Are all sexual fantasies a form of trauma?

[Loba]

You know, something I found interesting...
This past month I have been exploring my kinks, after the previous months going through the fear of death and working on looking into my childhood, this just seems like the best next step.

And before I started this journey, I had some repression, some judgements towards certain sexualities and so forth, but the more I work on and deal with my own desires and fantasies, the less I judge others for theirs.  To the point where, as long as it is consensual, I don't really give a rats arse about what other people are doing in their sex lives.  It was something I pinpointed in myself when I got "triggered" in a thread about a sexuality that I personally didn't feel was "right".  After having my bullshit opinions on it, I kind of took a backseat and let the behavior sink in a while until I could come back to it later - and now that I have, it's no big deal.

I think that people who think sex is on some level, or scale of how it should be, people who judge others or are concerned with such things probably have areas of their own repression.  I'm gunna call it - king wears no clothes - it's the people who have ideas about other people's orientations that are the ones who are damaged, not the people freely, and happily expressing who they are.

Just my 2c take or leave.

[Proserpina]

I agree with Loba. 

What I stated was an observation.  In no way do I believe those who have sexual fantasies (like me) are inferior or less developed.  In tantra fantasy would crop up, sometimes more often than not and that was cool too.  It is inclusive and allowing,  not exclusive.  I had sexual fantasies during my kundalini awakening.  At times the full inclusion would look like exclusion.  You can't really tell on the surface what is tantra and what is not.  It is a depth to the experience. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Proserpina

[integral]

36 minutes ago, Loba said:

I think that people who think sex is on some level, or scale of how it should be, people who judge others or are concerned with such things probably have areas of their own repression.  I'm gunna call it - king wears no clothes - it's the people who have ideas about other people's orientations that are the ones who are damaged, not the people freely, and happily expressing who they are.

Agreed, now build on top of this idea and you'll reach my perspective , take even more into consideration. 

We can accept them all non-judgmentally. Beautiful as they are. Now from that place we can begin making distinctions between them. 

There is a lot of projection/misinterpretations happening here. Im not judging anything or saying one level is better then another. Never have been. 

I'm trying to say things tend to naturally converge to something. When under the effects of psychedelics the love is far more direct and fantasies are no longer needed for that "extra" boost. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by integral

[petar8p]

24 minutes ago, integral said:

I'm trying to say things tend to naturally converge to something.

What's the basis for this claim?

 

24 minutes ago, integral said:

When under the effects of psychedelics the love is far more direct and fantasies are no longer needed for that "extra" boost. 

Cause psychedelics boost the shit out of your experience already and launches you into altered states of consciousness.

 

You can look into a flower and be amazed for 30 minutes, which probably won't happen to you in day-day life very often. Of course sex will feel ultra amazing. It makes ordinary into extraordinary experience, which is its blessing and a lesson in and of itself.

 

You never wrote it directly, but from the way you're communicating about this it seems one way of making sex for you is above other and a sign of trauma work/spiritual development which many of us don't agree with here.

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by petar8p

[Proserpina]

On 12/09/2022 at 11:14 PM, Proserpina said:

I’m interested in anything but vanilla sex. 

But during my major awakening lasting many months (kundalini awakening) intimate, vanilla sex became fascinating to me and replaced all my fetishes.  

Then it left when I eventually returned to normal. 

Correction: I remember I had sexual fantasies now.  Rape, bondage, wolf sex. It's just that it replaced my fantasies at the peak.  All inclusion looked like exclusion.  

Edited September 15, 2022 by Proserpina

[Tudo]

1 hour ago, Loba said:

You know, something I found interesting...
This past month I have been exploring my kinks, after the previous months going through the fear of death and working on looking into my childhood, this just seems like the best next step.

And before I started this journey, I had some repression, some judgements towards certain sexualities and so forth, but the more I work on and deal with my own desires and fantasies, the less I judge others for theirs.  To the point where, as long as it is consensual, I don't really give a rats arse about what other people are doing in their sex lives.  It was something I pinpointed in myself when I got "triggered" in a thread about a sexuality that I personally didn't feel was "right".  After having my bullshit opinions on it, I kind of took a backseat and let the behavior sink in a while until I could come back to it later - and now that I have, it's no big deal.

I think that people who think sex is on some level, or scale of how it should be, people who judge others or are concerned with such things probably have areas of their own repression.  I'm gunna call it - king wears no clothes - it's the people who have ideas about other people's orientations that are the ones who are damaged, not the people freely, and happily expressing who they are.

Just my 2c take or leave.

Yes, but It's important to remember that there are types and types of sexual fantasies.I have some too. But I think some extreme sexual fantasies like scatting and strapon can really indicate mental health problems. Some people can even have sexual fantasies about having sex with animals. Yuck

And I think rape fantasy for women is not a extreme one by the way.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Tudo

[LordFall]

On 11/9/2022 at 0:07 AM, integral said:

I think because they seek self gratification and pleasure and not unity. 

