Osama Bin Laden

[Raptorsin7]

Has anyone done any serious deep dive into Osama Bin Laden?

He seemed to be deeply devoted to Islam, and if the Quran is a genuine holy book then maybe his actions were inspired by god. I read in his wiki page that he told his youngest son to only read the Quran, which on the face of it sounds extreme, but I think the Quran is a real holy book, so his son is getting the highest wisdom in the universe in some sense.

What do you guys think?

[AtheisticNonduality]

Well, I just grabbed my copy of the Quran right now to respond. While the Old Testament of the Bible (the Book of Genesis) starts off with the beginning of the world and the first events that ever happened in the cosmos and to humans, the Quran starts off with a prayer to Allah (THE OPENING / al-Fatihah) and then secondly a block of text advocating belief in Allah/Islam and statements of how disbelievers will be punished at a few points. So while the Bible has a good amount of talk about Hell, it in the beginning focuses on the beginning of the world and doesn't jump straightway into the concept of reward versus punishment as it pertains to the religion (this is because Genesis and the Quran were written at different times and places, obviously).

In fact, literally the seventh verse on the very first page is:

Quote

Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. They will have a severe torment.

And:

Quote

In their hearts is sickness, and Allah has increased their sickness. They will have a painful punishment because of their denial

. . .

He who made the earth a habitat for you, and the sky a structure, and sends water down from the sky, and brings out fruits thereby, as a sustenance for you. Therefore do not assign rivals to Allah while you know.

And if you are in doubt about what We [We means God, like a "royal we" pronoun] have revealed to Our servant, then produce a chapter like these, and call your witnesses apart from Allah, if you are truthful.

But if you do not---and you will not---then beware the Fire whose fuel is people and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.

. . .

as for those who disbelieve and reject Our signs---these are the inmates of the Fire---wherein they will remain forever.

 

[Raptorsin7]

@AtheisticNonduality What's your point?

Yeah, if you don't follow god life is miserable and you will suffer. Every religion ever.

What's the issue with that?

[AtheisticNonduality]

@Raptorsin7 The desire to inflict punishment is an inherent and base human drive that lives according to itself. Reading about it being sanctioned by God would be misinterpreted. Somebody reading about this with no outside context will not think, "Yes, if you follow the path of God, good will come naturally, and if you veer off from God, misfortunes will happen because of your own choices." They think, "There is an inside group that is us and an outside group that is them. We will be rewarded. And they---our enemies---will be punished with excruciating fires after they die in eternity." They don't take it metaphorically, as in pertaining to this life's quality based on how connected or disconnected to God you are; they take it literally, as in pertaining to their enemies, the outsiders, the disbelievers, the infidels, being tortured in literal flames for a literally infinite stretch of time by God. Obviously this is not necessarily a positive belief to have.

[Raptorsin7]

@AtheisticNonduality Are you sure thats what Bin Laden believed?

So you don't consider the Quran a genuine holy book? Isn't it possible Bin Laden did what he did because that's what he was inspired by god to do 

 

[AtheisticNonduality]

17 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@AtheisticNonduality Are you sure thats what Bin Laden believed?

So you don't consider the Quran a genuine holy book? Isn't it possible Bin Laden did what he did because that's what he was inspired by god to do 

You mean, what if there was some secret cosmic purpose behind 9/11? I think there are secret cosmic purposes and an overarching Purpose behind everything, but I don't know how "genuinely" inspired by God this terrorist was.

[Raptorsin7]

2 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

You mean, what if there was some secret cosmic purpose behind 9/11? I think there are secret cosmic purposes and an overarching Purpose behind everything, but I don't know how "genuinely" inspired by God this terrorist was.

Hmm. I think if 9-11 happened the way according to the conventional narrative then it's still possible Bin Laden was motivated by god to do what he did. But I am skeptical about the official narrative.

Bin Laden was an interesting guy, he's from one of the richest families in Saudi Arabia. He didn't seem like a religious nut job. 

How much have you looked into Bin Laden or Islam?

[AtheisticNonduality]

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Hmm. I think if 9-11 happened the way according to the conventional narrative then it's still possible Bin Laden was motivated by god to do what he did. But I am skeptical about the official narrative.

Bin Laden was an interesting guy, he's from one of the richest families in Saudi Arabia. He didn't seem like a religious nut job. 

How much have you looked into Bin Laden or Islam?

What is your pro-Bin Laden account of what happened?

I feel like if the deaths of thousands of people are to be justified by religious beliefs like the idea that the Quran is the holy word of God, there should be some evidence behind it.

[Raptorsin7]

18 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

What is your pro-Bin Laden account of what happened?

I feel like if the deaths of thousands of people are to be justified by religious beliefs like the idea that the Quran is the holy word of God, there should be some evidence behind it.

I haven't looked deeply into it, so this is just a surface perception of what may have happened.

But it seems like US imperialism and Zionism were exploiting and devastating the middle east and so Bin Laden and other Islamists want to protect their land and the Muslim world. If we take 9-11 at face value then the purpose of the attack was to draw the US into costly wars in the middle east which would ultimately bankrupt the US, so the US would no longer have the power to exploit the middle east.

If the Quran was a genuine holy book and pointed Bin Laden to god's grace then his actions would be inspired by god, and so out of love for god Bin Laden acted to protect Islam and defeat corrupt regimes.

When I read ACIM i can feel a healing energy in the sensations of my body, so that made me think this is a legit holy book. It's like the book invokes the holy spirit with. Maybe the Quran has a similar impact, and so the Islamists are motivated by love to do what they do

Edited September 1, 2022 by Raptorsin7