Daniel Schmachtenberger, the third attractor part 2

[Oeaohoo]

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

So you're a nihilist is what you're saying?

How on earth is that equivalent to nihilism?

Edited August 24, 2022 by Oeaohoo

[Nilsi]

1 minute ago, Oeaohoo said:

How on earth is that equivalent to nihilism?

You are such an idiot that I feel no need to talk to you any further. Bye bye!

Your premise is that earth and society is basically comparable to hell. If that's your version of love for wisdom, that's pretty sad.

[Oeaohoo]

Just now, Nilsi said:

Your premise is that earth and society is basically comparable to hell. If that's your version of love for wisdom, that's pretty sad.

This earth and this society. Organised degeneracy on a global scale. That is comparable to hell!

[AtheisticNonduality]

11 minutes ago, Oeaohoo said:

How on earth is that equivalent to nihilism?

You are such an ***** that I feel no need to talk to you any further. Bye bye!

Lol please edit this.

[Devin]

You all think you could get society to go along with what Schmachtenberger sells? They wouldn't even take a simple vaccine for a virus that killed their neighbors. A vaccine like the previous 100 they took

Edited August 24, 2022 by Devin

[zurew]

30 minutes ago, Devin said:

You all think you could get society to go along with what Schmachtenberger sells?

Incentives are a key part to their equation, thats why they want to build a system, where incentives are consciously constructed and not random.

[Devin]

1 minute ago, zurew said:

Incentives are a key part to their equation, thats why they want to build a system, where incentives are consciously constructed and not random.

Is there are larger primal incentive than life or death?

[zurew]

8 minutes ago, Devin said:

Is there are larger primal incentive than life or death?

No, but this doesn't suggest or tell us anything. Survival nowadays is vastly different compared to the older times, thats why it matters what system you build.

For example: If you are living in a system where your survival is depended upon fucking up other parties, then of course the whole world will eventually end up in hell.

Edited August 24, 2022 by zurew

[Devin]

1 minute ago, zurew said:

No, but this doesn't suggest or tell us anything. Survival nowadays is vastly different compared to the older times, thats why it matters what system you build.

Yeah, you're missing the boat.

A few problems

-This implies we can control or decide our direction

-This implies we should want to control or decide our direction

[zurew]

6 minutes ago, Devin said:

-This implies we can control or decide our direction

Why would you assume, that we can't?

6 minutes ago, Devin said:

-This implies we should want to control or decide our direction

Why shouldn't we want to decide? Do you live your life randomly, or do you decide what you want to do?

[Devin]

2 minutes ago, zurew said:

Why would you assume, that we can't?

Why shouldn't we want to decide? Do you live your life randomly, or do you decide what you want to do?

We decide what we want to try, we don't decide what happens

[zurew]

1 minute ago, Devin said:

We decide what we want to try, we don't decide what happens

I think the correct answer is that we have some level of agency over what happens and then there are variables that we aren't aware of and we can't do anything about.

Of course we want to focus on things we can have some impact on.

Edited August 24, 2022 by zurew

[Devin]

6 minutes ago, zurew said:

I think the correct answer is that we have some level of agency over what happens and then there are variables that we aren't aware of and we can't do anything about.

I think it's okay to say Daniel is offering something you or he wants to try, the problem I gleen is the compulsion to try to control an outcome, it's like you're saying there's a right and wrong way forward.

The boat is that there's not a "right" way forward

Edited August 24, 2022 by Devin

[zurew]

2 minutes ago, Devin said:

I think it's okay to say Daniel is offering something you or he wants to try, the problem I gleen is the compulsion to try to control an outcome, it's like you're saying there's a right and wrong way forward.

I don't see it as a "compulsion to try to control an outcome", I rather see it as a conscious approach because this approach is about recognising what variables we can have impact on [directly or indirectly] and its about finding the key dynamics and how can we impact those variables in a conscious way.

If i go to school and i want to get a mark 5, i will try to learn as much as I possibly can, while not focusing on things I have no control over (for instance what kind of questions will i get).

 

Now, if you want to argue that the very desire itself is bad or wrong,then we can talk about that, but I think its fair to assume, that most people want to survive and don't want civilization collapse. If we can agree on the desire, then we can start to argue about whats the best possible way to make that happen. 

[Devin]

7 minutes ago, zurew said:

I don't see it as a "compulsion to try to control an outcome", I rather see it as a conscious approach because this approach is about recognising what variables we can have impact on [directly or indirectly] and its about finding the key dynamics and how can we impact those variables in a conscious way.

If i go to school and i want to get a mark 5, i will try to learn as much as I possibly can, while not focusing on things I have no control over (for instance what kind of questions will i get).

 

Now, if you want to argue that the very desire itself is bad or wrong,then we can talk about that, but I think its fair to assume, that most people want to survive and don't want civilization collapse. If we can agree on the desire, then we can start to argue about whats the best possible way to make that happen. 

In this right here what you wrote, you don't see a compulsion to control an outcome? (want to survive, don't want civilization to collapse)

Edited August 24, 2022 by Devin

[Nilsi]

51 minutes ago, Devin said:

Yeah, you're missing the boat.

A few problems

-This implies we can control or decide our direction

-This implies we should want to control or decide our direction

We can.

We should want to, because our current trajectory will lead to self-termination. Of course you can make the case that we will just auto-correct, but this will still have to be carried out by us. 

[zurew]

14 minutes ago, Devin said:

In this right here what you wrote, you don't see a compulsion to control an outcome? (want to survive, don't want civilization to collapse)

I don't understand, why is that wrong/bad to try to consciously influence things that we are influencing unconsciously anyway.

Edited August 24, 2022 by zurew

[Nilsi]

40 minutes ago, Devin said:

I think it's okay to say Daniel is offering something you or he wants to try, the problem I gleen is the compulsion to try to control an outcome, it's like you're saying there's a right and wrong way forward.

The boat is that there's not a "right" way forward

No one is trying to present some kind of final product of what civilization should be. The point is to get clear on which parts of the possibility space are desirable and which not, and then move toward those that are desirable.

[Devin]

1 hour ago, zurew said:

I don't understand, why is that wrong/bad to try to consciously influence things that we are influencing unconsciously anyway.

I didn't say it's wrong or bad, and the influencing things is not the part I put any emphasis on, yeah influence things, that's life.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Devin

[Devin]

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

No one is trying to present some kind of final product of what civilization should be. The point is to get clear on which parts of the possibility space are desirable and which not, and then move toward those that are desirable.

The "which are desirable and which are not"

Desire, as in the outcome you want right?

Edited August 24, 2022 by Devin