Are you sure that you don't have sexual shame and spiritual ideology limiting beliefs? I call what you're talking about pseudo-spirituality, over-emphasizing what sounds like high consciousness, pure, uniting, etc. 

Unity is much more radical than two people being intimate with each other and being sensitive and opening up about their dreams or whatever meme you would make it out to be. Sure, all that stuff's great but it's a shallow form of what true unity would look like. If you consider your identity to be a formless soul experiencing this form-based physical experience then sharing that physical experience with other entities that you enjoy and reaching the boundaries that this physical reality can offer us together is a truly special and unique experience.

You don't have to enjoy kinky sex/bondage and the theory that it's born out of trauma is an interesting one worth exploring but to categorize is as shallow, hedonistic, and unspiritual is a rookie mistake. BDSM and violent sex require a lot of mutual trust, understanding, and knowledge of each other and can be a very loving and uniting experience. It isn't always but it definitely can be. 

[something_else]

4 hours ago, integral said:

Im not judging anything or saying one level is better then another. Never have been 

Chances are if you have to say this, there's projection/judgement happening

A lot of your posts are quite subtly placing yourself above others, with hints of judgement

Quote

Anecdotally I'm seeing a lot of people replying with plenty of trauma pasts and plenty of kinks, while I have no trauma in childhood and no kinks. Meaning the love language that best communicates to them is colored by different life experiences.

This is very flawed thinking. "I have no trauma and I'm not kinky therefore all kinks come from trauma"

Edited September 15, 2022 by something_else

[Tyler Robinson]

My ex partners were into kink just as much as I want but they had no history of trauma 

Millions of people have sexual kinks. It's just a random biological thing like sexual orientation. 

On the flip side, it could be that you have never sufficiently explored your own kinks and this could be in part due to religious shaming and suppression, especially if you're raised in either catholic or Mormon kind of families those families tend to shame kinks. In my experience. 

Kinks tend to have their origin in puberty and the way you used to arouse yourself during those periods of your life, especially if you were a teen reading romantic novels or fantasies, those can serve as breeding grounds for your future kinks. 

For example, I used to read a ton of romantic novels during my puberty days that involved capture fantasy etc. So I developed Dom sub rape fantasy related  fetishes. 

There's nothing special or psychologically unusual or sinister about it. It's simply established mental patterns that arouse you, which you created on your own depending on how you handled your arousals in your puberty years. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Tyler Robinson

[petar8p]

4 hours ago, Tyler Robinson said:

My ex partners were into kink just as much as I want but they had no history of trauma 

Millions of people have sexual kinks. It's just a random biological thing like sexual orientation. 

On the flip side, it could be that you have never sufficiently explored your own kinks and this could be in part due to religious shaming and suppression, especially if you're raised in either catholic or Mormon kind of families those families tend to shame kinks. In my experience. 

Kinks tend to have their origin in puberty and the way you used to arouse yourself during those periods of your life, especially if you were a teen reading romantic novels or fantasies, those can serve as breeding grounds for your future kinks. 

For example, I used to read a ton of romantic novels during my puberty days that involved capture fantasy etc. So I developed Dom sub rape fantasy related  fetishes. 

There's nothing special or psychologically unusual or sinister about it. It's simply established mental patterns that arouse you, which you created on your own depending on how you handled your arousals in your puberty years. 

I got a boner from reading this lol. You know how to write ✍️

[Tyler Robinson]

1 minute ago, petar8p said:

I got a boner from reading this lol. You know how to write ✍️

Then you should not read my journals. You'll get a lot of that everyday. Just saying. 

 

[petar8p]

3 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Then you should not read my journals. You'll get a lot of that everyday. Just saying. 

Yeah that's exactly how reverse psychology works. Hopefully I don't send any PM's.

[Tyler Robinson]

1 minute ago, petar8p said:

Yeah that's exactly how reverse psychology works. Hopefully I don't send any PM's.

Yea don't send dick pics and I'll be ok. 

Thanks. 

 

[integral]

Well i don't know how to really make sense of this, maybe we need some good examples.

What kind of sex is @Leo Gura having? Have you reached Transcendent sex? If so what does it look like? 

