Moral nihilism

[Someone here]

IF I believe there NO morality exsists .. can I believe in the importance of doing the right thing, rather than behaving in a negetive way?

Can I still believe in good over evil?

Even though I don't believe morals exsist, minimising our impact on this earth is important to me. I believe in choosing to do the right thing over the wrong thing is. I believe in avoiding cause harm to others....

If moral nihlism is my thing, can I believe in that?

Can I believe causing harm is bad?

Especially if it's unnecessary harm?

If you take the position of (moral) nihilism.

Does taking up that position mean that you can't believe that there is a difference between right and wrong?

See currently I believe that there are no morals.

But I also do believe that there is a difference between right and wrong. If I take the position of moral nihilism, can I still value doing what I believe is the right over what I believe is the wrong? Can I believe in doing good over evil?

Is there a difference between acting in the right way and acting in the wrong way, compared to what is moral and immoral?

If I believe there are no morals, can I still claim to believe in doing the right thing is important? ... do un-towards others as they would to you etc etc, can I apply the golden rule to moral nihilism?

[Ulax]

Sure.

In the same way you can choose to sing in the rain, you can choose whatever set of morals to follow that you want.

[Someone here]

15 minutes ago, Ulax said:

Sure.

In the same way you can choose to sing in the rain, you can choose whatever set of morals to follow that you want.

But what good is certain set of morals if they are not objective/universal ?

I personally don't believe in absolute morality.  That there is no such thing as objective objective good and  bad . Yet i expect people to act good to me.  So I still have that bias . Therefore I'm not really a moral nihilist.  I have to accept that the  whole humanity will spit on my face and still not feel its badness. 

[r0ckyreed]

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

But what good is certain set of morals if they are not objective/universal ?

What good is having a certain set of clothes if they are not objective/universal?

What good is eating your favorite ice cream if it is not objective?

What good is creating art if beauty isn’t objective?

Relativity is Absolute Good. It is what allows you to be infinitely creative and good. If there was an absolute objective in life, then you would be limited in creating “The Good Life.” Where do these limits come from? You create them.

Focus on building your character.

Morality and life is a game but that doesn’t mean you can’t play it artfully.

Edited September 9, 2022 by r0ckyreed

[ZzzleepingBear]

10 hours ago, Someone here said:

Is there a difference between acting in the right way and acting in the wrong way, compared to what is moral and immoral?

The difference is the crowd that you yourself end up ressonating with the most. If you don't find stealing to be wrong, you might end up hanging out with other people who think the same thing. And don't act too surprised once they end up stealing from you aswell. That is morality in a nutshell for you.

[Someone here]

21 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

What good is having a certain set of clothes if they are not objective/universal?

What good is eating your favorite ice cream if it is not objective?

What good is creating art if beauty isn’t objective?

I think you are  misuing or misunderstanding the notion of objectivity here . Objective VS subjective doesn't apply to these specific examples by their nature . However when we talk about scientific facts or data or information or moral codes ..then we can apply the notion of objectivity vs subjectivity in this case .

23 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Relativity is Absolute Good. It is what allows you to be infinitely creative and good. If there was an absolute objective in life, then you would be limited in creating “The Good Life.” Where do these limits come from? You create them.

I agree . I don't believe there is a fixed objective in life .everyone's born as a clean slate. And its our job to figure out the purpose behind our own individual existence. But of course that's not what most people do .they get brainwashed and programmed by society to fulfil the objective of the cultural norm .

 

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, ZzzleepingBear said:

The difference is the crowd that you yourself end up ressonating with the most. If you don't find stealing to be wrong, you might end up hanging out with other people who think the same thing. And don't act too surprised once they end up stealing from you aswell. That is morality in a nutshell for you.

Most people objectify morality. I mean that literally: they turn morality into an object that they have to ‘discover’ outside of themselves or deep within themselves. But morality is a mode of reasoning, not a thing, and like other modes of reasoning it (hopefully) develops and matures over time and experience. We have one conception of morality now, but with a little more experience of the world we may come to find our current conception unworkable and develop a deeper philosophy about it. That is not less moral and more moral, or wrong and right; that is less developed and more developed. We are all works in progress.

[ZzzleepingBear]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

Most people objectify morality. I mean that literally: they turn morality into an object that they have to ‘discover’ outside of themselves or deep within themselves. But morality is a mode of reasoning, not a thing, and like other modes of reasoning it (hopefully) develops and matures over time and experience. We have one conception of morality now, but with a little more experience of the world we may come to find our current conception unworkable and develop a deeper philosophy about it. That is not less moral and more moral, or wrong and right; that is less developed and more developed. We are all works in progress.

