Are all sexual fantasies a form of trauma?

[petar8p]

3 hours ago, integral said:

@Tyler Robinson @Loba I wrote the bellow points a bit blunt as it was the easiest to get it out of my head, but I say it will all do love. 

1. This form of sex is therapy for one side, many people (with feminine nature) are using sex as a experience for inner healing and equating it with a partners bonding or trust but have you asked yourself what your partners experience is or was? It seems your overly focused on the experience your getting from it. 
2. This might be a reason woman fall in love when having sex and men dont, because the man is not engaged in love sex, they are simply fucking. To make the man fall in love with you ask your self how to satisfy there deep needs not just your own. 
3. I am secure and am not surrendering or healing with a partner when engaging this way, so these role plays are to satisfy there needs not mine. Your fantasies are being met, a process of facing your fears with a partner and there can be bonding for both sides happening but there is so much more to it then this. Its like sex with training wheels!
4. That's the sex you need in your developmental journey and not the sex i need. Once healing is done, these levels of sex are repetitive, boring and unfulfilling.
5. Chocking my partner while they say they love me is bonding and can be emotionally deep, I feel connected and its wonderful, but that's not how i communicate love to someone naturally (chocking is unnatural to me), we are not getting to the root of what love is and the emotional bond, all these roles play are a distraction from the real underling intimacy. 
6. There is a clear gap between the level of sex happing with tantric and these other types. 
7. Is chocking really the same as gently but firmly holding your head in my hands and kissing your forehead? When i express love i project outwards the intention of loving that person and that projection does not insight any violence inside of me = chocking/slapping. The emotion that a man experiences with chocking/slapping or anything of this nature is lust. Would I love a dog that way? No because it is not the love language a dog can understand. Violence as a form of love is a distraction from the real thing. 
8. These fantasies are a primitive component. Non of them can be used outside of the bedroom because its just violence with out sexual arousal. 
9. Tantric removes these components and goes to the root of it all, pure love, often sex isn't involved at all. The reason is sex isn't nessisariy for love making. When love making and sex can be stimulated LOVINGLY at the same time it is a spiritual experience. 
10. Try taking the sexual arousal out of the equation with these fantasies and there is nothing loving about it. 

Those are some boring points. There's nothing wrong with animalistic behaviour in bed and it's fun.

 

On 9/11/2022 at 6:40 AM, Tyler Robinson said:

You aren't laughing while it's happening because then there is no real fun, you have outed yourself already. 

I think it should be ok to burst in laugh if it happens.. Just not as mocking ofc.

[integral]

6 hours ago, petar8p said:

Those are some boring points. There's nothing wrong with animalistic behaviour in bed and it's fun.

I know ive been doing that my entire life, what im saying is there is a higher level. 

Notice how no one understands the point im making because they think the sex they are having is the highest level lol. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by integral

[Loba]

I'm able to enjoy kink and to make love, too.  I like both and have enjoyed both - kink in fantasy, love irl.  In fact, if I don't love a guy, then my sex is off.  It's kind of terrible, actually.  I can't get into it, I don't feel stimulated.  It takes me quite a while to get used to a new partner, so one night stands don't cut it, I need like 3-6 months of really getting to know someone in that way to feel comfortable enough to shine, but when I was with my ex for a great period of time and could shine, he said that at times I was one of the best he ever had.  We never did kink, we just had deep, bonding sex.  It was one of the only things we were able to connect on for some reason.  We just had the right flow.

I would look him deep in the eyes, snuggle his face, nuzzle his nose and cheek, kiss is face, his neck.  I'd hold him as closely as I could.  We usually had a good time.  We could never find a way to bridge the gap between our different personalities, and so sexual communication was one of the ways were everything was vulnerable and naked and we understood one another, where neither of us were messed up, just two people who wanted to have a deep and emotional experience.  It was a lot of fun.

But that doesn't negate that kink is also a big part of my life, too, now more than then.  I haven't actually engaged in it, sans one time in a foursome with a friend and two guys, it was a bdsm thing - just one time, but most of this has just been in the realm of fantasy, exploration in that manner, but I have found a lot of inspiration, creativity, and self love and peace through getting to know myself on this level, too.  I feel closer to, if I were to have had a different outcome in life, that I would have taken on more experiences like this and that they would have been a vehicle for understanding aspects of my psychology and my soul on an entirely different level.

