Nick Fuentes vs Destiny Immigration Debate Revisited

[Raptorsin7]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Back to my first comment in this thread: if you're openminded towards nazism, that says something about your values. They would think your values are fucked. You can be smart, articulate, and charismatic and still have fucked up values. This is what Hitler was. This is what Nick Fuentes is. This is what Andrew Tate is.

...and yes, of course whether some values are fucked or not is relative to who says it. However, a bigger problem is if you're holding contradictory values. For instance, if somebody like Destiny is really compelling to you, but someone like Nick is also really compelling (two intellectually rigorous individuals who seem to hold internally consistent value systems which contradict each other), you're probably holding contradictory values.

See you are completely close minded to anything related to Nazism. That's why you can't have the conversation in good faith.

Nothing is purely good or bad. Nazis are not pure evil. There is a reason they got so much power and had so much support. I'm not saying I fully understand it, but I am at least open minded enough to not dismiss something without understanding it.

As long as you are in environment where being open to the truth can be demonized you'll never be able to have these kinds of conversations in a productive way.

I think Nick is much smarter and more conscious than Destiny. Ask yourself who is more at peace? Nick or Destiny.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Raptorsin7

[Carl-Richard]

37 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Okay then give me evidence of what sounds are problematic, or what smells I should have already smelled.

Sounds = taking the red flags which is him flirting with aspects of nazi rhetoric and inferring that he might be an actual nazi, and then deciding to not entertain his views.

Smells = taking the red flags as they are, and then deciding to not entertain his views.

 

28 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

See you are completely close minded to anything related to Nazism. That's why you can't have the conversation in good faith.

Am I close-minded about being against killing Jews for being Jews? Yes. I don't think you'll convince me on that one.

 

28 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Nothing is purely good or bad. Nazis are not pure evil. There is a reason they got so much power and had so much support. I'm not saying I fully understand it, but I am at least open minded enough to not dismiss something without understanding it.

As long as you are in environment where being open to the truth can be demonized you'll never be able to have these kinds of conversations in a productive way.

Are you open-minded about nuking the entire planet right now?

 

28 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I think Nick is much smarter and more conscious than Destiny. Ask yourself who is more at peace? Nick or Destiny.

I think Nick is 10 years younger than Destiny and that there is a good chance he'll be somebody else by that time. Destiny used to be pretty conservative. But again; being smart, articulate, charismatic does not grant you good values. Super-smart people experience just as much child indoctrination, self-bias and trauma as we do. I mean for fuck's sake, Chris Langan has 200 IQ and gets into email fights about who has the biggest conceptual dick.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Raptorsin7]

@Carl-Richard You have to give me some actual evidence of any these jew killing claims.

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Am I close-minded about being against killing Jews for being Jews? Yes. I don't think you'll convince me on that one.

Where does he say he wants to kill jews for just being jews?

ANYTHING. 

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Are you open-minded about nuking the entire planet right now?

No I see no value in that.

But that's not in the same universe as what i've seen form Nick. 

The worst thing you can say so far is he questions the traditional narratives around the holocaust and he's anti zionist. And he made a provocative joke about killing Jews, but then again destiny said nig*** when he was making a chain saw noise so if we want to read into jokes we can do that.

6 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I think Nick is 10 years younger than Destiny and that there is a good chance he'll be somebody else by that time. Destiny used to be pretty conservative. But again; being smart, articulate, charismatic does not grant you good values. Super-smart people experience just as much child indoctrination, self-bias and trauma as we do. I mean for fuck's sake, Chris Langan has 200 IQ and gets into email fights about who has the biggest conceptual dick.

I think until you are outside of an environment where truth=social suicide you can never engage in good faith on these topics.

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Carl-Richard You have to give me some actual evidence of any these jew killing claims.

If somebody merely flirts with nazi rhetoric, especially when they've EXPLICITLY stated that they will not reveal their most radical views, then that is more than enough for me to discard them. If you don't, then you should probably answer why, because that tells you more about you than about me. What; a huge New-Age lib like me is concerned about somebody being a potential nazi? Wow! — who would've guessed? But a guy who frequents the same community who isn't? Well yeah, that's more interesting.

