It Is A Man's World, but who helped to shape man?

[Mesopotamian]

4 hours ago, jimwell said:

This is quickly changing, especially in the past few years because of the emergence of LGBTQ.

Traditional male and female roles are changing and becoming more intertwined.

Transgenders can now marry in a Catholic country which was completely unimaginable 2 decades ago. It shows how the LGBTQ community has gained much acceptance.

Kamusta ka po!

Of course it is good to know that the Philippines is friendly towards LGBTQ community..I wonder how that came to be as many of its people still identify as religious there.

here in Iraq it is still forbidden even for straight couple to live together without the marriage license! and also single people can't have a permit to rent a home if they were not married, a single man can't rent a home, a single woman can't rent a home. Literally no clearance or permit is given if there's no family. 

[jimwell]

13 hours ago, Mesopotamian said:

Kamusta ka po!

Ok lang po.

But just because I spoke Tagalog and recommended the Philippines, it doesn't mean the Philippines is my country of origin. Where I'm from and where I'm now are still unknown.

 

13 hours ago, Mesopotamian said:

Of course it is good to know that the Philippines is friendly towards LGBTQ community..I wonder how that came to be as many of its people still identify as religious there.

I also wonder about that. But I noticed that homosexuals, especially transgenders, are popular in the country because they are humorous. Filipinos love to laugh.

 

13 hours ago, Mesopotamian said:

here in Iraq it is still forbidden even for straight couple to live together without the marriage license! and also single people can't have a permit to rent a home if they were not married, a single man can't rent a home, a single woman can't rent a home. Literally no clearance or permit is given if there's no family. 

That's dumb as fuck. It's time to get out of there and move to a better country.

[DocWatts]

Much of the confusion and antagonism around gender dynamics stems from a more general lack of construct awareness, which leads to black and white thinking about a subject that requires a degree of nuance.

Sex is biological. Gender is socially constructed. Socially constructed does not mean arbitrary, but it does mean that gender is not a determinate characteristic. Rather, it's a social identity that correlates with some aspects of biological sex but is in no way synonymous with it.

Edited September 2, 2022 by DocWatts

[Lila9]

On 9/1/2022 at 11:38 PM, Mesopotamian said:

I am a man, and from my experience I can ascertain that men probably are closer to monkeys than to full-developed healthy human beings, pick the best man you know, and if you are a woman, you can tell sometimes that men are closer to monkeys and gorillas. What you're saying is just labeling, healthy and toxic masculinity, just labels, and I don't think this idea can hold.

Lol

No one was born a human.

We become humans, we are trained to be humans in a way our culture define "being a human".

Look at the abuse stories of the kids, boys and girls who has been raised, in a complete solitude without proper socializing, or those who had been raised with animals without any interaction with a single human being. They all act like animals, or monkeys if you wish.

We all start there, and gradually develop to be less of a monkey alike or animal alike.

You might feel helpless and ineligible but it doesn't mean that all men feel like you and it doesn't mean that some women don't feel like you.

You're projecting your self bias upon all men in the world, including the wisest and strongest men in the world. 

It's just like I belive that I'm helpless and ineligible and project it on all the women in the world, including the wisest and strongest women that is there.

That's only projection, an illusion that has nothing to do with reality.

Reality is much more complex.

On 9/1/2022 at 11:38 PM, Mesopotamian said:

No he can't, he's closer to a gorilla or monkey, in terms of his mind development and brain or whatever. Psyche development I guess the correct term. If you ever feel like that sometimes, then your feelings are true! I know what I was, and I know how much effort and attempts it took me to become what I am today

I don't compare myself to you because obviously, regardless gender we are different people, but, do you think that I didn't put efforts and attempts to be what I am today?

You bet that I struggled, a lot, and it took me so much trial and error, time and experiences to be who I am now. And who I am now isn't even the final version of me, I have so much more where to develop and grow. It's life time learning process.

On 9/1/2022 at 11:38 PM, Mesopotamian said:

This is a good question. Man's brain is corrupt actually, look at a male child, and look at a female child, and you can discern easily that a male child is clueless, while female child is much more smarter emotionally. 

Boys and girls were socialized differently.

Girls were socialize to be tuned to the emotions of others and boys were socialized to be individualistic and detached from the emotions of others.

But both genders socialize to repress their own emotions. It's a big problem.

As a grown man with much more awareness than you had as a child you can learn to reconnect with your own emotions. It's a personal process that no one can do for you. No one is able to reconnect to your own emotions, no man or woman in this entire world. Only you.