Vanilla has it's place, so does kink, it can be nice to switch it up a little, you know?  Have both.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Loba

[petar8p]

2 hours ago, Loba said:

I'm able to enjoy kink and to make love, too.  I like both and have enjoyed both - kink in fantasy, love irl.  In fact, if I don't love a guy, then my sex is off.  It's kind of terrible, actually.  I can't get into it, I don't feel stimulated.  It takes me quite a while to get used to a new partner, so one night stands don't cut it, I need like 3-6 months of really getting to know someone in that way to feel comfortable enough to shine, but when I was with my ex for a great period of time and could shine, he said that at times I was one of the best he ever had.  We never did kink, we just had deep, bonding sex.  It was one of the only things we were able to connect on for some reason.  We just had the right flow.

I would look him deep in the eyes, snuggle his face, nuzzle his nose and cheek, kiss is face, his neck.  I'd hold him as closely as I could.  We usually had a good time.  We could never find a way to bridge the gap between our different personalities, and so sexual communication was one of the ways were everything was vulnerable and naked and we understood one another, where neither of us were messed up, just two people who wanted to have a deep and emotional experience.  It was a lot of fun.

But that doesn't negate that kink is also a big part of my life, too, now more than then.  I haven't actually engaged in it, sans one time in a foursome with a friend and two guys, it was a bdsm thing - just one time, but most of this has just been in the realm of fantasy, exploration in that manner, but I have found a lot of inspiration, creativity, and self love and peace through getting to know myself on this level, too.  I feel closer to, if I were to have had a different outcome in life, that I would have taken on more experiences like this and that they would have been a vehicle for understanding aspects of my psychology and my soul on an entirely different level.

Vanilla has it's place, so does kink, it can be nice to switch it up a little, you know?  Have both.

Thanks for sharing. There's not a lot of places when woman shares her her true stories. 

 

I agree that there's place for boths and one isn't above other, it's about what suits you at the moment and what you get fulfilment off. 

[integral]

12 hours ago, Loba said:

I would look him deep in the eyes, snuggle his face, nuzzle his nose and cheek, kiss is face, his neck.  I'd hold him as closely as I could.

Affection not tantra. 

Tantra is the renunciation of pleasure to only experience love.

There are degrees to love like there are degrees to ones relationships with sex.

Ive burned through the karma of pleasure and lust, im ready for the next thing now. Healing/developing with sex looks different at different stages of development. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by integral

[petar8p]

2 hours ago, integral said:

Ive burned through the karma of pleasure and lust, im ready for the next thing now. Healing/developing with sex looks different at different stages of development.

Cool, let us be at our stage.

 

?

[integral]

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by integral

[integral]

DEVELOPMENT OF SEXUALITY

There are five general levels of sexual exchange between partners that are a direct reflection of their physical, psychological, and spiritual health.197 Similar to the unfolding of the spiritual realizations outlined above, these levels can be experienced as a temporary state or become permanently accessible state-stages through practice with a partner.

1. REPRESSED SEXUALITY In this lowest stage, the body and sex are viewed with suspicion as something negative and dirty. Usually driven by shame, guilt, and fear that originate from childhood trauma and abuse, adults at this level either avoid sexual activities altogether, perform out of duty in a dissociated way(with closed eyes, under the sheets, in the dark), or develop forms of obsessive-compulsive disorders around their sexuality that can lead to sexual addiction and other abusive behaviors. Oral sex or similarly playful sensual activities are usually out of the question for people at this stage, where modesty is confused with shame.

