Why is cheating considered okay?

[no_name]

23 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

You see this is a logistics problem. Most people are rude and could care less about someone's feelings, much less fall in love and maintain integrity. How many people do you think are really interested in spreading love in this world. You will see selfish assholes everywhere who wouldn't lose a single opportunity to slice you with a knife. 

This is not true. You only think it is true because of your life experiences. There are wonderful, authentic people out there, who care for others and truly love and support the people in their life. You just haven't met those people because you're too busy thinking about some loser who thinks "cheating is ok". Even if you do meet those people, you don't recognize the gem in front of you, because you need the familiar drama and instability - remember that water always seeks its own level.

It is actually very hard for people who lived their life full of drama to be drama free all of sudden, it feels uncomfortable, you literally need to learn to make peace with the peace. For people who have abandonment issues or other kind of childhood trauma, having no attention is worse than negative attention. And negative attention is what feels so familiar. Most of the time, the only kind of attention they would get as children is negative attention, and that is what they keep craving.

23 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

I came from a broken family, a traumatized background, I always had to deal with the shittiest people, the worst kind, I had to deal with men who gave me death threats, the trailer trash types. It was difficult for me to meet half decent people. Because I came from poverty. 

When you come from shitty backgrounds it truly messes up your whole psychology. It's very unfortunate, but you will have to do a shit ton of work to fix your life, figure out what truly is "normal", rebuild your whole identity and worldview. You are already better off than many people, because at least you are able to recognize that the upbringing you had was not "normal". Many people come from abusive families and live all their lives thinking it was all their fault, and that their family is "good"  it's just that there is something fundamentally "wrong" with them that they can't seem to get their life together. When you build a house on a shitty foundation, the smallest windstorm will be able to bring it down, you need to patch that foundation. 

 

 

[no_name]

10 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Yes, what you propose is a bad idea. But that is not what I am proposing. And it actually is possible to influence others in tremendous ways, if one is capable of radiating genuine love. The way most people attempt to fix others has nothing to do with love. Most people are too stuck in their own suffering to help anyone. Like you for example, I can sense fear and suffering in you, that would makes you blind and ignorant to the suffering of others. Your mind does not allow you to be open-hearted, because it has to fear to protect itself from the suffering of this world.

And of course, wisdom is a requirement here, too. The idea of fixing someone is an idea stemming from the resistance towards what is. That is not Love.

I am telling you not to tell someone who has deep relationship issues:

"I was able to heave them out of the depths of hell because I was able to interact with them in a mature way"

This person is years away from being:

"someone who can bring out the potential in people"

She needs to focus on herself and leave any person who has any small hints of toxicity in them behind. 

10 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Like you for example, I can sense fear and suffering in you, that would makes you blind and ignorant to the suffering of others. Your mind does not allow you to be open-hearted, because it has to fear to protect itself from the suffering of this world.

Also, judging on your personal attacks and passive aggression on someone you know nothing about, I truly doubt you actually walk the walk. Your ego is triggered because I challenged your opinion, so you needed to lash out on me. 

 

 

 

[Scholar]

7 minutes ago, no_name said:

I am telling you not to tell someone who has deep relationship issues:

"I was able to heave them out of the depths of hell because I was able to interact with them in a mature way"

This person is years away from being:

"someone who can bring out the potential in people"

She needs to focus on herself and leave any person who has any small hints of toxicity in them behind. 

Sure, good that you pointed that out!

Though I think it can give them some motivation knowing that it is possible, and usually people are very resistant to the idea of leaving a relationship if it's their own comfort that prevents intense suffering.

 

7 minutes ago, no_name said:

Also, judging on your personal attacks and passive aggression on someone you know nothing about, I truly doubt you actually walk the walk. Your ego is triggered because I challenged your opinion, so you needed to lash out on me. 

I'm not trying to be passive aggressive at all, just point out what I am certain of. Maybe I should not be as certain of it as I am, but your responses only nudge me further into that direction. I do have a tendency to mirror people's energy, so there is probably something you can extract about yourself from my interactions with you.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Scholar

[no_name]

28 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I'm not trying to be passive aggressive at all, just point out what I am certain of. Maybe I should not be as certain of it as I am, but your responses only nudge me further into that direction. I do have a tendency to mirror people's energy, so there is probably something you can extract about yourself from my interactions with you.

Yea I don’t buy it.

[Scholar]

32 minutes ago, no_name said:

Yea I don’t buy it.

It's fine, we seem to both not quite trust each other's words, lol. Always more to learn, especially these conversations on forums can be quite challenging for me because I am an intuitive person, and I think I don't come off as well on text.

[puporing]

@Scholar Yes I think that when someone has enough what you might call "baseline character", but obviously has some unprocessed pain/trauma that is causing them to behave in certain dysfunctional/unloving ways, there is room there for healing in the relationship and if yourself can recognize that it's not "their essential being" but a wounded energy that wants to lash out. It takes great patience and sometimes you may be tempted to give up. It's always nice to hear there are people out there who would stick around and guide the other person towards more love and healing. 