Here's a guide:

People have corrupted brains for survivul purposes and it become less corrupted as their level of consciousness rises.  

On 9/1/2022 at 11:38 PM, Mesopotamian said:

A male child grows, goes to outside world, study, go to army, or find a job,make gadgets, and make the world run, yet he never has the chance to make himself smarter emotionally by training himself  with a woman! in fact society expect him to be smart out of the box! or from the get go..

If you are a monkey, you need some training from someone who's smarter than you, a woman. Men lack this type of smart, and they simply can't acquire it by themselves. They simply can't!

 

What is your definition of smart?

Do you mean to emotional intelligence? 

It's only one kind of intelligence out of many and you can develop it.

Here are some tips to improve your emotional intelligence:

 

More types of intelligence:

 

 

 

 

 

[Mesopotamian]

14 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Boys and girls were socialized differently.

Girls were socialize to be tuned to the emotions of others and boys were socialized to be individualistic and detached from the emotions of others.

Let's start from here, and I truly believe, and especially after I read "The Female Brain" that boys and girls are different psychologically, and it is not merely a matter of how they were socialized. According to the book, even science now knows that when Testosterone is injected in the male brain inside the womb, it corrupts the brain.

In the book mentioned that a baby girl is much more intelligent than a baby boy when recognizing her parent's emotions and faces and such..

I mean for me the truth are out there, girls are much more intelligent or emotionally smart than boys, and there's little can be debated about that.

14 hours ago, Lila9 said:

You bet that I struggled, a lot, and it took me so much trial and error, time and experiences to be who I am now. And who I am now isn't even the final version of me, I have so much more where to develop and grow. It's life time learning process.

What kind of struggles you've been through? 

for me, I was struggling because I was dumb as F*** emotionally, and it made me a clueless person when dealing with people around me.

 

[Lila9]

8 hours ago, Mesopotamian said:

Let's start from here, and I truly believe, and especially after I read "The Female Brain" that boys and girls are different psychologically, and it is not merely a matter of how they were socialized. According to the book, even science now knows that when Testosterone is injected in the male brain inside the womb, it corrupts the brain.

In the book mentioned that a baby girl is much more intelligent than a baby boy when recognizing her parent's emotions and faces and such..

I mean for me the truth are out there, girls are much more intelligent or emotionally smart than boys, and there's little can be debated about that.

 

It's one book written by one person with her own biases. Have you read the critics about the book? Have you checked the researches she based her book about? Have you read contradictory books?

I don't say this book is accurate or not, I also don't really know if gender differences occur since birth or by socialization. I tend to belive that it's more of socialization and in reality people are much more complex.

I did read that parents tend to treat boys and girls differently since birth, so it might have an impact on boys face recognition abilities. 

 

8 hours ago, Mesopotamian said:

What kind of struggles you've been through? 

for me, I was struggling because I was dumb as F*** emotionally, and it made me a clueless person when dealing with people around me.

 

Iyo, are you still dumb af emotionally? 

What did you do (or still do) to overcome it?

for me my main struggles were periods of depression and social anxiety in my adolescence, childhood trauma and neglect, poverty, cluelessness about myself and the world, being an easy pray for abuse, self doubt, a constant feeling of detachment from this world and society, being an outsider and feeling misunderstood.

It took me many years to have the insights and the understanding I have about myself and the world today.

It was very tough this entire process and I could end up differently.

 

Your view, where women born goddess and men born monkeys.

Let's say that it's true. What are the practical steps women should do now as a collective in order to get to the fixation and rescue men from their own emotional dumbness?

And if they do that and take the steps collectively to improve or "fix" men, what promising that men will be listening and willing to change?

What about feminism? Many men ignore that because it comes from women and don't serve the patriarchal agenda.

Are you as an individual ready to have outer female authority to guide you? Will you take it seriously? Won't it clash with your ego? 

Do you aware to the female inside you?

Do you care about connecting to your female side?

Edited September 4, 2022 by Lila9

[Mesopotamian]

3 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

It's one book written by one person with his own biases. Have you read the critics about the book? Have you checked the researches she based her book about? Have you read contradictory books?

I know the book has given me an insight about how differently woman think, and that has made smarter  So Naturally I won't read the critics. Basically my life and what I knew and I was taught are the contradictory evidence which of course didn't work!

5 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I don't say this book is accurate or not, I also don't really know if gender differences occur since birth or by socialization. I tend to belive that it's more of socialization and in reality people are much more complex.