2. FUCKING In the fucking stage, sexuality is instinctual, self-serving, and limited to the physical, hedonistic pleasures of the body. Sex partners tend to objectify each other without seeking a deeper personal connection. They want to have fun, “get off,” and don’t care much about their partner’s emotional needs, feelings, or sexual desires. There is no shame or guilt, and “everything goes,” which can be confused with the higher, unrestrained forms of transcendent sexuality (see below), which is another form of the pre/trans fallacy (see above). In this stage, males often dominate and manipulate females into having intercourse and to engage in hurtful practices such as anal sex or deep-throating/gagging. In the fucking stage, everything is seen as OK, as long as the partner cooperates or at least does not call the police. Rarely is there a prior conversation about consent, sexual preferences, sexual history, sexually transmitted diseases (STDs), no-no’s, expectations for a monogamous commitment, or possible consequences such as emotional/sexual dependence or pregnancy. Women at this stage often have an unspoken expectation of their partner to make an exclusive commitment after intercourse and feel used and abused if he moves on. They may also become intentionally pregnant without their partner’s consent to “hook him” and/or to collect child support and social security payments. Once the excitement of the newness vanishes, couples in this stage often lose interest in sex with each other and stop having sex or seek a new fuck buddy.198

3. HAVING SEX In this stage, mindfulness comes into play. Sex becomes a conscious choice between a couple that has a mutual understanding and agreement about the implications and consequences of being sexual. Having sex is seen as a beautiful and important activity which brings two people together and provides many physical and emotional health benefits.199 There is usually an agreement for monogamy or openness about multiple lovers, and partners try to find the time and energy to be sexual with each other. Sex partners in this stage go beyond the pure physical aspects (fucking), and see each other as conscious subjects. They focus on pleasing the other within the context of individual boundaries, rather than trying to openly express and meet their own sexual needs, desires, and fantasies. This leads to sexuality at the lowest common denominator that often leaves both partners unfulfilled over time. Relationship difficulties such as power struggles or emotional withdrawal tend to be carried into the bedroom, but don’t get resolved there. Instead of working on deeper issues to improve their sexual relationship, couples in this stage sometimes try new positions or locations, engage in role playing, apply sex-toys, watch porn movies, or join swinger clubs to keep their sex life interesting. Unless they evolve to the next higher stage of sexual development, merely having sex will eventually turn stale, die completely, or become so difficult that their partnership ends when one of them falls in love/lust with a new sex partner.200

4. LOVE MAKING In the love making stage, a couple’s sexuality becomes the expression of their genuine love, mutual acceptance, deep emotional intimacy, and the joy of being together. Body, mind, and heart are integrated in their lovemaking which is no longer just “a thing that couples do,” but an expression of who they are as sexual human beings. No special effort to find the time or energy to be sexual needs to be made by them. Their lovemaking is a life-giving and rejuvenating affirmation of their bond and the depth of their connection. They are open to talking about their desires and exploring all forms of healthy sexual play that bring pleasure and deepen their union. They naturally stay in verbal and non-verbal communication(eye contact) with each other during their love making. Sex at this level is not used to cover up conflicts, to keep score, or to manipulate each other. Instead, sexual and emotional blocks that may arise are worked out between them, and therapeutic help is sought if they can’t resolve the problems that they face.201

5. TRANSCENDENT SEX This stage represents all advanced sacred or tantric practices that lead to spiritual state experiences through sexual union (such as Kundalini),202 that transcend the lovers’ sense of separation from each other and the universe. This kind of sexuality emerges as a stage between partners that share a deep soul connection, enjoy a high level of physical, emotional, and relationship health, and have reached an advanced stage of spiritual development (see above) with the ability for intense presence and full surrender. Spiritual practices such as meditation, partner-yoga, and ecstatic dance are often interwoven in this form of lovemaking. Partners who consciously engage in transcendent sexuality allocate ample quality time for their lovemaking (instead of waiting until they are in the mood); create sacred space in their home or away (think of a tastefully decorated warm room, soft sheets, various sized/shaped pillows, dimmed lights, scented candles, burning incense, veils around the bed, oils and lotions, and soft sacred music); and co-create a wide range of experiences through rituals such as sharing sensual food (think strawberries, chocolate, ice-cream, etc.), eye gazing, erotic dance, synchronized conscious breathing into the seven chakras, reciting of mantras, reading poems,203 alternate giving and receiving of arousing touch and massage, playfulness with objects (think feathers, boas, silk, flower petals, ice cubes), gentle intercourse, or unrestrained ravaging (that may be falsely interpreted as a form of rape).204 A common position for deep tantric connection is for the man to sit cross-legged (or on a chair) and the woman on top of him, allowing them to meet each other face to-face as opposites and equals.205 The goal of transcendental sexuality is not solely to pleasure and to reach orgasms, but to move (Kundalini) energy up the spine or through the seven chakras, and to deepen the soul connection between the lovers that leads them to consciously experience the divine, instead of unconsciously exclaiming “oh my God” during a short orgasmic release.206 This requires the ability for men to delay or avoid orgasm, and/or to have orgasms without ejaculating by squeezing their PC muscle.207 Often, deeply rooted emotional blocks that are embedded in the body and inhibit a further spiritual awakening get revealed and can be released through transcendental sex.

