Andrew Tate - Good or corrupted message for society??

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, aurum said:

I would love to see the Venn diagram of Trump supporters and Tate fans.

It would be a circle.

Tate is a big fan of Trump (obviously). From what I read he even hung out with Trump Jr.

Most of the Manosphere will be Trump fans.

[UpperMaster]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes and no. It also depends on how he is spreading it and the collateral damage the spread causes.

That's cause you're lost in a fog of self-centeredness and too self-absorbed to see the larger systemic consequences. You are looking at the situation in terms of what is personally good for you. But you are not the only stakeholder in this matter. If you considered the female perspective at all you would see how problematic Tate's content is. And the female perspective is far from the only consideration here. Tate not only exploits females, he also exploits males, and the broader social media ecosystem.

Mhmm. Yes I see your point, red-pill misogynist culture spread their values to the youth, who grow up to be more misogynist. As I said, I overall disagree with many of the ideas he has on woman.

I don't understand what you mean by "exploit females and he also exploits males", he has certain values but there is no exploitation of people. Yes pyramid schemes are not an honest way to make money whatsoever (good point you made here), but unlike majority of other pyramid schemes, there is a very solid commission rate in hustlers university ergo people are not exploited.

It seems to me that he definitely isn't the best role model as he does make money through cheap ploys, but I don't think this should cancel out his core message for responsibility, which is majority of his content. 

 

[UpperMaster]

1 hour ago, Hello from Russia said:

Why is everyone so hyper about this guy, he speaks the same stage orange nonsense everybody else in mainstream society talk about

Ahahaha, yea well I was curious to have another perspective here. People around me either kiss Tate's ass or hate his guts. Both sides emotional.

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, UpperMaster said:

There is no emotional music, he was affected by the ban, he does say so. He might be deeply insecure, honestly I don't know. I posted this because he has had a huge impact in real life (he has become a sensation among youth), and I wanted to here your opinions on what the ramifications are.

 

This part of your reply basically says your opinion, you do think he is slimy and a bad influence.

You are drawn to him because he is popular. You do realize Hitler was popular right? President Trump is also immensely popular as well. Good and bad is subjective. On the grand scale of things he serves a purpose. His purpose is to increase the devilry so that they can burn through their karma faster. So in the absolute grand scheme of things he is very beneficial. 

But if you can't figure out whether someone like Tate is beneficial and you need others to "tell" you then how are you being a leader?

Notice your questions about whether he is beneficial or not scream out that you don't know how to figure out if someone's teachings are devilry or not. Look if you don't know experiment. Go try him out for yourself and just be willing to accept the consequences that come with emulating a guy like Tate. I won't judge, remember experience is the best teacher. 

[UpperMaster]

51 minutes ago, Leo Palhano said:

this. it's actually funny to think about people who do the work Leo talks about in his videos enjoying Tate's content. Its basically as broken and blatantly stupid as Trump in politics.

The question wasn't about the impact Tate's content has on people in this forum but on his effect on society. Huge value difference between Tate and Leo, can't compare. I just recognized that people here were less emotional, and more informed and was curious to what you guys think. It is a time pass topic, but when I asked a bunch of people I just get one sided emotive responses.

[Tyler Robinson]

@UpperMaster I think you can probably get some stage Red stuff from him about success but much of it would be based on grifting, I don't know how far that would take you. Some people who are too desperate and don't care about morality as long as what they get might actually see the appeal with this dude.. But his success is not for the long term. Because long term success is based on something you build. Not on boasting. If you thought that life is totally meaningless then you might actually find value with his lifestyle because at the end of the day Stage Red focuses on getting what they want by any means. Although it can do collective harm, it is useful for the person who is doing it. I'm kinda confused when it comes to morality because it's very Stage blue and I don't like that, anything that contributes to everyone's wellbeing is good 

 

[Leo Gura]

52 minutes ago, UpperMaster said:

I don't understand what you mean by "exploit females and he also exploits males", he has certain values but there is no exploitation of people.

I mean stuff exactly like this:

It would behoove you to look up the definition of the word "hustler".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hustler

Quote

"One who obtains money by fraud or deceit."

That's exactly what Tate is. And you fell for his hustle.

[benny]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I mean stuff exactly like this:

It would behoove you to look up the definition of the word "hustler".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hustler

That's exactly what Tate is. And you fell for his hustle.

This guy is confessing to being a pimp and a swindler on camera. What more do you need to see his complete lack of integrity?

 

Thanks for posting this Leo.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, benny said:

Thanks for posting this Leo.

Someone posted it in the Politics subforum. I just re-posted it.

[Leo Palhano]

1 hour ago, UpperMaster said:

The question wasn't about the impact Tate's content has on people in this forum but on his effect on society. Huge value difference between Tate and Leo, can't compare. I just recognized that people here were less emotional, and more informed and was curious to what you guys think. It is a time pass topic, but when I asked a bunch of people I just get one sided emotive responses.

what @Tyler Robinson said on this thread, also down below. In a nutshell, Tate's content for society = a negative feedback loop of misogyny, hustling, exploitation and other unhealthy spiral dynamics' stage orange stuff that impede our growth as a global community of conscious beings in symbiosis with nature.

 

[Limo]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I mean stuff exactly like this:

It would behoove you to look up the definition of the word "hustler".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hustler

That's exactly what Tate is. And you fell for his hustle.

Perfect. 

[flyingguitarist]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I mean stuff exactly like this:

It would behoove you to look up the definition of the word "hustler".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hustler

That's exactly what Tate is. And you fell for his hustle.

