why psychedelics can allow some people to awaken and others not?

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Yali said:

@Leo Gura Are you able to mantain your awakening while doing taxes?

Well, I know death is imaginary. Not yet sure about taxes

[Yali]

@Leo Gura You said in a blog post that you've permanetly awoken. So I'm curious as to whether you're awake right now as we speak without the use of psychedelics.

[Leo Gura]

25 minutes ago, Yali said:

@Leo Gura You said in a blog post that you've permanetly awoken. So I'm curious as to whether you're awake right now as we speak without the use of psychedelics.

There are many degrees of awake states of consciousness. I'm not as awake as I could be. But I know I'm God.

[Yali]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

But I know I'm God.

Under all conditions? @Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Yali said:

Under all conditions? @Leo Gura

I have to focus on the fact of it to bring it to my attention. Otherwise it recedes into the background.

For example, you know you're a human. But when you're not focused on that fact, it isn't in your awareness and so you mostly ignore it because it's not practical to focus on all the time.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Yali]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I have to focus on the fact of it to bring it to my attention.

What's stopping me, a spiritual noobie, from focusing on the fact the I'm God? 

Thousands of hours of meditiation & hundreds of psychedelics trips like you've done? Or can I realize it now? @Leo Gura

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Yali

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Yali said:

What's stopping me, a spiritual noobie, from focusing on the fact the I'm God?   @Leo Gura

God is just a concept to you until you have some awakenings. So you can focus on the concept but it won't actually get you closer to God.

What you're missing is a shift in your state of consciousness.

Also, what's stopping you is that you think you're a human.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Leo Gura

[UnbornTao]

6 hours ago, Brivido said:

A few weeks back, I watched one of his videos in which he says that in order to understand if his enlightenment was stable, he tried a massive dose of LSD.

I am pretty sure he did that in order to see if he had "become" Absolute Nothing, pure Consciousness. He wanted to see if he could maintain his awakening even during a deep LSD trip, were forms are changing constantly.

I think this statement explains why he doesn't think psychedelics can lead to awakening. Apparently, he thinks that psychedelics can only change the forms appearing in consciousness, rather than make you realize that you are Consciousness, the substance of every imaginable dream.  

He's obviously wrong, but, at least, now his position makes some sort of sense.

There are a lot of presuppositions on my part, but I thought about this while on 5-meo-malt...

No.

If I recall correctly, he said something along the lines of wanting to make sure that whatever happens within experience doesn't alter direct consciousness.

I think he wanted to make sure or test whether his enlightenment was untouchable by experience. It is, hence his position towards psychedelics.

I may be misrepresenting his story, though I don't think so.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Yali said:

You're able to shift your state of consciousness merely through focus? What's stopping me from doing the same?  @Leo Gura

You don't need to shift your state once you have some deep enough awakenings.

But if you haven't had some awakenings you don't even know what God is. You have no reference point.

[Leo Gura]

@Yali I don't have sober access to the level of consciousness created by 5-MeO. It would be hard to live with that level of consciousness.

[kray]

On 8/29/2022 at 7:46 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Yali I don't have sober access to the level of consciousness created by 5-MeO. It would be hard to live with that level of consciousness.

@Leo Gura but why use a chemical for that? If you want to realize the profundity of life, shouldn't you realize the profundity of being a human, without adding chemicals to your body? I'm completely for psychedelics to open that door, but after that shouldn't it be you, not the drug, that takes you to these levels of consciousness? At the end of the day, the hero's journey is about avoiding the path of least resistance, and isn't taking 5 meo to those profound levels taking the path of least resistance? I'm sorry, but I find it rather cocky from your side to say that you have reached the highest level of awakening and god realization without at least appreciating others have too, without the use of psychedelics. I know many will dispute this, but Sadhguru reached many of these levels of consciousness without the use of psychedelics. I agree that psychedelics may have an important role in introducing one to the path, but I also think that after a while you have to give up on adding more chemicals to your body, and walk the path with the authenticity and beauty of the human body. 

