Your View On Solipsism

[Raptorsin7]

I see a lot of conflict on the forum around how we understand solipsism. I'm curious to which view of solipsism the people on the forum subscribe too.

1. I am  the only consciousness in existence and we are all just figments my imagination. Similar to how someone can be the main character in the game, and the rest of the characters in the game are secondary.

2. Each of us the same consciousness and so we are all imaging each other. So you are all being imagined by me, but it would also be true to say that you are all imaging me. 

I think the 2nd view eliminates most of the issues I see with people understanding solipsism on the forum. So, although everything is your imagination in a sense, and the world is being imagined by you, the same holds true for any conscious being so you are not in a unique or special place relative to other people.

I'm curious if there is an alternative view of solipsism, or if any of my views are incomplete.

[Loba]

From my awakening experiences, I was given an intuitive kind of structure into how this worked.  What it felt to be, was kind of like getting off of a theme park ride - it was outside of spacetime and I could feel what people would call time ever flowing forward, while I was stationary, kind of like being on a wave machine.  I could feel every other soul that ever was or will be, dead and alive and future, all connected to a source that was at the end of this wave, like moving us all ever closer towards it.  We were made of this material, but our experiences were punched out, like bubbles of awareness, made of nothing at all, partitioned by nothing at all, but still a multiplicity - simply made from the same material - while on this wave, riding it with everyone else, I realized that time didn't exist in the way that I thought it did, and I realized that I had always been there underneath what I call my life, that death and birth were never a thing - that everything had been choreographed so that it could be stripped away from me, to be seen for what it was in that moment.

[RMQualtrough]

Do away with the consciousness framework and this isn't an issue. Simplify everything with the aim of having even a child understand what you are saying. Develop metaphors to do this if possible. From trippy times the breakthroughs created a sort of oneness which had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with whether there were other people experiencing. It had actually flat zero relation to the oneness whether they did or not.

I can't actually describe that sense.

Consciousness and the associated framework of learning is an ego trap, I am sure of it. Someone on here mentioned "impersonal consciousness" (I think they made the term up), which seems better but I doubt it could be understood easily. It's prone to being hijacked by an unruly ego to go off about lucid dreaming real life to give themselves all the power.

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, RMQualtrough said:

Do away with the consciousness framework and this isn't an issue. Simplify everything with the aim of having even a child understand what you are saying. Develop metaphors to do this if possible. From trippy times the breakthroughs created a sort of oneness which had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with whether there were other people experiencing. It had actually flat zero relation to the oneness whether they did or not.

I can't actually describe that sense.

Consciousness and the associated framework of learning is an ego trap, I am sure of it. Someone on here mentioned "impersonal consciousness" (I think they made the term up), which seems better but I doubt it could be understood easily. It's prone to being hijacked by an unruly ego to go off about lucid dreaming real life to give themselves all the power.

You can't do away with consciousness. You are confused. 

[JuliusCaesar]

@Raptorsin7 Number 1 and 2 are the same point of view.

 

[Razard86]

39 minutes ago, JuliusCaesar said:

@Raptorsin7 Number 1 and 2 are the same point of view.

 

Yeah they are both the same. I know what he is trying to say though. He is trying to say that he alone is God and we are all just imagination.

What he doesn't understand....is God IS imagination. So as a result BOTH are true. You are both the main character...and every character all at the same time. 

This is why I say Reality is a mirror...you are just interacting with you. There is ONLY YOU.

God is all there is, there is nothing but God. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Razard86

[Galyna]

@Raptorsin7 The trick here is that all these questions by default form the identity, they are being asked from a human perspective. When there is no you, there is no other. There is no other!

[JuliusCaesar]

47 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Yeah they are both the same. I know what he is trying to say though. He is trying to say that he alone is God and we are all just imagination.

What he doesn't understand....is God IS imagination. So as a result BOTH are true. You are both the main character...and every character all at the same time. 

This is why I say Reality is a mirror...you are just interacting with you. There is ONLY YOU.

God is all there is, there is nothing but God. 

All of this is true, the only issue is that we're often communicating these things with people that have not realized the oneness of all existence on their own. So they cannot comprehend what we're saying when we say things like I'm the only thing that exists, or you're alone right now because there's only one of us here etc. It just sounds like delusional nonsense to most people, so much so that it doesn't even register in their mind. Contrast this with saying that physical reality is a dream, and sure they may reject it, some will label it also as nonsense or psychotic. But at least they have half a chance of wrapping their mind around what's being said.

