Might Inflation actually be a good thing?

[Jannes]

So the worldwide inflation is mostly seen as a negative. But for the western countries where we already have enough luxuries to survive extremely well I don’t see why we should be so concerned. We as humans always want more and more and so we don’t see how much we already have. No matter how much Technologie evolves we always want more. So that guarantees that we will destroy our environement.  But honestly I would be just as happy with old technology and less luxuries if that were the norm. A big inflation forces us to live with less and so we can see how much we actually need and maybe become conscious enough to not strive for more.

Thoughts ?

[JosephKnecht]

If you are in a lot of debt, inflation is great for you. 

If you have a lot of savings, inflation is bad for you. 

There is no good or bad, it is just a matter of perspective. 

[mr_engineer]

'Inflation makes you appreciate what you had'!!  

Edited September 3, 2022 by mr_engineer

[Jannes]

1 hour ago, JosephKnecht said:

If you are in a lot of debt, inflation is great for you. 

If you have a lot of savings, inflation is bad for you. 

There is no good or bad, it is just a matter of perspective. 

But in general it makes people more conservative with their money and hinders the economic growth right? 
Although with that logic taking a big credit would be a wise thing to do. I am kinda confused.

[Nilsi]

1 hour ago, Jannes said:

So the worldwide inflation is mostly seen as a negative. But for the western countries where we already have enough luxuries to survive extremely well I don’t see why we should be so concerned. We as humans always want more and more and so we don’t see how much we already have. No matter how much Technologie evolves we always want more. So that guarantees that we will destroy our environement.  But honestly I would be just as happy with old technology and less luxuries if that were the norm. A big inflation forces us to live with less and so we can see how much we actually need and maybe become conscious enough to not strive for more.

Thoughts ?

What about the people that were already barely able to take care of their basic needs ? Also, how does the economy survive if nobody buys shit anymore? What about all those people that are gonna lose their jobs through this? Obviosuly, this is no good short-term. It may be a neccessary forcing function for a more sustainable economy, but I dont see any evolution in that direction right now (our government is pumping out 500€ stimulus checks for every citizen, in a desperate attempt to keep the ship from sinking- which is completely unheard of and absolutely mad). I dont know what is gonna happen over the next couple years, but this sure as hell is fertile ground for all sorts of shenanigans. 

A system far enough from equilibrium is extremely fragile and will become really chaotic, before inevitably phase-shifiting into a new state of order. The question is, whether this will be for better or for worse.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Nilsi

[Jannes]

2 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

What about the people that were already barely able to take care of their basic needs ?

That’s a good point. But I don’t know how many people are actually getting more or less support regarding the economic situation. I mean do we spend a shitton of money into third world countries all of a sudden when the economy does well? No we buy ourselves a bigger car. But we do spend some more money for people in need in our own country when we can afford that. 

[Nilsi]

1 minute ago, Jannes said:

But we do spend some more money for people in need in our own country when we can afford that. 

Which only leads to further inflation.

[Ulax]

To my understanding, the major issue is that the more inflation increases, the more people fall into sub-standard living conditions where they struggle to meet their basic needs. This causes lots of suffering, and also leads to loss of life.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Ulax

[Zega]

Maybe it's the socialist side of me talking but this "inflation" we are experiencing is mostly lack of redistribution of wealth. 

To my understanding, big companies and banks received massive gains and debt forgiveness over the pandemic. My understanding of economics is pretty basic but there's a lot of factors that play into inflation. It is definitely a good thing for the wealthy who can drive their prices up without raising workers' wages.

Your minimalist take on being happy with all that you are blessed with is a noble one, but it doesn't apply to the elite responsible for squeezing the average citizen. It's also difficult to tell that to an American struggling with mental health problems they can't afford to treat, hospital bills, raising rent, and general worker mistreatment in a wage slave job.

Yes, we can be happy with what we have and there's lessons to be learned from that. That doesn't mean, however, that we have to be okay with the reasons behind the inflation and the lack of responsibility our representatives have for it.

[Jannes]

Yeah I think you guys are right. I had my little fantasy where people come together and find meaning in supporting each other. People finding new appreciation for what they already have and by all of that the environment gets saved in the background because people can’t afford stuff that destroys the environment. Guess there are a lot more complications then I thought, thanks for clearing that up. 

[Leon Vilovic]

In the early 90`s my parents lived trough hyper inflation where 1 month wage for a job requiring college education would give you enough money to buy one loaf of bread. Something similar happening is my big fear. Don't be dismissive of this extreme possibility, this happens more often than you think.

High inflation is very bad in general because it's a hidden tax on the poor and the middle class. I personally think that even the 2 % annual inflation target that was implemented by the federal reserve before was too much and was simply a tool to indirectly steal some of your money.

[Roy]

Ultimately inflation is just the economy adjusting on the loan we are taking out on the planet, eventually when certain resources become scarce enough or vanish there won't be any mechanism for coping with that reality.

Hopefully we have some sort of cultural revolution of sustainability, recycling (like SERIOUS recycling), circular markets, and anti-consumption. I'm not optimistic about this though. From my person observations I feel most people would rather drive the environment and society into the ground sooner than give up eating cheap beef and wide screen TVs. Most people simply cannot accept a reality where they will end up having to sacrifice or have less than what their parents did.

