back and watch his radical implications of oneness. You will one day live your life as Leo. Leo will one day live his life as you. So picture how funny it is, to point to yourself and say...I have attained Super Intelligent levels far beyond blah blah blah. You are just playing an identity game with yourself. Is it fun? Sure the universe loves to play pretend.

Just don't get too lost in mirrors.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Razard86

[Danioover9000]

   Ladies and Gentlemen, every human being is individually unique, and do share similar and different types of intelligences, not to mention other developmental factors involved. Take for example this image:

 https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.adioma.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F03%2F9-types-of-intelligence-infographic.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.adioma.com%2F9-types-of-intelligence-infographic%2F&tbnid=FRhRpGZZKgoJ7M&vet=12ahUKEwjn1aSvhI76AhUGeBoKHTi_DbEQMygAegUIARDZAQ..i&docid=IhMklD9_nrSmTM&w=1000&h=998&q=multiple types of intelligence&ved=2ahUKEwjn1aSvhI76AhUGeBoKHTi_DbEQMygAegUIARDZAQ

   Plus, neurodivergence of each person's mind, flavors whatever you interpret spirituality as.

   However, socialization has its benefits, Bodhisattvas still and do social gatherings to share what insights they have to those willing to listen. 

[Loba]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

This is all illusionary and Leo himself knows this... additionally once you start making this distinction...it creates a fear. The more intelligent Leo becomes....the greater his fear of having that intelligence corrupted. It needs to be pure and pointed in one direction, unabated by distractions and petty drama of the chimps that surround him. 

I've been thinking a bit on this thread, on how the assumption that socialization with low-consciousness people can make you stupid, and I wanted to make a post on what I have learned from observing and integrating the affects of such people over the span of many years.  They can actually make you very smart!  I've learned from toxic partners, old friends and acquaintances through revisiting these situations and building upon what kind of person I want to be long-term.  I've been thinking about how they sometimes have a tendency of sapping the creativity and life force of the people around them, but they can also provide a lot of inspiration and opportunities for growth if you know where to look.  It literally depends on how you utilize their actions.  Are you going to react, and become a "mini-them" in turn, or will you sit back and let the show teach you something valuable about yourself?

I've also found a song with lyrics that reflect the concern people can have with this type of socialization and their long-term effects.

Let's get into the positives - over time I have learned through "negative" socialization  - 
 

• How to properly treat any future partners that I may have, how to create boundaries, what a lack of boundaries looks like and what it can look like when you don't let people go.  Basically, proper relational etiquette, give and take, without emotional sponging.  Through observation, I was able to gain key insights into how I might have treated partners in the past, what that looks like, and how I will do so going forward.  If you can see it play out without being a part of it, then you can sort of see your own reflection, which in a way makes things easier to pinpoint what and where you went wrong in your own life.
   
• How to deal with other people's, and your own emotional outbursts, gaslighting and deflection without becoming inundated with negativity.  Generally, you just need to retain your genuine sense of self, and if you can realize that the person is actually pushing their own actions off on you - then this can help to ease the illusion/drama - fools generally do not learn lessons, they just chronically deflect - and when you can see this, and expect it, and not to expect better behaviour but just to accept that this is what the game is, then it is no longer a "personal" thing with them.  They're just low consciousness, it would be like expecting a dog to learn algebra, that's not gunna happen.
   
• How to not be a chronic follower, and how to create your own genuine sense of self and identity - fools/low consciousness people tend to follow the crowd and pilfer ideas and inspiration from those around them.  They're generally not very original.  They affix certain trends or labels onto themselves and don't have a solid grasp of what it means to be a "real person".  You see this on social media a lot, where people are always following the latest gossip, latest trend, latest label, etc. and want these things to represent themselves.  When you learn that you can represent yourself through your own unique creativity, that it is a gift that not everyone has, this can help you see yourself as not just a follower, but someone with their own ideas and preferences.  
   
• How to be honest and open with yourself and with other people - many times low consciousness people aren't honest with people or themselves.  They either don't know how to self reflect or they don't have awareness into their actions.  When you see this in others, it can remind you that you need to always be an honest and open and truthful person and you can see the value in that, and what happens to people's inner worlds when they do not accept that as an authentic personal virtue.  It turns into a literal mold cavern.
   