Quote

5. TRANSCENDENT SEX This stage represents all advanced sacred or tantric practices that lead to spiritual state experiences through sexual union (such as Kundalini),202 that transcend the lovers’ sense of separation from each other and the universe. This kind of sexuality emerges as a stage between partners that share a deep soul connection, enjoy a high level of physical, emotional, and relationship health, and have reached an advanced stage of spiritual development (see above) with the ability for intense presence and full surrender. Spiritual practices such as meditation, partner-yoga, and ecstatic dance are often interwoven in this form of lovemaking. Partners who consciously engage in transcendent sexuality allocate ample quality time for their lovemaking (instead of waiting until they are in the mood); create sacred space in their home or away (think of a tastefully decorated warm room, soft sheets, various sized/shaped pillows, dimmed lights, scented candles, burning incense, veils around the bed, oils and lotions, and soft sacred music); and co-create a wide range of experiences through rituals such as sharing sensual food (think strawberries, chocolate, ice-cream, etc.), eye gazing, erotic dance, synchronized conscious breathing into the seven chakras, reciting of mantras, reading poems,203 alternate giving and receiving of arousing touch and massage, playfulness with objects (think feathers, boas, silk, flower petals, ice cubes), gentle intercourse, or unrestrained ravaging (that may be falsely interpreted as a form of rape).204 A common position for deep tantric connection is for the man to sit cross-legged (or on a chair) and the woman on top of him, allowing them to meet each other face to-face as opposites and equals.205 The goal of transcendental sexuality is not solely to pleasure and to reach orgasms, but to move (Kundalini) energy up the spine or through the seven chakras, and to deepen the soul connection between the lovers that leads them to consciously experience the divine, instead of unconsciously exclaiming “oh my God” during a short orgasmic release.206 This requires the ability for men to delay or avoid orgasm, and/or to have orgasms without ejaculating by squeezing their PC muscle.207 Often, deeply rooted emotional blocks that are embedded in the body and inhibit a further spiritual awakening get revealed and can be released through transcendental sex.

 

[integral]

18 hours ago, Tyler Robinson said:

There's nothing special or psychologically unusual or sinister about it. It's simply established mental patterns that arouse you, which you created on your own depending on how you handled your arousals in your puberty years. 

Is arousal needed for sex?

Is arousal needed for conversation?

Is arousal needed for love?

Is arousal needed for intimacy? 

Can we have sex with out the desire to maximising pleasure and orgasm? What about a different approach? 

Edited September 16, 2022 by integral

[Tyler Robinson]

3 hours ago, integral said:

Is arousal needed for sex?

Is arousal needed for conversation?

Is arousal needed for love?

Is arousal needed for intimacy? 

Can we have sex with out the desire to maximising pleasure and orgasm? What about a different approach? 

Impossible. You need arousal..

17 hours ago, petar8p said:

I got a boner from reading this lol. You know how to write ✍️

 

[Matt23]

I don't think the kinks you mentioned are necessarily from trauma, per-se.  Can just be psychological, perhaps more so psychological stuff from our evolutionary past (more power dynamics, life n' death, stuff) that maybe it's healthy to just own in a safe way.

They could also be trauma related.  

Also, the word "trauma" could be loaded.  Like, most people would probably consider being raped traumatic.  But would you also consider parts of the general human condition traumatic as well?  For example, having a loved one die, various social fears, just the inherent stresses that come from trying to sustain a living practically, etc..  I'd prefer not to label those things as trauma, but it sure ain't always nice n' pretty.

[Tyler Robinson]

12 hours ago, integral said:

Is arousal needed for sex?

 

Quote

Is arousal needed for conversation?

 

Quote

Is arousal needed for love?

 

 

Quote

Is arousal needed for intimacy? 

 

 

Quote

Can we have sex with out the desire to maximising pleasure and orgasm? What about a different approach? 

Yea it's vanilla sex. But when you truly love a partner at least in the moment, you want to give them maximum pleasure. You not only want them to orgasm you want them to orgasm multiple times. 

Personally I won't be satisfied until I see my partner orgasming to the max and orgasming even more. It makes me crazy  happy to see the guy orgasm multiple times. 

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Tyler Robinson

[Tyler Robinson]

3 hours ago, integral said:

Is arousal needed for sex?

Yes of course. 

3 hours ago, integral said:

Is arousal needed for conversation?

But the conversation needs to involve foreplay pre-sex. 

3 hours ago, integral said:

Is arousal needed for love?

Define love. Love and sex are not the same thing although sex can be a biological way of showing love. 

3 hours ago, integral said:

Is arousal needed for intimacy? 

 

Very much. The physical intimacy gets stronger with mutual arousals.

 

[integral]

4 hours ago, Matt23 said:

Also, the word "trauma" could be loaded.  Like, most people would probably consider being raped traumatic.  But would you also consider parts of the general human condition traumatic as well?  For example, having a loved one die, various social fears, just the inherent stresses that come from trying to sustain a living practically, etc..  I'd prefer not to label those things as trauma, but it sure ain't always nice n' pretty.

Yes (predisposition, socio-economic environment, cultural background, available nutrition, and personal circumstances) = trauma lol 

Ok lets call it conditioning.