I think karma is a better word if we talk about a kind of self-developed morality that goes beyond the social construct that most are used to.

[Yog]

Listening to that little voice inside seems like a good tradeoff for any "cultural morality".

[Danioover9000]

@Someone here

On 9/9/2022 at 5:00 AM, Someone here said:

IF I believe there NO morality exsists .. can I believe in the importance of doing the right thing, rather than behaving in a negetive way?

Can I still believe in good over evil?

Even though I don't believe morals exsist, minimising our impact on this earth is important to me. I believe in choosing to do the right thing over the wrong thing is. I believe in avoiding cause harm to others....

If moral nihlism is my thing, can I believe in that?

Can I believe causing harm is bad?

Especially if it's unnecessary harm?

If you take the position of (moral) nihilism.

Does taking up that position mean that you can't believe that there is a difference between right and wrong?

See currently I believe that there are no morals.

But I also do believe that there is a difference between right and wrong. If I take the position of moral nihilism, can I still value doing what I believe is the right over what I believe is the wrong? Can I believe in doing good over evil?

Is there a difference between acting in the right way and acting in the wrong way, compared to what is moral and immoral?

If I believe there are no morals, can I still claim to believe in doing the right thing is important? ... do un-towards others as they would to you etc etc, can I apply the golden rule to moral nihilism?

   Yes, you can, although that means you have to be good with the contradictions you encounter in yourself.

   However, as soon as other people are around you, in practice it's going to be difficult, and you might wish that there are enforced ethics and morals for how those people behave around you.

[Someone here]

34 minutes ago, Yog said:

Listening to that little voice inside seems like a good tradeoff for any "cultural morality".

So are you saying that morality is intuitive? 

5 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Someone here

   Yes, you can, although that means you have to be good with the contradictions you encounter in yourself.

   However, as soon as other people are around you, in practice it's going to be difficult, and you might wish that there are enforced ethics and morals for how those people behave around you.

Why can't morality be selected consciously?  Why do we need prisons and law to make order between people?  Are we still not mature /evolved enough to handle morality and be kind and good to each others without fearing the law (or the hellfire in the case of religious people)?

[Kksd74628]

@Someone here

55 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Are we still not mature /evolved enough to handle morality and be kind and good to each others without fearing the law (or the hellfire in the case of religious people)?

Not even close bro

[Someone here]

@Kksd74628 Law is simply codified and enforced morality. If a society feels strongly about a particular moral value, it would create a law to enforce it. If it doesn't, then it won't.

Law is not possible without morality, but morality will exist with or without law.

 

[Kksd74628]

@Someone here

You didn't stay in the subject. Original point I answered to was that we can't live without laws as a society still for long time.

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Someone here

You didn't stay in the subject. Original point I answered to was that we can't live without laws as a society still for long time.

I actually agree .Long before there were governments or religions the various tribes and extended families of mankind had rules of behavior and rules of sharing. Humans are by their nature social beings and some set of protocols will emerge in any human community.

[Kksd74628]

@Someone here

Function of rules is to support the learning process of high level behaviours.

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Someone here

Function of rules is to support the learning process of high level behaviours.

I have a friend who used to be Muslim. When he stopped being Muslim, he said to me “I can now have sex and drink without consequence”. I have never facepalmed harder. Some people are really so animalistic and primitive in their behaviour that they need an external authority (in most cases a religion )that tells them what's right and what's wrong . They can't derive them for themselves 

 

 

[Kksd74628]

@Someone here

So basically that person can't think in long term and rules were the only thing that kept him in correct path. Btw sex is not bad thing.

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Someone here

So basically that person can't think in long term and rules were the only thing that kept him in correct path. Btw sex is not bad thing.

Yes .you see, my friend was not moral, and used religion as a crutch for his lack of morality up until that point, and had to learn the hard way that you need to develop a morality all on your own. If you think morality comes only from God, you’re making the same mistake. You’re amoral, but doing as you’re told. (Note: Not immoral. Amoral.)

Im not saying sex is a bad thing absolutely. But relative to the religious world-view. All three Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) actually prohibit sex before marriage. So there's that .

[Kksd74628]

@Someone here

You are confucing morality and good values. Acting moral is doing or not doing whatever is required to hit your values and values are just things you want to have. Even drinking itself is not that bad thing, but doing too much of it that your health which should be a high value of yours suffers because of that. Because society as a whole and individual people have different goals and values there are also two sets of moral principles. What you should be concernced are just your own goals and principles to achieve those.