[Girzo]

1 hour ago, kray said:

shouldn't you realize the profundity of being a human, without adding chemicals to your body?

Isn't taking drugs a thing humans do? It's important in almost every culture.

[kray]

23 minutes ago, Girzo said:

Isn't taking drugs a thing humans do? It's important in almost every culture.

It is I’m not denying that, but I guess, with a self admitant  bias, that can take you only so far. In the Hindu tradition, a lot of stage turquoise sages, gurus, and yogis achieved these high levels of consciousness without the use of external substances. Again I’m not excluding or undermining other cultures, but I’m just giving an example where huge advances were made in consciousness without drugs. 

[Girzo]

43 minutes ago, kray said:

In the Hindu tradition, a lot of stage turquoise sages, gurus, and yogis

I don't feel like Turquoise is an appropiate label to use in regards to gurus and mystics of the past. It's hard to tell what this label really means even today, are people with characteristics ascribed to Turquoise even really there and is it really a next step, or maybe a different path. I think Leo did a kind of disservice to the community by teaching using Spiral Dynamics as a practical tool without warning enough that it is based in weak science and that it needs a lot more of scientific work to say anything sure about it.

50 minutes ago, kray said:

sages, gurus, and yogis achieved these high levels of consciousness without the use of external substances

Did they? What about wedic soma drink and hashish? And did they really achieve high consciousness in more reliable manner than what we have today? Because what we have today without drugs is not good. A few Enlightened individuals and even less Enlightened teachers with millions of seekers and students left in the dark. I suspect it has been similar back in the day. The techniques for raising consciousness all work a little bit, but mostly suck, because they require waaay too much work.

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, Girzo said:

 

Sounds like you want to convince yourself of this perspective.@Girzo

[Girzo]

@UnbornTao What exactly? You have quoted nothing. I am a fervent zealot of Nothing.

But on a serious note. No. Asking questions is a rhetorical device. I need no help in sorting my worldview, all good in here, thank you.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Girzo

[Ramu]

@Naol @Naolhi.  Ive taken LSD on several occasions and it's aided in reducing bad habits I used to engage in.  LSD like most psychedelics are non symbolic teaching tools.  I did not awaken on neither LSD nor mushrooms.  However I DID awaken on very strong ganja of the Sativa variety (blue Dream).  

[thisintegrated]

If you awaken to your Orange self then you'll awaken to your Orange self.

If you awaken to your Green self then you'll awaken to your Green self.

If you awaken to your Turquoise self then you'll awaken to your Turquoise self.

 

It won't make an Orange awaken into Turquoise.

[Brivido]

On 29/08/2022 at 6:26 PM, UnbornTao said:

he said something along the lines of wanting to make sure that whatever happens within experience doesn't alter direct consciousness.

Read slowly what I wrote (especially my reply to Leo) that's exactly what I said.

[UnbornTao]

@Girzo

On 8/31/2022 at 9:16 PM, Girzo said:

@UnbornTao What exactly?

"The psychedelic stance." That they increase consciousness.

Quote

But on a serious note. No. Asking questions is a rhetorical device. I need no help in sorting my worldview, all good in here, thank you.

Perhaps having a worldview sorted out isn't a strength but rather an impediment to genuine curiosity.

On 8/31/2022 at 6:10 PM, Girzo said:

Did they? What about wedic soma drink and hashish? And did they really achieve high consciousness in more reliable manner than what we have today? Because what we have today without drugs is not good. A few Enlightened individuals and even less Enlightened teachers with millions of seekers and students left in the dark. I suspect it has been similar back in the day. The techniques for raising consciousness all work a little bit, but mostly suck, because they require waaay too much work.

Sounds to me like you're making up excuses in order to justify or validate your psychedelic stance.

Edited September 9, 2022 by UnbornTao