• How to respect other people and public spaces, not to drink or smoke anymore - watching myself and other people smoke and drink helped me learn that this isn't a good way to socialize.  After negative interactions while on substances, I learned to create a boundary for myself not to interact with other people like that - sometimes I can be the repetitive fool, too, and it took me some time to learn this rule.  I've learned that public spaces are for everyone and that they should be respected.  So I don't share too much drama, I am trying to keep it more light, and I don't let my past affect me in the present day.
   
• How to take responsibility for myself - how to not be a chronic victim - I learned that chronic victimhood can be an excuse not to work on yourself.  When it's always someone else's fault and when people are always doing things to you, it can make you unable to act in your own best interests.  When you take responsibility for your emotional state, your creative space, and that you are now an adult that can make its own decisions without needing to fall down at every inconvenience, this becomes a very empowering psychological shift - one that has been the hardest for me to integrate, as I often tend to resort to returning to the ever-aggressive "it's them".  But realistically, if we live in a decent home, with a good source of income, and have a safe homelife, then there's no reason to ever feel like a victim.  That's taking the title away from people who are genuinely powerless and they deserve that energy more.

So you see, low consciousness people, if you use them as a mirror, they can teach you a lot about yourself - how to react, how to create boundaries - their lack of boundaries and stepping over yours can actually show you where you might have one that you didn't even know you had!  They're literal plot hole poppers in the fabric of your own reality, you can take their mistakes, learn from them through osmosis, and boom - you end up being less of a fool, it's great.  I highly recommend it. 
Some warnings though - low consciousness people can be a threat to not only themselves, but other people as well.  It's better to observe them from afar and not to get inundated with the nature of their lives.  Leave these interactions for high consciousness folks who value truth, creativity and new ideas.  I've had the misfortune of dating people who were a roller coaster, or having one-sided leachy-dramatic friendships - one fantastic thing is, if I had never met some of these people, I never would have found spirituality, or God and I would have never had a window into the level of self reflection that I do now.  Their actions were literal hidden blessings in disguise.  Most of them from the past are still living the same old same old, and they'll never know of God or universal love or any of that.  But without them, I wouldn't have been pressured to develop myself.

You can indeed learn to feed from the proverbial vampire. 

I don't have much to say on socialization with high consciousness people as their benefits are already very obvious.  You learn new ideas, concepts, ways of viewing the world, and generally they're safe to get close to - they're like walking, living brain massagers.  Leo is a good example of this type of person.  He offers a lot of intellectual value to as many people as he can.  Usually high consciousness people value the growth in others, they are creative, they are a positive for communities and they try to set people free as opposed to stifling their souls.

Look at this poor boy
All dressed up in white
Now how can he smile
With a face of all eyes
He wonders the night
Through smears and words snide
Spinning round and round
His precious mind
Like dizzy neon lights

Can anybody find out
Any other way
It's choking up his throat now
And dripping out his mouth
Like liquefied dying sparks
Like burning butterflies
These creatures are vampires
They're killing by the night
They're falling from the dead trees
To sihouette your life

He sees this white face
Brains lit grey and cold
Trees grows in their throats
And crystals ignored
His cellophane mask has filled with red smoke
Look through the holes in his eyes
And see his red righteous soul

Can anybody find out
Any other way
It's choking up his throat now
And dripping out his mouth
These creatures are vampires
They're killing by the night
They're hanging in the dead trees
Like burning butterflies

[Tyler Robinson]

It's generally the low consciousness people who like to demean others and call them fools. Because their fingers are always pointing outwards. 

Also low consciousness people think too highly of themselves. 

In fact people who are highly intelligent tend to doubt themselves very often and are generally humble because Humility is a very potent sign of a highly intelligent sane person 

 

It's the delusional types who always like to believe that they are somehow above the crowd. 

And these people copy others style and even follow them around but pretend like things are the other way round. 

They're like the housewives who constantly complain about how they don't like drama but exactly go looking for it by inserting themselves deliberately into other people's personal lives, stories and conflicts. 

Also low consciousness people love to gossip about other's lives and can't get enough of it. 

And when shit hits the fan and smacks them in their faces, they begin to backpedal and hide themselves in embarrassment because they simply can't have the Humility of being challenged on their drama. 