[Raptorsin7]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

If somebody merely flirts with nazi rhetoric, especially when they've EXPLICITLY stated that they will not reveal their most radical views, then that is more than enough for me to discard them. If you don't, then you should probably answer why, because that tells you more about you than about me. What; a huge New-Age lib like me is concerned about somebody being a potential nazi? Wow! — who would've guessed? But a guy who frequents the same community who isn't? Well yeah, that's more interesting.

It's because you're completely close minded to the word nazi. I bet the truth about who the Nazi's were has been white washed by history, and the reality is much different than what we've been brain washed to believe. But I don't know for certain at this point, it's hard to find sources on this stuff.

I am not worried because I am a genuine truth seeker. I trust my intuition about what's real, and at this point my intuition has pointed me towards Nick Fuentes. I think the guy has likely been unfairly demonized. My intuition also pointed me towards Vipassana retreats and spending extended time in ashrams and in silent contemplation. 99% of people who call Nick a nazi and demonize him are unconscious, so that makes me skeptical right away.

The same reason you gave up spirituality because you fear the experience of losing control is the same reason you can't see this issue clearly. Fundamental dishonesty. 

[Carl-Richard]

Does he actually want to genocide the Jews? If I'm supposed to know that by judging his sincere words, then I don't know that, and again, that's by design, but I know that there is nobody with the same level of political influence as Nick Fuentes who is more likely to genocide the Jews than Nick Fuentes.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Raptorsin7]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

Does he actually want to genocide the Jews? If I'm supposed to know that by judging his sincere words, then I don't know that, and again, that's by design, but I know that there is nobody with the same level of political influence as Nick Fuentes who is more likely to genocide the Jews than Nick Fuentes.

Hopefully Destiny keeps doing more streams with Nick so this kind of reactionary demonization will be less common.

You don't really know anything about the guy, other than what dishonest destiny has spewed about him, and yet you are so confident in smearing the guy

[Carl-Richard]

6 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

The same reason you gave up spirituality because you fear the experience of losing control is the same reason you can't see this issue clearly. Fundamental dishonesty. 

No because I care about my values. "Woah guys, this dude is afraid of death and eternal egolessness! Wow, what a dishonest guy!"

Edited August 29, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Raptorsin7 said:

Hopefully Destiny keeps doing more streams with Nick so this kind of reactionary demonization will be less common.

You don't really know anything about the guy, other than what dishonest destiny has spewed about him, and yet you are so confident in smearing the guy

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/nick-fuentes

Is this also a smear? How do you know Nick Fuentes? Do you truly know who his? Are you trusting him on his word? Can you even do that?

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Carl-Richard said:

No because I care about my values.

Yeah, you value dishonesty over the truth. Hence why you gave up spirituality. 

"The truth is too scary so I'm going to go back to a dishonest life because I can't handle it". - This is the core of why we cannot find common ground.

[Carl-Richard]

22 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Yeah, you value dishonesty over the truth. Hence why you gave up spirituality. 

"The truth is too scary so I'm going to go back to a dishonest life because I can't handle it". - This is the core of why we cannot find common ground.

I think this is a rather irrelevant ad hominem. The intellect runs on logic and bias. None of them have to do with Absolute Truth. That is why mystics steer away from the intellect. Me being consistent with my own values is a question of logic and bias.

I'm honest about fearing death and egolessness because I know what it is. I've experienced it every day for over 2 years. Are you?

Edited August 29, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Raptorsin7]

@Carl-Richard My point is the reason we can't find common ground is because you fundamentally don't value truth.

When people speak about ego death it's hard because I can't know what you mean.

I've had psychidelic trips where it was clear I'm not a human in the way I thought, and I realized when you fully surrender it's all good and pure bliss

At this point the path is unfolding on it's own for me, I can't really stop the process nor would i want to.

Maybe because I know it's all good that's why I don't have the same aversion to the truth idk.

[Raptorsin7]

@Carl-Richard And actually you don't know what death and egolessnes are.

