Do We Have Free Will?

[Not a shaolin monk]

@kuwaynej We dont but if you dont play the illusion you ll do nothing

[kuwaynej]

@Nahm

In the Literal sense of the word "Never."

Don't get me wrong i do believe i am in control of my life even after realizing this truth and i am still fighting with the idea of Literally not having control of my body and thoughts, but its the truth.

 

Its accepting the fact that we behave mechanical.

if you are using your mind at anytime even when pursuing enlightenment, it means that you are not in control, some mechanical process is controlling you.

Its really fun because everyone seem like a robot, its getting to the point where i find it difficult to get annoyed by people.

[PureExp]

28 minutes ago, kuwaynej said:

Its accepting the fact that we behave mechanical.

if you are using your mind at anytime even when pursuing enlightenment, it means that you are not in control, some mechanical process is controlling you.

Its really fun because everyone seem like a robot, its getting to the point where i find it difficult to get annoyed by people.

Very well said. It is shocking to find that all of the body, ego and mind do whatever they do, spontaneously. There are experiments to show that actions and intentions happen before we (individuals) "pretend" to choose them.

However, I think, its not purely mechanical. The mechanisms reflect an extreme intelligence. Our actions are perfect, a result of a perfect intelligence. The universal Mind. The individuated mind has limited intelligence. I do see people as robots, but operated by something that operates this whole universe (physical as well as non-physical).

[Salaam]

We have a mixture of free will and automation, that is layered and exponentiated over time and degree of development.

Our bodies react to stimulus and then our brain responds to that reaction with balancing actions, data collection, etc. It is a two-step process that repeats and builds off of past processes as a nested function and has an effect on the different layers within our body and their level of synergy and harmony, which in turn has an influence on the over-all health of that two-step process. People miss that it is a two-step process, tunnel-vision upon the first step of bodily reaction and then jump to conclusions about the overall lack of free-will.


 

[jse]

<-- Place one of these in front of me, and my free will, real or apparent, is no more.

Edited February 14, 2017 by jse

[LetTheNewDayBegin]

If I don't have a free will then who am I?

[Nahm]

14 hours ago, Azrael said:

There is neither free will nor determinism because there isn't a person that could be subjected to it in relation on an environment that is separate from it. Therefore all you can really say about this subject is that what is going on is a spontaneous happening that seems to be of itself so when you look from our subset of reality onto it.

Remember, when you talk about free will you create by definition a human being that needs to be separate from his environment so that he could act freely or determinedly . That separation is arbitrary because everything you know is a relation between what you call "you" and what you call the "environment". So if you take one of these away you cannot talk about yourself or the other any more because they are interdependent.

This is a give-away for enlightenment, anyway.

You have no free will to change your environment?

[Galyna]

I think we should understand the illusion of time better to answer this question.  Think about it if time is just an illusion and exist within concious experience how is it possible to have a free will? Everything has  already happened,  we just see the fragment of Reality.

[Nahm]

27 minutes ago, Galyna said:

I think we should understand the illusion of time better to answer this question.  Think about it if time is just an illusion and exist within concious experience how is it possible to have a free will? Everything has  already happened,  we just see the fragment of Reality.

everything is happening now

?

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, blazed said:

You can hit your head hard and suffer brain damage and never remember who you are again, (so much for free will and all your life goals and values huh)

Research shows brain distorts memories over time, so ultimately your memory and history are inaccurate bullshit.

All your thoughts and ideas are bullshit.

Everything is bullshit.

The wiser we become the more we realise all the things we don't know.

You are the universe who is aware of the body and mind the paradox is we aware of 1 body and mind at the same time as everyone else, time might not even be the correct word to describe that phenomenon.

People often take the research that applies to milliseconds and conceptualize it to apply to years.

 

[Azrael]

8 hours ago, Nahm said:

You have no free will to change your environment?

There isn't an environment separate from you in the first place. It's something we make up.

[Azrael]

5 hours ago, John Flores said:

However, because a "will" of some kind does seem to create a change in the environment, then there seems to be one that is free.

I'd suggest to sit down and open and close your hand for some time and ask the question who is doing that? There is something that is happening and on its level of reality it is completely free and spontaneous indeed, but if you go down to our normal human egoic level, there is no will at all. It's just a tension that appears in that moment mixed with some emotions and thoughts that you are doing that.