 

 

[Tyler Robinson]

Also low consciousness people have a "poor me" attitude. They take others disorders and attach it to themselves in an effort to play victim to a larger crowd. 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Tyler Robinson

[TheOneReborn]

@Razard86 on the one hand yes, there is love and truth to be had in being with others. But do you not realize that there are also social power dynamics and unconciousnes that is imposed through socialization? Do you not realize that "hanging out with friends" is a lot more than just "hanging out with friends"? 

Leo is engaging in more delusion, yes because he is speaking and thinking. Worse than speaking and thinking to yourself is doing so with others. 

Delusion is unavoidable but that doesn't mean that in the world of delusion there are not delusions which allow you to be closer to truth. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by TheOneReborn

[Byun Sean]

1 hour ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Yes I agree with you that alternating patterns of socializing and taking breaks definitely helps. Too much of anything is bad as they say. 

My question to you is - when do you feel like you want to go solo or take a break from socializing? What prompts you to do it? A specific situation? 

i'll just feel like self reflection, introspection. meditation, etc feels more beneficial in the moment. Its not that socialization feels bad per se. I can enjoy it too.

Its just that there is a different level of growth that can only blossom within a human being when they are alone sometimes. 

 

And Leo is right. There are tradeoffs to socialization. You cannot do solo spiritual work / introspection work as efficiently when you are engaging with the outside world constantly sometimes.

The chatter has to die down a bit and then the flower can blossom with more ease.

 

There have also been phases where I've felt called to socialize more to grow my social awareness or become more open.

Its all situational in the end.

[michaelcycle00]

You say this:

9 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

It's generally the low consciousness people who like to demean others and call them fools.

 

and then you go and type an entire paragraph demeaning "low-consciousness" people. 

10 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

It's the delusional types who always like to believe that they are somehow above the crowd.

You use the word "delusional" and these other people use the word "fool". Two sides of the same coin. 

 

14 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

In fact people who are highly intelligent tend to doubt themselves very often and are generally humble because Humility is a very potent sign of a highly intelligent sane person 

 

In fact, this is wrong. The reason highly intelligent people tend to doubt themselves is because they are usually uncomprehended all throughout their life and develop that as a coping mechanism, which is just insecurity. I can agree with the humility part when speaking of a "sane" person, but even narcissists can be intellectually gifted. 

Also, I'm pretty sure @Razard86 is referring to normal day-to-day socialization. Not one in Mensa's private headquarters. Talking to average people has done jack shit for me.

[Tyler Robinson]

Low consciousness people are very predatory. Dealing with them is a source of lifetime of torment. Once you have the misfortune of running into them, there's no catching break. They'll always hound you and make sure you suffer, that's why I call them predatory. They're the apex predator in the crowd and they will use every opportunity to sadistically abuse and exploit you. 

These predatory people have a Karen mentality where they simply cannot have someone who is trying to go about with their lives. They will call 911 on a black man who is doing nothing but simply standing in a park. Such predatory people exploit those who are weak or vulnerable in order to play victim every chance they get. They actually act like victims but in reality they act too entitled and privileged and unable to see their entitlement because they are narcissistic as hell. 

They will destroy your life by constantly hounding you. They will find you wherever you are and look for an opportunity to attack your Vulnerability. They will scour through your personal life to find that one piece of information that they can use against you, fucking predators. They are like child abusers and use your naive innocence to abuse you and when they are confronted they will go back to their victim playing nonsense. 

They will make a mountain out of a molehill. And this is a fundamental characteristic of these low consciousness predators.. They will invent stories upon stories to set you up and when you actually look into the details, you'll realize there was hardly anything that such a big fuss was made out of. 

How to deal with low consciousness freaky predators who are always hell bent on ruining your peace of mind - 

First is that you learn nothing from them other than that you were too naive to trust them in the first place. That's always your first and only fault. This is probably the biggest learning lesson. 

You can't simply avoid these people since you don't know how to detect or screen them in a crowd. 

But you could still use some ways to deal with these people and their frustrating nonsense if you are dealing with one. 

 

Keep an eye out for the following toxic traits:

• Jittery, nervous energy.
• Constant whining and complaining
• Clinginess and dependency
• Criticism, usually aimed everywhere
• Negative or cynical worldview
• And in extreme cases, abuse

 

 

• The most important point here to remember is how these people constantly whine about the same thing or person over and over and can never get over it. They engage in constant complaining and whining. We all have our down days. But when it comes to toxic people, the blues are a constant rain cloud. And they want everyone to be just as wet and miserable as them. If you never see emotions other than anger, sadness, and jealousy, it is best to steer clear of that personality. 