 

It's clear, therefore, that there are basically two groups of people listening to Leo. You have what Leo would like to call normies who cannot understand the things Leo/us say. And are forced either to reject it as delusional(which I'm sure most if not all of them do) or accept it blindly as a dogma, which is something I think many suspect is happening though I've not yet seen an actual incident of that.

 

Then you have the second group, which is people such as ourselves who basically already get it on our own. And the value Leo has to us is that we are or were once somewhere in the middle between groups 1 and 2 and he was helpful in bridging the gap. I was one such instance of this, as I knew before discovering Leo that I'm God from my own experiences, but I hadn't really integrated that fact very well into my human-level understanding of things. And even more valuable is Leo's vast body of experiences we now have to reference and even replicate if we desire it so.

Edited August 16, 2022 by JuliusCaesar

[BipolarGrowth]

Rather than thinking about solipsism, the insight of “only this” or “just this” referring to what is present in that nanosecond only basically covers any beneficial things you’d get out of a solipsistic perspective without adding unnecessary elements. 

[Arthogaan]

It works just like your dream at night. 

When you start to have your lucid dream and now you can do whatever you can, it is kind of silly to start thinking wheter some other people in some other beds are also having their nighly dreams.

And see that if you thought about that in your dream, the thought of others outside a dream would actually be inside the dream.

And as others have pointed out, your character inside the dream is not real too.

 

It really amazes me how good of an analogy dreaming at night is. But if you were God, were would you hide deepest truths - why not in the place that you enter each night and that whole of society dismisses as fairytales. Pretty cool.

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Arthogaan

[Raptorsin7]

@Razard86 No, i'm not saying you are all just projections of my imagination and I'm not a projection of your imaginations. I believe we are all imagination, and anyone who is consciously reading this right is part of the imaginative process unfolding without our control.

I guess my main point is that some people are interpreting Leo's views on solipsism as Leo is the only one imagining everyone else in some form of heirarchy, like how in a video game no one ascribes consciousness and creative power to NPC's like they do the main character they are playing.

 

[Gesundheit2]

Red herring.

It makes 0 difference whether solipsism is true or not.

[RMQualtrough]

9 hours ago, Razard86 said:

You can't do away with consciousness. You are confused. 

I'm not confused. Let people see what works for them. Ideas about consciousness are lined with misunderstanding and identification. It really is a horrible set of pointers IMO... I'm not sure why people don't just go direct, past all that, straight to reality.

[Razard86]

We are going direct, you aren't you are spiraling in circles. You literally just denied awareness. If you aren't aware.....you cannot have a life. Reality itself....has awareness. It just varies....its like a knob. My awareness once jumped up so high I could feel an antennae on my head that's why I could confirm what Nikola Tesla said about the brain being a receiver. Turn that knob higher and you transcend that reality and realize oh yeah I'm not the body. Trascend that reality you realize oh I'm connected to everyone, transcend that reality oh I am everyone, transcend that reality oh I don't even exist, but still I AM AWARE. 

This is why I said you are confused. God doesn't need memory, a story, or form. It is just there...aware, in an infinite void. From this void it can poof things into existence and its pure imagination, its a MIND and infinite mind.

You are lost and confused. God is no self that creates a self. Which ultimately proves....that you don't need memory, a story, to be a self. Because God can have no identity, or every identity, and still be aware. So the true definition for a self would = awareness. That's it. Without awareness...there is only an infinite void. You can't have potentiality....without an awareness TO ACTUALIZE IT!!!

Edited August 17, 2022 by Razard86

[Razard86]

If you are going to do this work you must be able to explain everything a model is only as good as its explanatory power. 

In your scenario if there a human pointing at a flower you would just...put an entire X over the person and say there is only a flower.

Let's explain what the REAL issue is. 

1. You put an X over the person because YOUR EGO is still identifying with the person and your ego is tricking you into thinking this is the most direct method. Its not....because you are still making a distinction. If you have to cross something out of the picture....then its no longer infinite. You have to include the person pointing at the flower. The most direct method....includes everything. You are trying to make the infinite finite. This means you need more contemplation.

