Another Destiny vs Mr. Girl, very heated and confusion.

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Carl-Richard

We are circling around the subject, but even if majority people answer in the streets that 1+1 equals 3 it doesn't change the fact that it is 2.

There is no absolute definition. It's always a mix between the three things.

[Scholar]

12 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

More proof that defining words in conversation is useful.

Depends on your goal.

 

 

Watched some of the conversation now, it really showcases the limitation of MrGirl's stage green lense. He is all about recognizing ones own bias and expressing it authentically, which is why he was urging Destiny to express his actual moral stance.

MrGirl's goal is to be authentic, for the sake of authenticity. It's ironic that he makes claims like, if he lived among nazi's, he would not fight them with violence but rather try to convince them with this methodology of his. It's such a naive, limited stage green perspective, and Destiny is right to point that out to him.

The truth is, MrGirl cannot convince anyone really, who does not already tend to align with his values, all he can fascilitate is an exploration of perspectives. The contradiction and flaw in his system is that, he obviously does want to influence and create a world akin to his own moral views, yet the tools he is so dogmatically attached to will not allow for that to happen.

He is failing to convince Destiny of his own value system, because all he can do in the end is say "Well, that's how I feel because I was raised this way.". All he can do is express his value system, but anyone who does not align with it can just reject it, and in fact is right to do so, because MrGirl admits it's just his on self-bias.

 

So really, MrGirl is trying to achieve two things at the same time that are just opposed to each other, and it just undermines the whole process.

 

 

Also notice, that because of this lense MrGirl is attached to, you cannot ever really move him off any of his points, because in the end it's all just self-bias, and he thinks everything boils down to self-bias, so in the end he thinks that nothing is more valid than anything else, so why would he ever change any of his positions.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Scholar

[Carl-Richard]

8 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Depends on your goal.

Destiny has made a decision to create a double-standard for how he treats one word (nazi) in order to be able to convert Fuentes' audience, and Mr. Girl is pointing out how this double-standard might actually be making that mission harder. So they actually have the same goal in mind, just the means are different.

[Kksd74628]

@Carl-Richard

So all that I am left right now is person who doesn't know the difference between words neo-nazi and nazi, because he thinks that different words can point towards same thing if some person who speaks loosely and wrongly in the streets says so. It's called informal talking for a reason, because it isn't formal. If you can't see how calling neo-nazi as a nazi isn't the most truthful thing then I can't continue this conversation. That is the step 1 which needs to be accepted, because if you're honest you'd agree with that claim.

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Kksd74628 said:

If you can't see how calling neo-nazi as a nazi isn't the most truthful thing then I can't continue this conversation.

There is no conversation without defining words.

[Kksd74628]

@Carl-Richard

So you don't think that calling person who is neo-nazi as a nazi is wrong?

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Kksd74628 said:

@Carl-Richard

So you don't think that calling person who is neo-nazi as a nazi is wrong?

 Depends on your definition.

[Scholar]

10 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Destiny has made a decision to create a double-standard for how he treats one word (nazi) in order to be able to convert Fuentes' audience, and Mr. Girl is pointing out how this double-standard might actually be making that mission harder. So they actually have the same goal in mind, just the means are different.

That's not what a double-standard is. Using the same words with different meanings is just how language functions. And no, MrGirl showcased how he does not care about that mission, because his entire line of argumentation failed. In the end all he could say was "Because I wanna!", and that is where all his conversations necessarily lead to, because he does not do anything beyond describing self-bias.

And no, they have completely different goals.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Scholar

[Kksd74628]

@Carl-Richard

So you don't see any problem teaching your daughter that piece of paper is metal?

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Kksd74628 said:

@Carl-Richard

So you don't see any problem teaching your daughter that piece of paper is metal?

I can do it fine without a dictionary.

[Carl-Richard]

10 minutes ago, Scholar said:

That's not what a double-standard is. Using the same words with different meanings is just how language functions.

I mean that he doesn't want to call him a nazi even if he fits his definition, but he calls him a fascist, a racist and an anti-Semite.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Scholar]

19 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I mean that he doesn't want to call him a nazi even if he fits his definition, but he calls him a fascist, a racist and an anti-Semite.

This is only a double standard if you remove it from all context, and I assume your implication was:

"He doesn't think he should call him a nazi even if it fits his definition, because that would undermine his goals, but he does think he can call him a fascist, a racist and an anti-semite, even though that undermines his goals."

If that was the case, there might be a double-standard, but this is not the case.

The right way to frame things, and Destiny went into detail on this, would be the following:

"Destiny thinks he ought not call him a nazi, fascist, racist or anti-semite, in the context of a conversation where he deems that would undermine his goals to a sufficient extent. He does think he can call him a nazi, fascist, racist or anti-semite, in the context of conversations where that would not undermine his goals to a sufficient extent."

Only by applying reductionism or pedanticism would there actually be a double standard. If you know the underlying dynamic, it makes sense and is consistent, only if you boil it down to the outcomes, omitting the particular conditions, would there be an apparent contradiction, for example:

"Destiny does think he can call Nick Fuentes a nazi, but Destiny thinks he should not call Nick Fuentes a nazi."

Edited September 8, 2022 by Scholar

[Carl-Richard]

@Scholar

I don't understand what you're saying.

[zurew]

@Carl-Richard Basically if Destiny thinks that in a certain conversation any of these words (fascist, racist, Nazi) would undermine his goal, he won't use any of these words, but he willing to use these words in a separate conversation and in a separate context where is goal is not undermined at all. (At least thats how I interpreted what Scholar was saying).

[Scholar]

48 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

@Scholar

I don't understand what you're saying.

Well, at least that makes sense, because I think otherwise you would have understood it when Destiny explained it. I don't know how else to explain it, to me it's pretty clear and straight forward.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Tahuti said:

That was your last straw. I'm talking to Leo gura about your moderation. 

Yeah, and copy-paste another encyclopedia page while you're at it.

[Carl-Richard]

51 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Well, at least that makes sense, because I think otherwise you would have understood it when Destiny explained it. I don't know how else to explain it, to me it's pretty clear and straight forward.

Oh yeah, I'm just generally a fucking dumbass. Of course 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Scholar]

30 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Oh yeah, I'm just generally a fucking dumbass. Of course 

Who knows.

[Carl-Richard]

8 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Who knows.

I was asking for a clarification, not an insult. But sure, who knows? Maybe I won't understand that either, but what we do know is that you once wrote a long topic talking about how you struggle explaining yourself.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Kksd74628]

@Tahuti

That something is derivative doesn't make it the same thing than the original, right? That's why we have 2 words and that's why they mean different things. I don't know how should I perceive people who were arguing with me after this conversation, because I thought this was the basics of the basics. Like using word differently that it used be used doesn't magically expand the word to mean different things. That just shows that some people are more and some less educated about how well they use their words.