Low consciousness people can never be happy for others even if that other person has long moved on and doesn't want anything to do with them. But such low consciousness predators simply cannot see others moving on or being happy. This is a hallmark of such destructive behavior 

• Trust your gut-  if someone makes you upset and uncomfortable, make some space.  You can see it, even feel it, in your interaction. Once you get the feeling of awkwardness around these people, just believe yourself and move away. You can always tell something is off and you know when something is off, and you know to avoid such people. One indicator is that they will suddenly ghost you out of nowhere and you'll be left clueless. The problem with such people they can never have relationships with true emotions. That's why it's so easy for them to be so cold towards you, they are so hollow from inside and they lack empathy for your emotions and its totally visible in their narcissistic ghosting behavior. 

These people hardly ever change, even if they do, they simply do it for social approval.. They never own up how they screw up things in a dynamic. It's always the other person's fault. 

• They are very narcissistic so they will find every opportunity to one up you. Instead of trying to collaborate with you they will engage in stupid toxic rivalry with you. Because for such people stupid rivalry is more important than learning something new. 
• These people have nothing unique or original about themselves. They closely stalk and follow members of their own species to even copy their writing style or their disorders. They constantly have this poor me attitude and they will always find something new to add to their poor me arsenal. They will never call themselves a narcissist because it hurts their pride. Anything that makes them look like a proper victim to the public is actually good.  Do you know someone who finds the darkness in everything? Much like your parents on Thanksgiving, misery loves company. These people will always complain about something, never see the good in anything, and claim they hate everything. It's exhausting just thinking about it, which is why they'll try to drag you into their little pity party. 

  People with very negative worldview will often be competitive about their misery, trying to outdo other people's sadness. This is the worst.

  When you talk about your problems, they go back to talking about their problems trying to outcompete you. Again the vulnerable narcissist.. They are always looking for people to pity meanwhile acting like they are trying to empower others. Watch out for people who constantly, even gleefully, talk about their failures and sadness. Anyone who criticizes the failures of others, or seems overly cynical, might have a toxic personality worth avoiding.

 

• They will never take responsibility for hurting you. Forget about closure or apologies, they will simply come up with excuses like they were drunk or they were high on drugs for all the abuse and pain and suffering they put you through. 

It's like a woman who rams her car into another vehicle carrying a child and ends up hurting the baby and her "poor me" excuse is that she was simply drunk instead of taking responsibility for the hurt and damage they caused. But their sense of entitlement is so severe that they can scarcely comprehend the amount of damage they cause to other people, instead they will try to find a way to escape their accountability and get away with it with lame fucking excuses like "being drunk." it's always about how they are so innocent. 

• They will constantly prey on your flaws, your mistakes, your scars, your wounds, they will rummage through even the most minor insignificant details of your life to find something on you and paint you as a target so that you get humiliated by everyone and they can sit back and watch the whole thing go down meanwhile pretending like they don't like drama. This is like a person who watches a house burn up in flames, comes around and pours gasoline and immediately runs away and comes back and makes it look like they had nothing to do with it. They are always the prime participants in a drama but when it gets too much especially when it begins to come in their direction, they begin to backpedal their way out of it. Basically they are shit starters but always claim they had no part in it. 

You can never be Vulnerable or open to them about your flaws. They will use this as an opportunity to put you down and basically prey on you so that you suffer. Instead of being forgiving, they will relentlessly use your flaws to prey on your sanctity. 

• They are never forgiving. You can see this video that explains this kind of Vulnerable toxic narcissism. If you run into a problem with such people a year ago, they will use something that happened over a long period of time, be totally unforgiving and constantly bring up that and maintain a permanent grudge against you and use that to attack you over and over. They just cannot ever give up.. They can never forgive. Like Grande suggests, they will victimize you over something that is insignificant and happened over a long time ago and use that as a weapon against you to continue tormenting you. Like I said they are vicious predators. 

Feel lucky and celebrate if you are free from their vampirish clutches.. They never let go. 

The video that explains how unforgiving these vicious predators are.