I believe the author has also a book called "The Male Brain" and I haven't read, but I can assume it is a good read also..

Yet it is truly important to dive into this topic, and I don't find it wise to skip it. It changes your whole approach to the topic if in case you know there are deeper differences than you've thought was the case.

Perhaps the socialization happened in a different way than you would imagine, perhaps the our ancestors have tried to socialize with baby boys but they finally found them dumb as F***, so they simply gave up! while it is more fun to interact with gals! 

I know that this is the case, and when I was young, they would allow my cousin girl to dress up and dance, while me.. nah.. I was one time traumatized when I was singing for the family and my dad brought down my pants exposing my genitals at the end of the performance and I kept beating my head and cry until my ears started to bleed. Being the monkey he was himself, perhaps he found my performance ugly! if to be compared with my cousin who wears make up, and colorful gypsy skirt and starts to dance..

 

13 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Iyo, are you still dumb af emotionally? 

 

I would like to think that I became much better recently..

14 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

What did you do (or still do) to overcome it?

 

Around 6 years with Leo, and about a year of Teal Swan, The Female Brain Book, and then on top of those around 7 months chatting with a woman on a daily basis about her life, and her break up with the one who used to bring her joy.

17 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

for me my main struggles were periods of depression and social anxiety in my adolescence, childhood trauma and neglect, poverty, cluelessness about myself and the world, being an easy pray for abuse, self doubt, a constant feeling of detachment from this world and society, being an outsider and feeling misunderstood.

It took me many years to have the insights and the understanding I have about myself and the world today.

It was very tough this entire process and I could end up differently.

I can relate to some of that, and it must have been tough feeling detached from the society and an outsider. How are you dealing with those issues for now?

19 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Your view, where women born goddess and men born monkeys.

 

I mean this is a man's world! If you have a problem in this world it is because man has created it, with less love and understanding and compassion. 

20 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Let's say that it's true. What are the practical steps women should do now as a collective in order to get to the fixation and rescue men from their own emotional dumbness?

I found validity in most of Teal Swan's teachings, and especially when she talks about family and gaslighting.. I feel we must go deeper and try to contemplate the origin of family, the amount of gaslighting and preassure that is practiced on young men and women in order to make them commit to marriages that otherwise they don't want!

Let's start having less families or re-define what a family means. This can have an effect to raise healthier adults IMO.

24 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

And if they do that and take the steps collectively to improve or "fix" men, what promising that men will be listening and willing to change?

As of any project, you need to plan it, staragize about it and then hope for the best! could be 5% chance of winning.. One thing I learned about is that woman need some sort of guarantees before they embark on any sort of journey.

26 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

What about feminism? Many men ignore that because it comes from women and don't serve the patriarchal agenda.

IMO Feminisim is just an attack on this concept that's so called 'masculinity', what if we start thinking that men are just way way under-developped, are we going to waste this energy attacking that abstract idea?

29 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Are you as an individual ready to have outer female authority to guide you? Will you take it seriously? Won't it clash with your ego? 

I am tired of running in circles in this world. Perhaps if I can walk a female through the corridors of knowledge and rationality, she can learn how to run the world, and she can bring her passion love and kindness to our world!

31 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Are you aware to the female inside you?

I am still a man inside, and I care less, and I am less kind in general, I can only care for people that I know and no one else. Not even animals or plants or nature..

33 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Are you care about connecting to your female side?

no not really.. I can't be but a man  

 

[Lila9]

On 9/4/2022 at 8:18 PM, Mesopotamian said:

Perhaps the socialization happened in a different way than you would imagine, perhaps the our ancestors have tried to socialize with baby boys but they finally found them dumb as F***, so they simply gave up! while it is more fun to interact with gals! 

I don't belive that most of them were aware enough to even experiment it. In order to experiment it one should doubt gender differences, and their own biases regarding gender roles. As long as one beliefs in gender differences as an inherent truth and isn't aware to his own biases, like people used to in the past (more than today) they won't even try to check it.

On 9/4/2022 at 8:18 PM, Mesopotamian said:

I know that this is the case, and when I was young, they would allow my cousin girl to dress up and dance, while me.. nah.. I was one time traumatized when I was singing for the family and my dad brought down my pants exposing my genitals at the end of the performance and I kept beating my head and cry until my ears started to bleed. Being the monkey he was himself, perhaps he found my performance ugly! if to be compared with my cousin who wears make up, and colorful gypsy skirt and starts to dance.