If you really knew you wouldn't be avoiding the truth at every turn 

[Carl-Richard]

46 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

My point is the reason we can't find common ground is because you fundamentally don't value truth.

Firstly, spiritual truth is not conceptual truth, so me fearing the former does not mean I fear the latter. Secondly, there is no way to determine which value system is the best one. It depends on bias and survival. There is no "truth" to be found there. When I say nazis have fucked up values, I say that because my values are very different. What I'm really doing here is probing for an internal inconsistency in your values, as you seem conflicted about these two very different value systems.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Tyler Robinson]

That Nick Fuentes guy is a racist, right wing homophobe. 

 

[Carl-Richard]

30 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Carl-Richard And actually you don't know what death and egolessnes are.

If you really knew you wouldn't be avoiding the truth at every turn 

Sure. I just believe I'm dying, usually at several points during the day, where my mind becomes totally silent, my movements become automatic, everything in my visual field becomes in focus, and time disappears. I love it and I fear it. I spent the last of my meditation days like that: just barely submerging myself in a no-mind/no-body state and then quickly out again... until I could no longer get out.

It's also funny that I feel like you're trying to make me feel ashamed that I don't want to die, because I know when I actually get into that state, there is no one to be ashamed. Like, why should I try to get rid of the shame when the end result of that means there is no one to be ashamed in the first place? I won't get to have the experience of getting rid of the shame. "I'll show you". Who "I"? Show who? 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Raptorsin7]

@Carl-Richard I'm pointing out why we have a disagreement. You were on the path to truth and then you abandoned it because you couldn't handle it.

If you valued the truth my prediction is you wouldn't have such weak arguments about nick Fuentes. Dishonesty will cloud your perception at every turn.

Can you at least provide some concrete evidence of what is so problematic about what he says. That way we can have some semblance of a productive dialogue.

Nick said x, or here nick is being shady, etc.

We can use the SPLC article, what specific points in that article are sufficient to prove he's evil/bad

Edited August 30, 2022 by Raptorsin7

[Carl-Richard]

35 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Carl-Richard I'm pointing out why we have a disagreement. You were on the path to truth and then you abandoned it because you couldn't handle it.

If you valued the truth my prediction is you wouldn't have such weak arguments about nick Fuentes. Dishonesty will cloud your perception at every turn.

Bro, me choosing to stop meditating has nothing to do with how logically sound my conceptual argumentation is. I'm refusing to entertain nazism because I have a set of values which deeply conflict with those of nazism, thus entertaining them would lead to an internal contradiction. The internal contradiction is determinable by logic, but adopting that specific set of values is not. I just don't see any scenario where killing Jews for the crime of being Jewish would be in alignment with my values. If you call that closemindedness, well, good luck with your internally inconsistent value system.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Raptorsin7]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Bro, me choosing to stop meditating has nothing to do with how logically sound my conceptual argumentation is. I'm refusing to entertain nazism because I have a set of values which deeply conflict with those of nazism, thus entertaining them would lead to an internal contradiction. The internal contradiction is determinable by logic, but adopting that specific set of values is not. I just don't see any scenario where killing jews for the crime of being Jewish would be in alignment with my values. If you call that closemindedness, well, good luck with your internally inconsistent value system.

You think it doesn't, but if you are on a genuine path of truth it will inform every part of your life.

You are such a bad faith arguer. Nick Fuentes out right denied the desire to genocide jews and yet you are using that as the lynch pin of your argument.

Good luck with your logically consistent omni liberal style value system. Maybe you'll end with a sociopathic wife and a social circle of autistic clout chasers too

[Carl-Richard]

12 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

You are such a bad faith arguer. Nick Fuentes out right denied the desire to genocide jews and yet you are using that as the lynch pin of your argument.

I don't particularly care what Nick wants you to think he is. I mostly care about what his actions say about him. The fact that he even has to spend a millisecond to deny that he wants to genocide the Jews is already too much. But sure, ride that high-consciousness Nazi train. See if you can turn Nick on to meditation and that his next rally be at the SAND conference alongside Rupert Spira etc. ?

Edited August 30, 2022 by Carl-Richard