Moral nihilism

[Yog]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

So are you saying that morality is intuitive?

If we take the definition that "morality is a set of rules that a collective makes in order to maintain its cohesion", then I would say its partly intuitive.

"The partly part" goes for the pure, survival, animalistic and instincive part of what constitutes intuition. People's pull by their instincts will inevitably lead to people banding up and forming basic rulesets in order to survive. Both physically and psychologically.

But as I see it, instinct is part of intuition, and I am quite sure there is more to what adds up as intuition, something that can also serve as a guiding force but one that is not grounded in survival.

That part being your conscience/higher self/daemon, I would even add a spice sprinkle of Freudian super-ego in the mix, call it what you will. Its part of ourselves that we daily consult in an unconscious state at the points where we make choices, the bigger the choice is, the stronger the voice is. The thing is, its already giving us the answer, it's a definite yes, go there, do that, or no I shouldn't do that, a +- axis. But usually, it's the survivalistic part of our minds that tends to get the win in what the choice will be. If you learn to listen to it consciously, pick your choices consciously, and learn to consult it in a conscious way, then you won't need any human-centric ruleset books to guide you. In fact, your newfound "morality", will become universal. But you pay the price of being surrendered to and possessed by your higher self quite often. Not a bad price either.

[Someone here]

12 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Someone here

You are confucing morality and good values. Acting moral is doing or not doing whatever is required to hit your values and values are just things you want to have. Even drinking itself is not that bad thing, but doing too much of it that your health which should be a high value of yours suffers because of that. Because society as a whole and individual people have different goals and values there are also two sets of moral principles. What you should be concernced are just your own goals and principles to achieve those.

Yes but the whole problem is where do you get your high values from ?you take them from the bible (the 10 commands )? Or do you just come up with them ?

See because for religious people, morality doesn't make any sense without God. And that's what lead to moral nihilism. Which is the subject of this thread .

Some people think : what? God doesn’t exist? Whoohoo! I’m free to kill, rape, thieve, and litter, and won’t have to worry about consequences after I die.

Also, I have heard “God will forgive me” so many times from believers that I’ve come to the conclusion that belief in God has a negative impact on morality. If you can do anything you want, and God will forgive you…why would you want to be moral?

Is there be morality without a belief in an entirely imaginary being?(aka the god )

Yes, there can. I have an excellent moral understanding. I don’t steal, lie, cheat, murder, rape or defile anyone or anything, and I manage to not do any of those things without the abiding fear that if i do, I might spend an eternal afterlife being tortured by a loving creator. I just don’t do them because I’m not a dick.

[Kksd74628]

@Someone here

12 minutes ago, Someone here said:

"I just don’t do them because I’m not a dick.", "Morality doesn't make any sense without God.", "I won’t have to worry about consequences after I die." and "where do you get your high values from?"

Your highest values come from inside. Those are the things you'll find when you do enough contemplation about why I do anything at all. You don't maybe have any consequences that come after you die, because actually those come even earlier while you live. The reason why you don't rape, lie or steal shouldn't be because you don't want to be a dick, but because those aren't aligned with your values and therefore you aren't playing the game that you set for yourself optimally. So yeah morality makes sense without god if you know what you want and you want to stay on track.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Kksd74628

[Someone here]

16 minutes ago, Yog said:

That part being your conscience/higher self/daemon, I would even add a spice sprinkle of Freudian super-ego in the mix, call it what you will. Its part of ourselves that we daily consult in an unconscious state at the points where we make choices, the bigger the choice is, the stronger the voice is. The thing is, its already giving us the answer, it's a definite yes, go there, do that, or no I shouldn't do that, a +- axis. But usually, it's the survivalistic part of our minds that tends to get the win in what the choice will be. If you learn to listen to it consciously, pick your choices consciously, and learn to consult it in a conscious way, then you won't need any human-centric ruleset books to guide you. In fact, your newfound "morality", will become universal. But you pay the price of being surrendered to and possessed by your higher self quite often. Not a bad price either.

I define Morality as a system of principles and values concerning people's behaviour, which is generally accepted by a society or by a particular group of people.

I don't think It would be wrong to say that morality comes from spirituality because if one is aware of spirituality then the person will be familiar with what is good ..bad and he will know that wrong doing results wrong and good doings gets good result.

For most people religion is the source of morality .because we all know that there is some supernatural power of this universe which has created and and operating this universe, it gives us the fruits of our good and bad deeds. That's according to the religious worldview. 

But today's society has completely forgotten moral values & We can say that distance of new generation from spiritualism is the main reason behind falling the moral standard day by day .

In ancient times, our ancestors used to take spirituality as an important aspect of their lives, but today there is only hypocrisy and hypocrisy left in the name spirituality in the present time. Spirituality is coming to an end in the human being. As a result of that moral values are decreasing day by day.

But I think we can have morality without God.

 the nice thing about morality without God is that it can actually be based on wholly objective standards such as the innate sense of empathy that most humans are born with and empirical evidence of what sorts of behaviors are conducive to our working together successfully as a highly social species.

[Someone here]

12 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

. The reason why you don't rape, lie or steal shouldn't be because you don't want to be a dick, but because those aren't aligned with your values and therefore you aren't playing the game that you set for yourself optimally. So yeah morality makes sense without god if you know what you want and you want to stay on track.

 

Yes I agree .