Lol ?thanks Now I know what "Hustler's University" actually mean. I've checked  other definitions and woah now i realised Andrew is a  genius in his craft. PhD professor of Hustle

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, flyingguitarist said:

Andrew is a  genius in his craft.

A true genius wouldn't get banned from every social media platform on the planet.

[Nilsi]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No. Not even close.

Any business that behaves like Tate's would get extreme backlash and boycotts.

The are making the classic fool's mistake of confusing popularity with something good. This kind of foolishness is exactly what Tate's success preys on.

Initially I thought Tate's cancellation was excessive. Now it's obvious he had to be banned off these platforms because he was exploiting them like a parasite and he was not going to stop unless he was banned.

I guess "every big brand" is a stretch, but the biggest players are doing precisely what Andrew does: manufacturing demand, exploiting algorithms, being parasitic. Andrew just showed the world how to do it properly lol. I don't have to support his politics or views on society to respect what he did. He played the game masterfully, as ruthless and selfish as he may be.

Trump took decades to reach that kind of power and seriously screwed over hundreds and thousands of people and businesses. As far as I'm concerned, Andrew didn't harm anyone, except for maybe some fools that take his words to literally, and the girls that now have to suffer these fools - and that's probably balanced by the people who genuinely got something positive out of his talks.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Nilsi

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

I don't have to support his politics or views on society to respect what he did. He played the game masterfully, as ruthless and selfish as he may be.

Respect what he did??

While you're at it, why don't you respect what Epstein did so masterfully?

[Nilsi]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Respect what he did??

While you're at it, why don't you respect what Epstein did so masterfully?

Tbh I can appreciate this kind of hustle on some level. Of course I do not agree with blackmailing and child trafficking and whatever else the guy did, BUT all the plotting, strategizing and organizing such a grand scheme fascinates me, I'm not gonna lie. It's like geopolitics or war - it's a ruthless game, but it's still pretty awesome.

I realize that this is probably not the appropriate level of analysis, but I guess this guilty pleasure and fascination is what is making me sympathize with Tate somehow.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Nilsi

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

BUT all the plotting, strategizing and organizing such a grand scheme fascinates me, I'm not gonna lie.

I hope you extend me the same respect and admiration when I rape your daughter.

[undeather]

There is no doubt in my mind that Tate is or was involved in many shady/unethical business enterprises over the years and there is an appropriate amount of criticism to be dealt there. However, reality is just more nuanced than that and it's quiet astonishing how fast some individuals recoil to their tribalistic, black or whtie tendencies as soon as his name gets mentioned. To be clear, I personally DON'T think that Tate is a valid role model for younger generations. I have criticized him before, his views on women are regressive and his take on mental health is, if not complteley wrong, then highly partial at minimum. 

The fact is that none of you know him. You dont know his "real" intentions. You just dont. You might think you do, but you dont. If you cant see this, then you need to work on your sensemaking ecology.  All you have are clips, some long form podcast episodes and a tiny amount of objectifiable facts. Everything else is filled by your projection and lack of critical thinking/research. Now if you judge him from the limited amount of information we have, then you can't come to either concluson. There is shady shit but also likeable stuff. He could be a dark triad narcissist OR he is just stuck at a certain level of conciousness which he acts out coherently. 

It's funny to me that Leo, a guy who has to deal with constant misrepresentation all over the internet, cant quiet grasp the scope of the situation. If you comb through all the accusations against Tate in the last months  - anything from rape, human trafficking, misoginy or simply being an asshole, then none of them really hold up to scrutiny. It's mostly exaggerated, taken out of context or made up completely. In fact, there are reports of women AND men who have met or even worked for him - and you know what...almost unanimously they paint a picture of a man who acts respectful and generous among his fellow human beings. I get this impression too to be honest - he doesn't seem like a very hateful man. He does not act agressive when challenged. He seems to be a man of integrity. 

Now let's get to "Hustler's university" -  it's cringe to be honest. All those "get rich"-courses kinda are.
But is it a scam? I really dont think so. There is content on there and if you are a complete noob at this kind of stuff, then you might get some decent value out of it. 50$ a month for a course is definitely not a scam - I mean just look at all those proclaimed self-help gurusor "coaches" popping up all over the internet right now. 997$ for a course, 300$ for a two hour coaching session, 5000$ for the whole package..... by whom? Mostly nobodies.

I cant believe I have to defend Tate - but most discussions about him are just incredibly one sided and that's wrong. Throughout the last week, I silently observed and read through some posts and this forum and reddit - it's just so obvious that both sides, the haters & the fanboys, mostly act from a emotionally hijacked paradigm. He is heavily centered around a stage orange/blue level of conciousness - and if you want to criticise his views, then this is where to meet him. 

 

[Nilsi]

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I hope you expend me the same respect and admiration when I rape your daughter.

Whatever dude. You are like those TikTok channels that take everything out of context and blow it out of proportion just to make their point. I was obviously not championing rape, I just expressed my appreciation for the dynamics of power and playing that game well.

Ironically you are playing power games as well in this thread, with all your bad faith communication forcing people into a reactive position.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Nilsi

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Whatever dude. You are like those TikTok channels that take everything out of context and blow it out of proportion just to make their point. I was obviously not championing rape, I just expressed my appreciation for the dynamics of power and playing that game well.

Ironically you are playing power games as well in this thread, with all your bad faith communication forcing people into a reactive position.

Not whatever. When your own survival is threatened, suddenly you sing a different tune. Notice that.