[no_name]

9 minutes ago, puporing said:

@Scholar Yes I think that when someone has enough what you might call "baseline character", but obviously has some unprocessed pain/trauma that is causing them to behave in certain dysfunctional/unloving ways, there is room there for healing in the relationship and if yourself can recognize that it's not "their essential being" but a wounded energy that wants to lash out. It takes great patience and sometimes you may be tempted to give up. It's always nice to hear there are people out there who would stick around and guide the other person towards more love and healing. 

This type of advice though, is the worst advice possible to give to this girl right now. I was this girl, and if someone told me that back then, all I would hear is “it’s ok to be around toxic people” and “you should give everyone a chance” - when this is the last thing someone in her situation should do.

Its the concept of “I’m ok, you’re ok”

There are 4 types of relationship dynamics:

1. I am ok, you’re ok

2. I am ok, you’re not ok

3. I am not ok, you’re ok

4. I am not ok, you’re not ok

The fourth one is what this girl has. She should be aiming for 3 first. Then she can go to 1. Then when she’s healed, she can do 2.

This girl has no idea what healthy relationships are. To have a chance at healing she needs to be around healthy people to finally see what healthy looks like.

Edited August 21, 2022 by no_name

[puporing]

@no_name I wasn't trying to give her advice was just talking to @Scholar. I could've clarified better. 

However, the other point I should make is that, everyone has "trauma" to one extent or another, just degrees of it.

[no_name]

3 minutes ago, puporing said:

@no_name I wasn't trying to give her advice was just talking to @Scholar. I could've clarified better. 

However, the other point I should make is that, everyone has "trauma" to one extent or another, just degrees of it.

Having trauma and being healed from it is 2 different things.

[puporing]

6 minutes ago, no_name said:

Having trauma and being healed from it is 2 different things.

Healing goes beyond trauma and is never "complete" because there's other people's traumas around you that will affect you as well. But that's a less personal point.

And it's untrue that you have to be well healed to heal others. You can be with someone at a similar level of healing and go through it together. That's more balanced. Otherwise it becomes a parent-child like relationship when the gap is large. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by puporing

[Tyler Robinson]

7 minutes ago, KH2 said:

Controversial opinion, but I don't necessarilly dissagree with the idea of cheating.

As long as you're overcompensating to your partner in some other ways - you provide a lot more value than you take.

If you're cheating and you're not providing any value to him/her - then you're just an uncommited loser, whether you're a man or a woman.

Of course, the most ideal relationships are where both partners are commited to each other. Best for raising children, tends to be less toxic than other alternatives, etc.

I'm just not necessarilly against cheating. But you should overcompensate HEAVILLY

No way! 

This idea goes against the base concept of relationships. 

It's terrible to even suggest such a dynamic. 

I mostly agree with the takes of @no_name

[Scholar]

47 minutes ago, puporing said:

@Scholar Yes I think that when someone has enough what you might call "baseline character", but obviously has some unprocessed pain/trauma that is causing them to behave in certain dysfunctional/unloving ways, there is room there for healing in the relationship and if yourself can recognize that it's not "their essential being" but a wounded energy that wants to lash out. It takes great patience and sometimes you may be tempted to give up. It's always nice to hear there are people out there who would stick around and guide the other person towards more love and healing. 

Yes, I very much disagree with the idea of red-flags and being kind of over-cautious. Leo advocates for this idea, and yes it is an effective survival strategy, but I think it kind of is communicating the wrong things on a large scale. I don't want everyone to be evaluating each other by random metrics, that in the end are probably largely irrelevant to the way they would live together. Obviously one doesn't have to be unwise about it, but I think looking at relationships as a vehicle of growth for both individuals, is important.

And this is not just about romantic relationships. I think on a larger scale, because of modern technologies, we can pick and choose our friends, and we can easily push out "dysfunctional" people altogether by labelling them toxic and so forth. But that will not really fix the issue, people will just get more isolated, more dysfunctional, and everything will get worse for everyone.

 

Instead of playing this kind of evaluation game where everyone separates into their own groups, I think we need to view connections as something that is helpful and necessary for individuals. A lot of growth can happen to individuals if they have others who help them and give them a reason to be motivated. If we tell them "Ah, you're a loser and dysfunctional anyways!", we are just further pushing them away and not helping them at all, even if we could.

This kind of selflessness needs to be further encouraged, contrasting todays idea of everything being about trying to fullfill one's own desires. That is incredibly myopic and selfish.

 

 

It's basically the scarcity attitude we are living. By seeking those "high value" people, we are creating the problem that there are only so many of such individuals around, rather trying to create system where we create more such individuals. It just becomes a selfish rat race, where everyone wants to snatch from the top. But this completely fails to recognize that we are social animals, and that our social environments shape us. We are literally pushing people to become more selfish and lower quality.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Scholar

[no_name]

1 hour ago, puporing said:

Healing goes beyond trauma and is never "complete" because there's other people's traumas around you that will affect you as well. But that's a less personal point.