That shit really sounds traumatizing, seems like from your pov adults treat girls more positively.

Maybe you still have some  resentment from your childhood towards your dad who humiliated you and your girl cousin who was treated better than you. Look at it and see how it impacts your way of thinking and seeing the world. Our early experiences design us but not always in a positive way. Check if there is any wound to heal or any false believes you hold. I'm sure there are. I sense it in you.

 

On 9/4/2022 at 8:18 PM, Mesopotamian said:

no not really.. I can't be but a man

I don't understand it. You want women to become more of a men but you don't want to be more of a woman? So how change is even possible?

You want to get compassion and kindness from women, but don't you think that they also want to get it from men?

In order to get to common ground and change the family system from it's roots as you've mentioned, we need more men who are willing to quetion man's gender role, we need cooperation between men and women and it's only possible when men are connected to their feminine side. 

If women will be more of a men while men don't want to be more of a women, we will live in a world full of men. We live in this world now and it's awful. We need more men who are willing to connect to their feminine side. 

If the idea of connecting to your feminine side triggering you, it means that this is exactly what you should do. 

On 9/4/2022 at 8:18 PM, Mesopotamian said:

IMO Feminisim is just an attack on this concept that's so called 'masculinity', what if we start thinking that men are just way way under-developped, are we going to waste this energy attacking that abstract idea?

Feminism is hopeful about men. It's attacking toxic masculinity only because it believes in healthier form of masculinity. And it's true, there are wonderful and healthy men.

 

On 9/4/2022 at 8:18 PM, Mesopotamian said:

I am still a man inside, and I care less, and I am less kind in general, I can only care for people that I know and no one else. Not even animals or plants or nature..

It implies more on your level of consciousness and spiritual development level than wether you are a man or a woman.

The more conscious you are, the more beings you care about. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Lila9

[Mesopotamian]

17 hours ago, Lila9 said:

It implies more on your level of consciousness and spiritual development level than wether you are a man or a woman.

The more conscious you are, the more beings you care about. 

Not necessarily, for me, I found it stupid the idea of care. I can care for myself and that's all what matters. I hate animals. I hate cats and I hate dogs!

You think you want to be scientific? do a study, for me an animal is to be eaten. For woman, she can socialize with animals and connect to them, talk to them..etc.

Have a look at the Tiktok videos, and the evidence is overwhelming that woman do care for animals, they can speak to animals! Have you seen the video of a women scolding a bear and asking it to get out and close the door?

Men will never ever live up to the notion of becoming more feminine , we don't care, we don't give a shit. It is in our biology that we just don't fucking care.

Gender roles are real, and just because you can see some men in the developed countries who can bring out "their feminine side", ask about the overall level of development of that country , and probably a man of these qualities is just acting under immense pressure or brought up in a feminine milieu. 

I mean the notion of 'care' is so fucking alien for a man, you wouldn't imagine how alien it is!

17 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Feminism is hopeful about men. It's attacking toxic masculinity only because it believes in healthier form of masculinity. And it's true, there are wonderful and healthy men.

Feminists have created some example of a feminist man, and they are delusional that this can be replicated. I wish I can take you to a trip inside my brain, and the natural position for me is that I don't fucking care!

I guess woman don't want to come out of their shell and get their hands dirty in knowledge and rationality, and that's just laziness! but it is easier if you did! easier than trying to create men who care! we don't!

I promise you that you won't become a man! if you are a loving and caring woman, you won't become a man once you try to also adopt some of that rationality and knowledge that enables the man to build the world we live in now.

17 hours ago, Lila9 said:

If the idea of connecting to your feminine side triggering you, it means that this is exactly what you should do. 

No it doesn't, it doesn't at all, it is more simpler than that. the word "care" isn't in my dictionary. I simply don't care but for myself! if you believe in the existence of old men and caves and such, what was the role of men? go out in the morning, kill animals, come back, have sex, eat, sleep. this is what we like to do!

Yet for women, it is different, getting pregnant for 9 months, giving birth, raising babies, all because she wants to see them smile, play, this triggers her imagination and flame her yearning for beauty.. perhaps she likes simple things, flowers, smiles, but for men, well I want to jerk off! that's the climax of my joy in life if I jerk of or fuck a woman.. I am an animal inside. When I see a woman walking I imagine her naked, trying to see what it feels like if I would to put my penis between her legs.. This is what I naturally care about! 

