Nick Fuentes vs Destiny Immigration Debate Revisited

[Raptorsin7]

I first heard of Nick Fuentes a few years ago on Destiny, and I dismissed him as right wing, white supremacist. I've become more open minded and i'm considering some of his arguments, and now I find myself reflecting on what he's saying.

Do you think Destiny is doing harm by platforming a white supremacist? And is Nick Fuentes as far right as you can go, or do you believe him when he says he's not a racist/nazi etc?

It's interesting how Nick Fuentes is actually much more developed than Destiny in certain respects. He is active in politics and has enough integrity to follow through in trying to make his worldview a reality. I have noticed that there are a few conscious people who end up going down right wing rabit holes, so it always made me wonder where the legitimacy of their view point is. 

[Yarco]

6 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

And is Nick Fuentes as far right as you can go, or do you believe him when he says he's not a racist/nazi etc?

He's nowhere near as far right as you can go. He's a little further right than Lauren Southern and Stephen Molyneux but not by a whole lot. Just a part of the same alt-right pipeline as Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan, Steven Crowder, etc that will eventually lead you to the actual white supremacists and nazis. 

Destiny has debated actual nazis before, but Fuentes ain't it.

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Do you think Destiny is doing harm by platforming a white supremacist?

Yes because from your post it's clear you're becoming open-minded to Nick's ideas and moving further to the right which is dangerous . A section of his audience will always gravitate toward whatever guest he talks to.

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much more developed than Destiny in certain respects. He is active in politics and has enough integrity to follow through in trying to make his worldview a reality.

idk Destiny got his community to go out and do door-to-door canvassing for a Democrat politician in Nebraska, he seems like he actually follows through too.

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Yarco

[Carl-Richard]

When you look at smart people and ask yourself how their values can be so different from your own, you learn that some values are just chosen a priori and indoctrinated into you as a child, and then you're stuck defending those values as your intellect grows. So-called "reasoning out your worldview from first principles" is not a thing.

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

When you look at smart people and ask yourself how their values can be so different from your own, you learn that some values are just chosen a priori and indoctrinated into you as a child, and then you're stuck defending those values as your intellect grows. So-called "reasoning out your worldview from first principles" is not a thing.

   This is very true. In fact, as a ratio it is mostly the case that most intelligent humans are a priori and indoctrinated and imprinted by however they're upbringing family structure and cultural upbringing is, which then creates a deep assumption of reality, which then creates the need to use logic to layer a meta program that defends those deeply indoctrinated ideas of other people and world. 

[Raptorsin7]

@Carl-Richard @Yarco @Danioover9000 What always interested me was how as people got more conscious they get deeper into right wing conspiracies, conservative values etc

@TJ Reeves Used to post on the forum, and I had a few conversations with him a few years ago, and he's deep into Zionist conspiracies, LGBTQ stuff, more conservative, etc. And I'd be surprised if anyone on this forum can look at what he's achieved and experienced and say he's not conscious and highly developed. He told he me was a BLM organizer at his University, but then realized the organization was bull shit.

This guy was steps ahead of basically everyone on the forum and that was 5 years ago.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Raptorsin7

[Danioover9000]

@Raptorsin7

43 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Carl-Richard @Yarco @Danioover9000 What always interested me was how as people got more conscious they get deeper into right wing conspiracies, conservative values etc

@TJ Reeves Used to post on the forum, and I had a few conversations with him a few years ago, and he's deep into Zionist conspiracies, LGBTQ stuff, more conservative, etc. And I'd be surprised if anyone on this forum can look at what he's achieved and experienced and say he's not conscious and highly developed. He told he me was a BLM organizer at his University, but then realized the organization was bull shit.

This guy was steps ahead of basically everyone on the forum and that was 5 years ago.

   There of course exists exceptions to the rules and average. A long time ago, Aztec priests would sacrifice captured men to their sun god, in their view that ritual was sacred. Aztec non-duality and how that culture practices spirituality is pretty brutal, yet a few of them are enlightened. Charles Manson is arguably also enlightened, except due to his stage of development, cognitive and moral development, personality typing, life experiences, other lines of development, and the cultural, social, political, religious and other social elements that make up his metaphysics and epistemology and meta programming of his mind, he came off very charismatic and had that spiritual presence, but he manipulates and kills people who go against his agenda.

[Carl-Richard]

 

They're talking about Destiny's recent IRL streams with Nick, and Mr.Girl wants Destiny to hold Nick more to account for his views.

I wrote a comment after pausing at 2:04:00:

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The idea that "words have different meanings depending on the context" is such a bad argument, because you can just provide the definition while you're saying the word, like "I think you're a nazi, i.e. somebody who wants to genocide jews", and then continue the conversation. You're not being held hostage by the frame. You can control the frame, and then Nick cannot take advantage of it.

