It's impossible, so it must be true...

[RMQualtrough]

The fact of experience is undeniable. Even a delusional experience at least undeniably happened, or "appeared" rather.

Experience ought to be impossible when there is no experiencER. So when the experiencer, when the conscious being completely vanishes, yet the "experienced" objects remain, it is completely impossible. It is so completely impossible that it should be impossible even as a schizophrenic psychotic break. There is no way this should even be possible to appear to a psychotic. It is impossible as both fact and impossible as illusion.

And yet it is appearing. And the fact it is appearing is absolute and undeniable.

Again, if a schiz maniac says there's a pink elephant floating in the room, that could be a delusion. But the fact that schiz maniac is seeing it, is absolute.

And that is what happens. Like how the Sun doesn't need to be lit up by an external source, sights and sounds and all manner of things like that are illuminated AS THEY ARE. Alone. Completely self luminous. The qualia is what they are. The idea of me + red = redness is fake. Completely fake. There is just redness. Observed by nobody, by nothing. Illuminated is what it IS. Like the Sun.

[Vibroverse]

I believe it for it is absurd. 

[Someone here]

Yes 

For example..seeing is an appearance. Eyes are a different appearance .The eyes don't see. You have no experience of the eyes seeing anything.

They are distinctions happening within consciousness. The visual field is occurring exactly where is it occurring. It is not occurring in your eyes lmao . Or in your so called brain. It is occurring exactly where it is occurring.

Just like the 'dream world' at night.. It appears as if the dream character's eyes are seeing the dream world. But actually it's consciousness who is appearing as eyes.. As sight.. As world. 

[RMQualtrough]

2 hours ago, Vibroverse said:

I believe it for it is absurd. 

Straight up impossible. Even hallucinating it on drugs or in psychosis, it should still be completely impossible: How the FUCK can any shade of reality be made of redness and NOT made of a seen redness and the one who sees it? How can it ONLY be redness alone?

In even the most schizophrenic of delusions, or the heaviest of drug highs... It is still completely impossible and should not be able to even appear even the strongest delirium.

And yet it can happen and when it does.........

Something extra to ponder: I think vision might be the reason for our predicament; on hardcore drug highs, every other sense can lose placement entirely and this happens quite easily I find. But vision is VERY stubborn. Even in a lucid dream, the sense that the sight we are seeing, like some sort of landscape, is in front of us spatially is super strong... Every other element loses this fast in ego death. But this is gorilla glue tier stuck.

When the spatial placement of even vision goes, something completely and utterly impossible is revealed. That the sights you thought you were seeing exist in absence of anyone or anything seeing them. That they are self-luminous like the surface of the Sun, they are not happening anywhere at all (as in, you can't find a location where it is, front, back, side, etc), but they are also happening everywhere. And they stand completely and entirely and wholly alone. And you simply do not exist and never have.

It is hard to drill the idea of a you out of the appearance of existence... It is hard to explain with enough gravity for a person to see, that they do not exist. They are absent. That the world is painted with strokes of redness and soundness and tasteness, not with red or sound or taste + a you observing them to turn them into reality. That the qualia is the ONLY thing there. When redness appears, there is redness. There is ONLY redness. The appearance of redness is the ONLY part of the equation that is present. Not the underlying red or "your consciousness". Redness shining like the Sun, its own surface already illuminated without eyes cast upon it. Luminosity in-built. "Observer and observed" loses the observer. And redness shines by itself.

The lingering thought of the "one who observes" is the final frontier of fear and grasping...... And then it is all over......

[axiom]

On 30/08/2022 at 2:47 PM, RMQualtrough said:

The fact of experience is undeniable. Even a delusional experience at least undeniably happened, or "appeared" rather.

Experience ought to be impossible when there is no experiencER. So when the experiencer, when the conscious being completely vanishes, yet the "experienced" objects remain, it is completely impossible. It is so completely impossible that it should be impossible even as a schizophrenic psychotic break. There is no way this should even be possible to appear to a psychotic. It is impossible as both fact and impossible as illusion.

And yet it is appearing. And the fact it is appearing is absolute and undeniable.

Again, if a schiz maniac says there's a pink elephant floating in the room, that could be a delusion. But the fact that schiz maniac is seeing it, is absolute.

And that is what happens. Like how the Sun doesn't need to be lit up by an external source, sights and sounds and all manner of things like that are illuminated AS THEY ARE. Alone. Completely self luminous. The qualia is what they are. The idea of me + red = redness is fake. Completely fake. There is just redness. Observed by nobody, by nothing. Illuminated is what it IS. Like the Sun.

In part this happens because of semantics.

Beginningless endlessness is just as impossible as anything with a beginning. So whichever position the self takes, whichever theory it likes best, it’s always going to be utterly impossible. Funny eh. Cosmic joke.

The word “consciousness” is a misnomer, as is the word “experience”. As is the word “awareness”. That’s part of the problem.

They are not actually experiences. There is no consciousness and there is no awareness.

Awareness is a mirrored maze with noone inside it. The notion of a self experiencing a world may be exclusively human (circa 10,000-15,000 apparent years ago). But of course, time isn’t real either.

There are only appearances. It begins and ends there.

Appearances are not real, because only a self can make a thing “real”. 

This isn’t happening. Only a self can have the sense of happening.

Thus all that is left is nothing being whatever it appears to be.

Hilarious, obvious and slightly frightening all at once.

Edited September 1, 2022 by axiom