Good luck reforming men of the world I guess?

18 hours ago, Lila9 said:

That shit really sounds traumatizing, seems like from your pov adults treat girls more positively.

Maybe you still have some  resentment from your childhood towards your dad who humiliated you and your girl cousin who was treated better than you. Look at it and see how it impacts your way of thinking and seeing the world. Our early experiences design us but not always in a positive way. Check if there is any wound to heal or any false believes you hold. I'm sure there are. I sense it in you.

Thank you for your concern here, I guess I am fine by now, yet maybe you are losing something when you're not being exposed to raw experiences like this yourself. Cuz I feel that feminisms is utter BS as you can tell, trying to reform monkeys. Yes some monkeys can be reformed, but only under very narrow circumstances as I stated earlier.

[Lila9]

2 hours ago, Mesopotamian said:

Not necessarily, for me, I found it stupid the idea of care. I can care for myself and that's all what matters. I hate animals. I hate cats and I hate dogs!

You think you want to be scientific? do a study, for me an animal is to be eaten. For woman, she can socialize with animals and connect to them, talk to them..etc.

Have a look at the Tiktok videos, and the evidence is overwhelming that woman do care for animals, they can speak to animals! Have you seen the video of a women scolding a bear and asking it to get out and close the door?

Men will never ever live up to the notion of becoming more feminine , we don't care, we don't give a shit. It is in our biology that we just don't fucking care.

Gender roles are real, and just because you can see some men in the developed countries who can bring out "their feminine side", ask about the overall level of development of that country , and probably a man of these qualities is just acting under immense pressure or brought up in a feminine milieu. 

I mean the notion of 'care' is so fucking alien for a man, you wouldn't imagine how alien it is!

Feminists have created some example of a feminist man, and they are delusional that this can be replicated. I wish I can take you to a trip inside my brain, and the natural position for me is that I don't fucking care!

I guess woman don't want to come out of their shell and get their hands dirty in knowledge and rationality, and that's just laziness! but it is easier if you did! easier than trying to create men who care! we don't!

I promise you that you won't become a man! if you are a loving and caring woman, you won't become a man once you try to also adopt some of that rationality and knowledge that enables the man to build the world we live in now.

No it doesn't, it doesn't at all, it is more simpler than that. the word "care" isn't in my dictionary. I simply don't care but for myself! if you believe in the existence of old men and caves and such, what was the role of men? go out in the morning, kill animals, come back, have sex, eat, sleep. this is what we like to do!

Yet for women, it is different, getting pregnant for 9 months, giving birth, raising babies, all because she wants to see them smile, play, this triggers her imagination and flame her yearning for beauty.. perhaps she likes simple things, flowers, smiles, but for men, well I want to jerk off! that's the climax of my joy in life if I jerk of or fuck a woman.. I am an animal inside. When I see a woman walking I imagine her naked, trying to see what it feels like if I would to put my penis between her legs.. This is what I naturally care about! 

Good luck reforming men of the world I guess?

Thank you for your concern here, I guess I am fine by now, yet maybe you are losing something when you're not being exposed to raw experiences like this yourself. Cuz I feel that feminisms is utter BS as you can tell, trying to reform monkeys. Yes some monkeys can be reformed, but only under very narrow circumstances as I stated earlier.

LOL

You contradict yourself too much. I'm not even going to continue this discussion because it will lead to nowhere. Good luck.

 

[sholomar]

I see all these labels applied to people that only serve to divide us like black white male female gay straight Chinese Hindu American Caucasian Mexican etc.

I don't believe human beings have as much free will as we think we do. It really takes a lot of work to actually see something you want to achieve and go and make the hard changes to go and achieve it it's much easier to simply Coast on pre-existing habits picked up from childhood. Change is painful but rewarding.

Being addicted to your habits and not changing as often more painful in the long run though. Regardless life is not easy. Most of what we do is just a result of culture and evolution our DNA which is computer code is simply running the software encoded in it. We have a limited ability to reprogram ourselves and ideally we would wait to have children until after we have become the best version of ourselves as I believe we can pass on these traits to our offspring more effectively.

Edited September 7, 2022 by sholomar

[Mesopotamian]

On 9/6/2022 at 7:54 PM, Lila9 said:

LOL

You contradict yourself too much. I'm not even going to continue this discussion because it will lead to nowhere. Good luck.

 

Sure, You're welcome to continue anytime! and sorry for the profanity I used in the last post. I wasn't feeling well that day and it came out naturally.