Then 40 minutes later, at 2:48:55, that was the exact argument that made Destiny reconsider. Imagine if I could've jumped in and saved 40 minutes of spinning in the mud 

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

 

They're talking about Destiny's recent IRL streams with Nick, and Mr.Girl wants Destiny to hold Nick more to account for his views.

I wrote a comment after pausing at 2:04:00:

Then 40 minutes later, at 2:48:55, that was the exact argument that made Destiny reconsider. Imagine if I could've jumped in and saved 40 minutes of spinning in the mud 

   Wow, good spot! You are getting better and better the more you study Spiral Dynamics and other related modals. One day I'll be in those videos, talking to Mr. Girl or Destiny.

[Raptorsin7]

How many millions of white Americans sympathize with this guy?

If you think in terms of the world population, the vast majority of people would see nothing wrong with the racial majority wanting to maintain their majority in their nation. But in America this guy is radio active. 

Is there any way to integrate this guy's ideology into acceptable politics. I don't see how just sweeping this ideology under the rug will work in the long run. These guys just go underground and nothing really changes about their commitment and dedication to their ideology. 

It's interesting because I am going down the alt right pipeline. I used to completely dismiss guys like Nick Fuentes and Richard Spencer but as i've gotten more conscious I find myself more interested in what they're saying. Weird.

 

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

It's interesting because I am going down the alt right pipeline. I used to completely dismiss guys like Nick Fuentes and Richard Spencer but as i've gotten more conscious I find myself more interested in what they're saying. Weird.

Nick Fuentes wants to kill all jews.

[Raptorsin7]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

Nick Fuentes wants to kill all jews.

That's a straw man. I am almost certain he would admit he doesn't want all jews dead.

I bet it's closer to like he doesn't want Jews to have disproportionate influence over global affairs, and he would be killing to some Jews who try to maintain their authority.

[Carl-Richard]

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

That's a straw man. I am almost certain he would admit he doesn't want all jews dead.

I bet it's closer to like he doesn't want Jews to have disproportionate influence over global affairs, and he would be killing to some Jews who try to maintain their authority.

The fact that you actually don't know that is the problem.

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Carl-Richard said:

The fact that you actually don't know that is the problem.

Where is the evidence of him saying he wants all Jews dead?

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Raptorsin7 said:

Where is the evidence of him saying he wants all Jews dead?

When you think that Jews rule the world and you say "who runs the media? Globalists. Time to kill the globalists" or "what can you and I do to a state legislator—besides kill them?", or when your rhetoric is indistinguishable from that of a nazi (white supremacy, holocaust denial, antisemitism etc.) and you've stated explicitly that you're deliberately hiding your true views, and that you're constantly seen hiding behind irony and jokes, it sort of says itself.

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Carl-Richard said:

When you think that Jews rule the world and you say "who runs the media? Globalists. Time to kill the globalists" or "what can you and I do to a state legislator—besides kill them?", or when your rhetoric is indistinguishable from that of a nazi (white supremacy, holocaust denial, antisemitism etc.) and you've stated explicitly that you're deliberately hiding your true views, and that you're constantly seen hiding behind irony and jokes, it sort of says itself.

So, you have no evidence for your claim?

Wanting to murder all jews is very different from wanting to overthrow a globalist world order headed by Jews.

 

[Roy]

44 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

he doesn't want all jews dead.

Just some lol?

[Carl-Richard]

24 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

So, you have no evidence for your claim?

Wanting to murder all jews is very different from wanting to overthrow a globalist world order headed by Jews.

How many Jews is that exactly?

[Raptorsin7]

2 minutes ago, Roy said:

Just some lol?

haha. I think according to his world view there are a small number of zionist jews who are influencing global affairs so he probably wants them dead.

You are not arguing in good faith of you take that statement and draw the conclusion he wants to murder all Jews.

I'm not evens saying for sure that he doesn't want all jews dead. I just want to see evidence, not speculation.

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Carl-Richard said:

How many Jews is that exactly?

You made an incredible claim and when pressed provided no real evidence.

I know you're not trolling me so i don't see the point of going down this rabbit hole with you.

Can you provide evidence of him saying he wants to actually murder any Jews?

 

[Carl-Richard]

6 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

You made an incredible claim and when pressed provided no real evidence.

I know you're not trolling me so i don't see the point of going down this rabbit hole with you.

Can you provide evidence of him saying he wants to actually murder any Jews?

If the amount of jews is not clearly stated, that is a problem.

Is your idea of evidence him saying his true views explicitly? Do you not see the problem with that given what I've just said? He thrives on ambiguity.

Here is an idea: if there is even a slight indication that somebody might want to kill just any amount of Jews, should that not be enough to completely disregard them?

Edited August 29, 2022 by Carl-Richard