Nick Fuentes vs Destiny Immigration Debate Revisited

[Raptorsin7]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Is your idea of evidence him saying his true views explicitly? Do you not see the problem with that given what I've just said? He thrives on ambiguity.

Here is an idea: if there is even a slight indication that somebody might want to kill just any amount of Jews, should that not be enough to completely disregard them?

I want any evidence. So far you just have the connections you made in your own brain with nothing Nick has said. I am not saying with certainty that he isn't the things you are accusing him of being. I just want a coherent argument with evidence.

I do see an issue with him, but I'm trying to get a clear picture of what he believes and why he believes it. But when everyone who argues about him approaches the conservation in bad faith with prejudice it's harder than it needs to be. 

Your second state is complete nonsense. I could say I want to murder a jewish pedophile who molested my daughter and by your logic i'd be someone you completely disregard.

If he's talking about killing Jews that are part of a Zionist world order that's a different ball game than someone who wants to finish what the Nazi's in Germany started.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Raptorsin7

[Raptorsin7]

According to this TYT report Nick Fuentes was his high school class president and gave the speech at their graduation. That's pretty surprising.

[Carl-Richard]

21 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

If he's talking about killing Jews that are part of a Zionist world order that's a different ball game than someone who wants to finish what the Nazi's in Germany started.

Again, how many Jews are we talking about? If that is not explicitly stated, then we're back to the ambiguity game.

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Carl-Richard said:

Again, how many Jews are we talking about? If that is not explicitly stated, then we're back to the ambiguity game.

But he could acting provocative because he knows it will stir up controversy so he can attract more attention to his ideology.

You still haven't provided concrete evidence of anything you're saying. 

You know Nick Fuentes actually is going to deliver us to heaven. And don't ask about how I know this, let's just keep talking as if this is the truth because i said it.

[zurew]

14 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

But he could acting provocative because he knows it will stir up controversy so he can attract more attention to his ideology.

Ambiguity is the problem where Carl is pointing to. Even you don't know yourself what Nick means when he is making a statement.

If someone is that vague, he leaves the door open for speculation, and thats what Nick is doing here and thats the problem. Its impossible to properly evaluate his sentences because he is not being specific enough.

 

Its a problem because being that vague you still influence people, but at the same time, you cannot hold that particular person accountable, because of the ambiguity.

Edited August 29, 2022 by zurew

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, zurew said:

Ambiguity is the problem where Carl is pointing to. Even you don't know yourself what Nick means when he is making a statement.

If someone is that vague, he leaves the door open for speculation, and thats what Nick is doing here and thats the problem. Its impossible to properly evaluate his sentences because he is not being specific enough.

Then why do people like @Carl-Richard jump to the conclusion that he wants to murder all Jews?

I'm asking for specific evidence of his most egregious claims. Or evidence of some micro behaviors that indicate some more sinister intentions.

At this point I'm genuinely curious to know the truth about Nick Fuentes. 

When he makes a jew in the oven joke there are multiple explanations. It could be a dog whistle to his fans who genuinely want to finish what the Nazi's started. Or it could be marketing ploy to expand his audience through shock and awe.

[Carl-Richard]

@Raptorsin7

Tell me what "Zionist world order" means and I'll tell you what "all Jews" means.

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Carl-Richard said:

@Raptorsin7

Tell me what "Zionist world order" means and I'll tell you what "all Jews" means.

I'm just speculating. My position is I don't know whether Nick Fuentes is the demond he's been made out to be.

If your position is idk if Nick is good or bad then we have no issue.

But you are making the claim Nick Fuentes is dangerous/problematic/etc so i'm asking for evidence. 

I haven't looked into the Zionist conspiracies, but I think the position is that there is a group of Jewish billionares/politicians who run have disproportionate control over world governments and media and so they influence the world in a way that elevates Jews/Zionism.

Like Jews orchestrated 9-11 so the USA could have a pretense to invade the middle east to destabilize the region, which enhances the relative survival value of Israel.

Not saying this is true, but I'm just trying to lay out the case to the best of my knowledge

[Raptorsin7]

What do you think of what Nick Said from the Genocide/Holocaust section? It seems like he's making more sense than Destiny over that short span.

01:04:10 - Nick Fuentes: Genocide 01:11:15 - Nick Fuentes: Holocaust

Edited August 29, 2022 by Raptorsin7

[Raptorsin7]

The more I listen to Nick Fuentes the more I start to think he's smarter and wiser than Destiny.