The person and the flower are the same. That solves the problem and there is no issue. Reality is just a screen in which a scene is projected onto it. But the scene and the screen are the same, and the screen and the scene are AWARE. So then when the screen is a first person perspective of one of the scene....it mistakes itself as separate from the scene. When it is the scene. A scene that is aware. It accomplishes this trick through awareness, it can't FEEL that it is the flower so it FEELS seperate. But if your awareness is high enough...you can FEEL IT. I have experienced being part of the scene which broke the illusion, I have also experienced....no form...yet still being aware. 

Watch this video by Leo. 

When Leo lost all memory and became the person in his dream...literally became him...Leo was still aware. Awareness is the fundamental nature of all reality. If Leo wasn't aware.....then how would Leo REMEMBER the experience. If awareness wasn't there Leo couldn't tell you point by point what happened. There would just be I shattered and no idea what happened after that. 

This means every rock you see is YOU and it is aware. The ground is aware, ALL of reality is AWARE. THE END. Very simple and is the most direct explanation.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Razard86

[Breakingthewall]

leo's explanation on this imo is very confusing. Listening to him, it follows that only I exist as an absolute disguised as an ego, that the others are imaginary, created by the absolute to provide an experience of others to this imaginary ego, but which is ultimately the absolute in disguise. this explanation has made many uneasy. Before than the video of multiple gods appears, many people here repeated the mantra: only you exist, the rest are imaginary. Only you are real (you as an ego). If they were questioned, they would reply: Wake up, fool! after the other video they no longer repeat that mantra. funny

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[axiom]

@Razard86 

The concept of Pratītyasamutpāda within Zen Buddhism covers this. It refers to dependent origination.

One of the most popular meditative practices involves repeatedly asking the question "Who is aware?", i.e. :

1. You are aware of an object
2. You are aware of being aware of an object
3. You are aware of your awareness.

This is where many people stop. They think they are "done", by abiding in awareness. They consider awareness to be the pure and perfect substrate, their real "self".

But they are still in duality. You can go further:

4. Awareness of being aware of being aware of awareness. 
5. Awareness of being aware of being aware of being aware of being aware of being aware of being aware of being aware...

In other words, infinite regress. It is like Russell's Paradox: The set of all sets cannot contain itself, even though it too is a set.

Thus unknowingly, in an effort to preserve its own separate existence, the ego has constructed this final duality, a final misapprehension. The boss at the end of the last level of the most difficult game. But this boss can be beaten. It can be collapsed. This rarely happens because the self wants to cling on, cling on, cling on. It will grab on to anything to avoid its obliteration - the tiniest blade of grass to prevent itself from falling off the cliff.

When "awareness of" is completely gone, the final duality is collapsed. What is left is pure appearances, pure immediacy. No observer, no filter, no dualistic "being aware of being aware". No infinite regress. Just appearances. In and of themselves.

This world of appearances is sometimes referred to as 'God'. But what is God? God too is just an appearance. An appearance out of and from nothing. God is nothing.

This is enlightenment. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by axiom

[Oppositionless]

the fact that the self is all that can be known to exist.

solipsism is not the same thing as truth realization.

it's more like the entrance exam to truth realization. 

 

what is knowledge?

Edited August 17, 2022 by Oppositionless

[RMQualtrough]

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Its like a knob. My awareness once jumped up so high I could feel an antennae on my head that's why I could confirm what Nikola Tesla said about the brain being a receiver.

That's kinda panpsychist tbh.

In that ego death stuff was happening but I wasn't aware of it, so I don't see that I am necessary. There's no proof the I character really exists or is ever present at all. You think I must have been there, but I wasn't there. MORE similar to the red being aware of itself. That's not what it was, but a much closer resemblance.

Or if you can, try to imagine that qualia itself, the very quality of the thing, is what exists. E.g. not red, but redness. Red doesn't exist, REDNESS exists. The quality itself is present. The idea there is a you watching it to make it so, is not right.

It's a thought added on, that red can only be redness in presence of your self..... In actuality when reality needs to produce redness, it simply produces redness. It doesn't produce red + redness, or you + red + redness. Redness is there. In absence of all else. Add nothing. Do not touch it. Don't tamper with it. Don't tamper with adding ideas of screens and movies. Redness. End. Just. Redness... Do not touch it at all. Not even one word. No ideas about appearances and memories and God and seeing. None of those are present. Redness. END.

Since this did scare the shit out of me when the ego came back. Some resistance to even considering the idea might be terror. It means the end for the ego, it is = to literal death.

[Ramu]

@Gesundheit2 actually solipsism is absolutely true, it just doesn't matter if you like it or not!?