If you find that out, you will be able to be as light as a feather.

[Dodo]

Does "who" have free will? How debate whether we have something or not before knowing who we are?

Edited February 15, 2017 by Dodoster

[Nahm]

If you don't have free will, why and how are you on this forum?

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

If you don't have free will, why and how are you on this forum?

Again, who are we talking about? The body-mind organism? Or you? If you, have you found yourself?

But for the sake of mind vs mind discussion, it's easy to answer your question,  even though it's not directed at me.

Everything can be viewed as a happening. No doers, just spontaneous happening. The proposed Lack of free will does not change the feeling of free will for the mind and the appearant making of choices and decisions. 

But those choices and decisions,  who drew them into your awareness. How did they pop up there? I don't know from where the next thought in my mind comes from, so my mind has concluded there's no proof of free will.

Even this conclusion, who made it, it just came to me based on genes and conditioning.

 

Edited February 15, 2017 by Dodoster

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

If you don't have free will, why and how are you on this forum?

Each man comes into this world with a specific destiny -- he has something to fulfill, some message has to be delivered, some work has to be completed. You are not here accidentally -- you are here meaningfully. There is a purpose behind you. The Whole intends to do something through you.

You are not separate from whole. You are here on this forum because you were not born blind. Internet is invented, you have internet connection. You were born in a country where you got a chance to learn English. There are millions of people who don't know about actualized.org, you are not one of them, and right now you are not hospitalized !

Edited February 15, 2017 by Prabhaker

[Loreena]

One can put it this way. We may not have free will but rather free choice or options. So you can choose what you wish to do right now but you cannot control the outcome of the present situation/event. There is no free will. 

We do not have control over our circumstances. But we have freedom to make decisions and choices. However those choices are limited. We cannot dictate the nature and the number of those choices. Again those are dictated by many factors in including circumstances. We have to operate within a narrow margin of those choices and make the best we can out of whatever we choose. 

[Nahm]

20 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

Again, who are we talking about? The body-mind organism? Or you? If you, have you found yourself?

But for the sake of mind vs mind discussion, it's easy to answer your question,  even though it's not directed at me.

Everything can be viewed as a happening. No doers, just spontaneous happening. The proposed Lack of free will does not change the feeling of free will for the mind and the appearant making of choices and decisions. 

But those choices and decisions,  who drew them into your awareness. How did they pop up there? I don't know from where the next thought in my mind comes from, so my mind has concluded there's no proof of free will.

Even this conclusion, who made it, it just came to me based on genes and conditioning.

 

The chooser.

16 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Each man comes into this world with a specific destiny -- he has something to fulfill, some message has to be delivered, some work has to be completed. You are not here accidentally -- you are here meaningfully. There is a purpose behind you. The Whole intends to do something through you.

You are not separate from whole. You are here on this forum because you were not born blind. Internet is invented, you have internet connection. You were born in a country where you got a chance to learn English. There are millions of people who don't know about actualized.org, you are not one of them, and right now you are not hospitalized !

 That's role. The everyone has a destiny to fulfill, cause I am filling mine, role.

You define your purpose, if you do.

It is far greater of a feeling to be empowered to choose and fulfill from now vs trying to make your now fit a life sized conception.

[Galyna]

11 hours ago, Nahm said:

everything is happening now

?

So what is now then?

[Dodo]

16 minutes ago, Nahm said:

The chooser.

 That's role. The everyone has a destiny to fulfill, cause I am filling mine, role.

You define your purpose, if you do.

It is far greater of a feeling to be empowered to choose and fulfill from now vs trying to make your now fit a life sized conception.

Ok, say we are the chooser. Does the chooser have control over which choices to be aware of at any given time in order to choose one from them?

You can't choose something you aren't aware of. So where is your freedom, if you don't choose what you are aware of?

Furthermore, from the limited things the chooser is aware of, who gives the chooser the preferences for one thing over another and why? Who decides when the chooser chooses and what and why the chooser chooses? 

Do you know how the next thought in your mind pops up, cause I have no idea. I also have no Idea how the chooser chooses. 

Also, you observe the so called chooser entity too. It's not you.

 

Edited February 15, 2017 by Dodoster