 

From the book: Integral Relationships by Martin Ucik

Edited September 14, 2022 by integral

[Tudo]

@integral Yes. According to Freud childhood traumas can affect/ create sexual fantasies.

I personally find role-playing (strap-on) stuff disgusting. I realized that most people that have this kind of fetish usually are really sexually frustrated and emotionally unstable.  

Edited September 15, 2022 by Tudo

[puporing]

On 10/09/2022 at 9:54 PM, integral said:

the "purest" form of sex

You have no expectations of the person before, during, and after the fact, just whatever occurs mutually/voluntarily, that would make it more pure. 

[D2sage]

Well, most guys have masturbated to porn since they were 9 years old or younger.

Too much porn has damaged their sexuality.

Of course they want domination, bondage, rape fantasies, voyager, choking, sensory deprivation, humiliation, sugar mamas when they have seen and masturbated to porno movies like that.

They need those fantasies to get hard.

Edited September 15, 2022 by D2sage

[ivankiss]

Yes, it's all because mommy and daddy didn't love me. Now I must tie girls down.

[something_else]

20 hours ago, integral said:

 

I've seen similar graphs before and I have no idea what information this kind of graph is supposed to convey. Literally everything below the top X axis contributes nothing.

[something_else]

2 hours ago, D2sage said:

Well, most guys have masturbated to porn since they were 9 years old or younger.

Dude that aint normal. I think I was like 14 the first time I looked at porn

[Vajra]

@integral hey. Fantasies are beautiful. It seems to me that they are something to be played out. Some of our conditioning and tendencies go by expression. If there is Integrity in the relationship, these fantasies will come up perfectly in both partners, so that there is not one enjoying and another just doing it as a chore... Oh God...

When they are played out, at some point they come to a natural end. At that moment the thing is to let them go. 

What is Pure Sex? There is no such 'object'. Pure Sex is that sex, which is done in Integrity. However it looks at a given moment.

Much Fun and Pleasure ?

[integral]

9 hours ago, puporing said:

You have no expectations of the person before, during, and after the fact, just whatever occurs mutually/voluntarily, that would make it more pure. 

So its possible to have 5. TRANSCENDENT SEX with all these kinks and fantasies at play? I was under the impression they would naturally become less appealing. Everything is love and if someone's language of love is to be caned ? then that's beautiful the way it is. 

Anecdotally I'm seeing a lot of people replying with plenty of trauma pasts and plenty of kinks, while I have no trauma in childhood and no kinks. Meaning the love language that best communicates to them is colored by different life experiences.

Edited September 15, 2022 by integral

[integral]

3 hours ago, Vajra said:

What is Pure Sex? There is no such 'object'. Pure Sex is that sex, which is done in Integrity. However it looks at a given moment.

Reasonable , the thing is when high on psychedelics or kundalini energy the experience naturally becomes motionless or flows with the river. Id say personal preferences can disappear and fall in favor of more gentle means of engagement both body, mind and soul. 

[integral]

4 hours ago, something_else said:

On 9/14/2022 at 11:07 AM, integral said:

I've seen similar graphs before and I have no idea what information this kind of graph is supposed to convey. Literally everything below the top X axis contributes nothing.

Its one map that can be derived from the bellow meta-map.  

Edited September 15, 2022 by integral

[something_else]

1 minute ago, integral said:

Its one map that can be derived from the bellow meta-map.  

I know but you've missed my point  This entire style of graph appears useless. It conveys no information.

[integral]

5 minutes ago, something_else said:

I know but you've missed my point  This entire style of graph appears useless. It conveys no information.

Your right lol, it might be useful if someone filled in each circle with a short description.