Perhaps we discover some new technology or create some system that can handle the problem, but I think impending catastrophe is more likely. The Silent Generation probably had optimism and hope for the future too, but they were thrust into dealing with the most deadly global conflict in human history. Tough shit, reality doesn't owe us anything. There aren't any guarantees.

Edited September 3, 2022 by Roy

[Emrie]

The great thing that we're already seeing is an acceleration away from fossil fuels.

Like fossil fuels are too expensive and renewables are too cheap now. Not to mention the war getting European countries to move away from Russian energy.

[Nilsi]

11 hours ago, Emrie said:

The great thing that we're already seeing is an acceleration away from fossil fuels.

Like fossil fuels are too expensive and renewables are too cheap now. Not to mention the war getting European countries to move away from Russian energy.

What do you mean? Germany is reactivating their mothballed coal plants in reaction to the gas shortages. If anything were regressing slightly right now.

[Emrie]

Actually glad you mention Germany because they're who I was thinking about. Yes they're opening up coal right now but they're also taking huge steps to transition away:

They've moved up their goal of 100% renewables to 2035: https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/germany-aims-get-100-energy-renewable-sources-by-2035-2022-02-28/

They've pledged 200 billion euros to transform their industry by 2026: https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/germany-has-earmarked-220-billion-industrial-transformation-by-2026-2022-03-06/

Also this nice article sums up a decent bit of what they're doing: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/how-the-ukraine-war-is-accelerating-germanys-renewable-energy-transition

And this is Germany but this kind of thing is happening in a lot of places. The US has signed the Inflation Reduction Act which invests like 350 billion dollars into all sorts of things including wind, solar, storage, nuclear, and manufacturing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw5zzrOpo2s

[Nilsi]

3 minutes ago, Emrie said:

Actually glad you mention Germany because they're who I was thinking about. Yes they're opening up coal right now but they're also taking huge steps to transition away:

They've moved up their goal of 100% renewables to 2035: https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/germany-aims-get-100-energy-renewable-sources-by-2035-2022-02-28/

They've pledged 200 billion euros to transform their industry by 2026: https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/germany-has-earmarked-220-billion-industrial-transformation-by-2026-2022-03-06/

Also this nice article sums up a decent bit of what they're doing: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/how-the-ukraine-war-is-accelerating-germanys-renewable-energy-transition

And this is Germany but this kind of thing is happening in a lot of places. The US has signed the Inflation Reduction Act which invests like 350 billion dollars into all sorts of things including wind, solar, storage, nuclear, and manufacturing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw5zzrOpo2s

These goals are laughable. These policies do not solve any of the underlying issues like perverse incentives or growth obligation. As long as exploitation gives you a competitive advantage, you are obligated to keep exploiting or you will just get fucked. What needs to happen is innovation - if renewable energy isn't more adaptive than fossil fuels, you can subsidize as much as you want, and the planet will keep being exploited until the last drop of oil has been extracted. Instead of making promises and building subpar technology, the government should put this money into education and R&D. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as we all know.

[Razard86]

On 9/2/2022 at 2:32 PM, Zega said:

Maybe it's the socialist side of me talking but this "inflation" we are experiencing is mostly lack of redistribution of wealth. 

To my understanding, big companies and banks received massive gains and debt forgiveness over the pandemic. My understanding of economics is pretty basic but there's a lot of factors that play into inflation. It is definitely a good thing for the wealthy who can drive their prices up without raising workers' wages.

Your minimalist take on being happy with all that you are blessed with is a noble one, but it doesn't apply to the elite responsible for squeezing the average citizen. It's also difficult to tell that to an American struggling with mental health problems they can't afford to treat, hospital bills, raising rent, and general worker mistreatment in a wage slave job.

Yes, we can be happy with what we have and there's lessons to be learned from that. That doesn't mean, however, that we have to be okay with the reasons behind the inflation and the lack of responsibility our representatives have for it.

The elite in human history have never had power, that power is given. The masses always fall for the same tactic, divide and conquer. As long as the people don't unite....nothing gets done. The elite are always HELD UP by the people at the bottom. If the bottom stops holding things up everything collapses. 

So the power is in the people, the masses, they are just asleep and think they are powerless and fight amongst themselves while the rich strut to the bank laughing. So its only the people at the bottom's lack of awareness of their own agency that keeps them at the bottom, it has been this way throughout human history. Its why every civilization eventually has a civil war because the people get so tired and finally wake up to the fact that THEY run things. 

1. If all the garbage men went on strike, society would collapse.

2. All construction workers go on strike, society collapses.

3. All the migrant workers we use to pick the fields for fruit and vegetables...again collapse.

4. If even 40% of the population in all the major cities went on strike that would put enough of a blow in the GNDP that it would cause grave issues.

5. Here is a great example. https://aflcio.org/about/history/labor-history-events/great-postal-strike The Post Office did this and they had NO CHOICE. The freaking mailmen/women held the entire country hostage on its mail. 

[Bobby_2021]

Yes, for the rich and wealthy. 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Bobby_2021