We had morality long before Judaism or Christianity was a thing. Civilisations that have never heard the word of God have moral and ethical systems.

And the reason is much simpler than a god: we need morality to have social cohesiveness if the group is big enough. So every time the tribe becomes bigger than the “monkey sphere” ,the number of people with whom one can maintain stable social relationships .. it invents some form of morality.

[Danioover9000]

@Someone here

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

So are you saying that morality is intuitive? 

Why can't morality be selected consciously?  Why do we need prisons and law to make order between people?  Are we still not mature /evolved enough to handle morality and be kind and good to each others without fearing the law (or the hellfire in the case of religious people)?

   Why so many questions? Are you thirsty for a quest of knowledge, or to quench one's need for leggings, horny conquest? Hard to comprehend, that every bend and ends you go, every moral, is relative to every mortal? Morbid, I know, to consider, that morals are relative than absolute. The morals of a creature alien stage beige, to tribes like the Viking stage purple/red, Native Americans stage purple to red, businesses like hip hop industry and oil to tabaco industries staged orange and some blue, hippie communes, SJWs, leftie leaners, a pinch of orange to a dollop of stage green, guaranteed to make you leap to the greener side of the fence. Meanwhile, Star Trek's stage yellow space systems quite complex, until we discover an alien intelligent hive mind hybrid artificial intelligence, stage turquoise and beyond maybe. I know, so many colors, it's insane this rainbow array of morals like the coral reefs of old, so much so, that these moray eels rather prefer their muralled enclaves as the best for the whole coral reef system, to the death, good grief, ignoring the glaring hole of their whole mental prism they call home. Rather champion their standards, blind bastards, with their double standards and banters making even lib-tards pleasant like strawberry tarts!

   Technically, historically absolutist morality originally started in every birth and growth of empires/civilizations, to bind their peoples together some more, to bid farewell to older systems that don't work anymore to forward survival agendas way better than before, while keeping the pleasing aspects of those past systems be.

   So, what would it take, to make these moral nihilists wake up from their denial? Drag a fishing net, by a mile, for a while? Or maybe do a bit of sea mining? How would we develop from my/our morals to higher more inclusive morals? How many mourns of other morals do we need to suffer more? Until we survive the transformation of the globe, as our one true home? Or are we really alone? I don't know, so, we gotta shoulder on forward, warding off evil as we go.

    

Edited September 10, 2022 by Danioover9000

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Someone here

   Why so many questions? Are you thirsty for a quest of knowledge, or to quench one's need for leggings, horny conquest? Hard to comprehend, that every bend and ends you go, every moral, is relative to every mortal? Morbid, I know, to consider, that morals are relative than absolute. The morals of a creature alien stage beige, to tribes like the Viking stage purple/red, Native Americans stage purple to red, businesses like hip hop industry and oil to tabaco industries staged orange and some blue, hippie communes, SJWs, leftie leaners, a pinch of orange to a dollop of stage green, guaranteed to make you leap to the greener side of the fence. Meanwhile, Star Trek's stage yellow space systems quite complex, until we discover an alien intelligent hive mind hybrid artificial intelligence, stage turquoise and beyond maybe. I know, so many colors, it's insane this rainbow array of morals like the coral reefs of old, so much so, that these moray eels rather prefer their muralled enclaves as the best for the whole coral reef system, to the death, good grief, ignoring the glaring hole of their whole mental prism they call home. Rather champion their standards, blind bastards, with their double standards and banters making even lib-tards pleasant like strawberry tarts!

   Technically, historically absolutist morality originally started in every birth and growth of empires/civilizations, to bind their peoples together some more, to bid farewell to older systems that don't work anymore to forward survival agendas way better than before, while keeping the pleasing aspects of those past systems be.

    

I didn't understand anything. 

[Kksd74628]

@Someone here

We are still talking about different things. I am trying to show that personal morals are the most important things in your life and you're talking about principles that majority of people agreed just to make society more stable. Also what I am trying to show is that you shouldn't do things just because majority of people said so, because that way you'd make society your new god which is telling you what you should do. That's the reason why you should be your own moral king which guides you personally to better life.

[Someone here]

13 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Someone here

We are still talking about different things. I am trying to show that personal morals are the most important things in your life and you're talking about principles that majority of people agreed just to make society more stable. Also what I am trying to show is that you shouldn't do things just because majority of people said so, because that way you'd make society your new god which is telling you what you should do. That's the reason why you should be your own moral king which guides you personally to better life.

 No we are on the same wavelength.  So basically you are saying Morality is entirely subjective. We made the term. If you look at wild animals, they leave their children alone in fields. And guess what? We do that very same thing, some of us at least. Most of us consider it immoral, yet some of us do it. 

I mean, we literally burnt people for praying to the “wrong God” as if there’s one in the first place. So, yeah. Morality, eh? So much for that.

I’m not saying go kill people, but I’m saying that there are some who believe it’s fine to kill people. If morality were objective, everyone would think the same way and have a universal system by which they could categorize people with ease.

For example, apparently, it’s wrong to criticize religion (in certain cases, like insulting the Bible) because it’s unholy, but when religious people say that gays are spawns of Satan, they use the excuse of having the right to practice religion under the 1st Amendment.

So, yeah. Morality is nothing more than just a twig which we bend and twist and cut in half whenever we feel like it suits our purpose.