[Carl-Richard]

46 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I'm just speculating. My position is I don't know whether Nick Fuentes is the demond he's been made out to be.

If your position is idk if Nick is good or bad then we have no issue.

But you are making the claim Nick Fuentes is dangerous/problematic/etc so i'm asking for evidence. 

I think leading a political movement which rhetoric includes killing Jews is bad.

[Tyler Robinson]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I think leading a political movement which rhetoric includes killing Jews is bad.

Did Nick Fuentes talk about killing jews? 

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard  Wow, look at 2:11:0, Chud pulled an image of Leo Gura's ghost form, Jesus!

[Raptorsin7]

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I think leading a political movement which rhetoric includes killing Jews is bad.

Any evidence?

In the video linked Nick called out Destint for saying claiming that Nick wanted to genocide Jews. Then Destiny obfuscated and backtracked like a coward

My guess is that if you opened your mind to Nick Fuentes then you would be ostracized by people in University. So it makes sense why you can't engage in good faith on the topic 

[Carl-Richard]

47 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Any evidence?

In the video linked Nick called out Destint for saying claiming that Nick wanted to genocide Jews. Then Destiny obfuscated and backtracked like a coward

The frame of "show me direct quotes where he explicitly states his position" I don't think is important here. What is important is whether it's reasonable to entertain his views or not, and that involves these red flags (with swastikas on them): he has explicitly stated that he deliberately hides his true views, has made claims that denies aspects of the historical legitimacy of the holocaust, has endorsed violent solutions against those with power (who he believes to be Jews); which is, if not itself a reason to not entertain his views, an indication that he might be an actual nazi who wants to kill Jews, and if so certainly a good reason to not entertain his views.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Raptorsin7]

11 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The frame of "show me direct quotes where he explicitly stakes out his position" I don't think is important here. What is important is whether it's reasonable to entertain his views or not, and that involves these red flags (with swastikas on them): he has explicitly stated that he deliberately hides his true views, has made claims that denies aspects of the historical legitimacy of the holocaust, has endorsed violent solutions against those with power (who he believes to be Jews), which is, if not itself a reason to not entertain his views, an indication that he might be an actual nazi who wants to kill Jews, and if so certainly a good reason to not entertain his views.

I'm asking for any evidence, it doesn't have to be explicit.

But we aren't getting anywhere. I think if you open your mind and listen to Nick without prejudice you will see all your points are nonsense.

[Raptorsin7]

@Carl-Richard What would happen if you went to your professors or peers at University and said I'm open minded towards this guy Nick Fuentes, and then you showed them a video?

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I'm asking for any evidence, it doesn't have to be explicit.

But we aren't getting anywhere. I think if you open your mind and listen to Nick without prejudice you will see all your points are nonsense.

You're asking me for a picture of a camouflaged animal when I'm saying you should use your ears, or in fact that you should've smelled it already. If somebody is merely flirting with aspects of nazi rhetoric, that is all you need to know.

[Raptorsin7]

7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You're asking me for a picture of a camouflaged animal when I'm saying you should use your ears, or in fact that you should've smelled it already. If somebody is merely flirting with aspects of nazi rhetoric, that is all you need to know.

Okay then give me evidence of what sounds are problematic, or what smells I should have already smelled.

Dude your arguments are so weak. Someone could use nazi rhetoric in a very limited way because they know its provocative. I'm not saying he's definitely not a nazi, but your argument that he is a nazi is weak.

It makes sense to question stuff like the traditional narrative of the holocaust too. What are the odds the main stream story is actually the truth about what happened. Seems very unlikely. According to your view if you even question the holocaust you are essentially a nazi and should be dismissed.

 

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Carl-Richard What would happen if you went to your professors or peers at University and said I'm open minded towards this guy Nick Fuentes, and then you showed them a video?

Back to my first comment in this thread: if you're openminded towards nazism, that says something about your values. They would think your values are fucked. You can be smart, articulate, and charismatic and still have fucked up values. This is what Hitler was. This is what Nick Fuentes is. This is what Andrew Tate is.

...and yes, of course whether some values are fucked or not is relative to who says it. However, a bigger problem is if you're holding contradictory values. For instance, if somebody like Destiny is really compelling to you, but someone like Nick is also really compelling (two intellectually rigorous individuals who seem to hold internally consistent value systems which contradict each other), you're probably holding contradictory values.