And it's untrue that you have to be well healed to heal others. You can be with someone at a similar level of healing and go through it together. That's more balanced. Otherwise it becomes a parent-child like relationship when the gap is large. 

Obviously there are degrees of healing, but there is also a huge difference between someone who has trauma and doesn’t realize it, and someone who realized it and has began healing it. Most of the people are in denial about their trauma, it’s actually a huge leap to get them to even admit they have issues, especially when things are going their way. Kind of like with narcissists, the biggest issue with them is that they don’t seek treatment - they are usually successful in their careers and have a bunch of codependent flying monkeys bowing around them - they don’t think there is anything wrong with them. 

Also it’s kinda like in AA programs, AA participants are encouraged to be friends with each other and help each other, but they can’t date for 2 years (or whatever the number is), because dating is different than friendships, and two broken people in romantic relationships  where intense feelings are involved usually ends up creating a complete shit show. So, it depends on where on the healing journey you are - if you feel you’re more or less stable, you should start dipping your toe in the dating pond again, otherwise you’ll never learn what you like/dislike.

Edited August 21, 2022 by no_name

[zurew]

27 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Yes, I very much disagree with the idea of red-flags and being kind of over-cautious. Leo advocates for this idea, and yes it is an effective survival strategy, but I think it kind of is communicating the wrong things on a large scale.

Leo doesn't advocate for being overly cautious, he is just saying to be aware of some redflags, there is a middle line there.

Edited August 21, 2022 by zurew

[Scholar]

4 minutes ago, zurew said:

Leo doesn't advocate for being overly cautious, he is just saying to be aware of some redflags, there is a middle line there.

Not my intuition at all, I think he is hyperselective and the way he has framed  things, at least in the past because I haven't watched many of his latest videos, was pretty selfishly motivated.

[something_else]

@Scholar You should definitely try to avoid some red flags in relationships if you don’t want serious problems. Dating a narcissist is an awful idea. Dating someone who doesn’t respect you is an awful idea. You are putting yourself through far more torture than you need to by choosing to stay with such people, let alone trying to heal them

Yes a relationship should be beneficial for both parties but in order for that to be the case both parties need to meet some basic requirements

[Scholar]

11 minutes ago, something_else said:

@Scholar You should definitely try to avoid some red flags in relationships if you don’t want serious problems. Dating a narcissist is an awful idea. Dating someone who doesn’t respect you is an awful idea. You are putting yourself through far more torture than you need to by choosing to stay with such people, let alone trying to heal them

Yes a relationship should be beneficial for both parties but in order for that to be the case both parties need to meet some basic requirements

Well yes some red flags are valid, I'm not saying you should just date everyone.

[Bobby_2021]

7 hours ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Why is it okay for a man to see multiple women when it's not okay if women do it. 

First of all I do NOT advocating for cheating. It's terrible to experience being cheated on for both sexes. But both sides don't see it the same way.

1. Higher sex drive. 

When a heterosexual man and a heterosexual woman is in a relationship, the woman simply cannot keep up with the sexual drive of the man. She can have sex almost anytime she wants. The reverse is not true. She may have periods, mood swings etc which means she won't be ready for sex.

Highly ambitious men, whom women love a lot, also will have naturally high sex drives due to high Testosterone levels. So one woman can't satisfy his sexual needs. The woman can have her sexual needs satisfied by one man.

So men having more sexual partners is accepted, because one woman can never satisfy a man. 

2) Lack of emotional attachment to sex. 

Men can have sex without being emotionally attached to the woman. When men have sex, it's mostly to blow off our loads. We do not become emotionally attached to the woman we are fucking. We can hate or love the woman we are fucking. We can fuck a woman and completely not give a shit about her.

Women fall in love with the man they are fucking. Exceptions exist. But this is largely true as she grows older. Teenagers may fuck purely for sex.

3) Difference in male vs female loyality. 

Female loyality is about sexual exclusivity. 

Male loyalty is mostly about giving his support, protection, care and resources to the woman, not particularly sexual exclusivity.

Men can fuck 10 women and still gather all his resources to protect one women and their offspring, without being emotionally attached to 9 women.

If a woman fucks 10 men, then the question arises, who is the father that will take care of the baby? If you do not show loyality to the biological father, then he is not required to protect you or the baby.

Men can have any number of babies from any women and gather resources to protect them, given that he is ambitious and lives up to the masculine expectations. It's hard for, say a single mother, to live up to those expectations of protecting the baby. 

......

These are some of the reasons why society gives a blind eye to men cheating it's not that big of a deal.

It's a matter of meeting their biological and emotional needs of the parties involved. (Man, women, child)