Is approaching women a red flag?

[Nilsi]

19 minutes ago, Aleister Crowleyy said:

You must fix your frame.

Girls should be thankful they had an interaction with such a high-value individual like yourself.

If you continue seeing women as "practice targets", then you will continue getting the "annoyed/creepy" glance from them.

I don't think a "high-value individual" would go out just for the sake of chatting up girls. If you happen to run into a cute girl, by all means, run your game, but I find it hard to justify going out of my way, just for the off chance, that I run into a girl I like. It depends on how bad you situation is I guess. If you're completely clueless, that may be a good investment of your time regardless.

[Karmadhi]

3 hours ago, Roy said:

Does it even exist if nobody is paying attention to you? Nobody would even know you're even doing it unless it's some small area and you stay there for too long.

I personally dont care, i was just following his trail of thought which was: "If you cannot tell your friends and people about it because they will judge you then it is not socially acceptable".

[Nilsi]

2 hours ago, Aleister Crowleyy said:

High-value individuals do that which may lead to progression in certain areas of life. Idk why you have this problem with leaving your house to chat up girls ?. 

You have this negative view of leaving your house specifically to talk to women. With that frame of mind you will never get good at anything in life. 

I often leave my house to go find beauty in the world, chat up women only, contemplate, to get inspiration, etc. You should leave your house consciously as opposed to unconsciously hoping things occur in accordance with your values.

Fair enough. I'm not super comfortable with randomly chatting up girls, so maybe I'm projecting a bit here lol; But talking to girls I meet at a party or in university, or wherever I happen to just be anyways is much more fun and easy-going for me personally + I don't have to commit extra time to it.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Nilsi

[something_else]

19 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Sure, apporaching in clubs is normal but spam approaching 20 girls a night, every night is seen as a bit weird, by most people. My question is : Why do you even care what they think honestly.

It isn't though. Clubs are kind of like networking events, you're supposed to make new connections and introduce yourself to lots of people. In clubs it doesn't even feel like 'an approach' to me, it just feels like meeting lots of new people. You tend to end up so intimate and close to other people that it's actually weirder if you don't talk to them. This is all especially true if you go to clubs that are popular with students.

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Maybe this is the difference between us because where i live girls usually go on clubs to have fun with their friends and usually there are also guys with them. Most of them do not respond well to being approached, they just want to be left alone to enjoy the company of their OWN group. Personally if i approach a group of girls during nightgame i am equally disturbing them as if i approach a girl during daygame when she is doing nothing and probably bored. Yes, clubs are a social place but on big groups people dont want to be approached by random people. At least in my city it is like this.

I think this is where you are projecting  I do live in a friendly country, but I was down in London in the big clubs there recently and it was pretty much the same where you could find people to talk to pretty easily. Yea, there are groups who just want to be left alone but most people are at least tipsy and will talk to pretty much anyone. A high portion of people in clubs are extroverts who want to talk to other people.

It also doesn't tend to work out like approaching a large group of people a lot of the time. More commonly, I'll meet an individual or two from a bigger group who then end up introducing me to others. Clubs break up big groups by their nature. The only time I've really seen big groups of people stay together in clubs is when they buy a booth or sit at a table, but even then the people at the booth often get up to go and dance and do their own thing.

It was exactly the same in London as it is in Scotland so I can't imagine it's that different in Brussels.

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"This guy saw me and told me i looked nice and talked to me for a bit, he was so cute and polite". Exact words of a friend of mine whose daygame experinces are guys catcalling her or following her home.

I bet you that girl thought that she was the only one he approached though. Or that it wasn't something he did often. A core part of daygame is convincing girls that you don't aren't out doing daygame, because for sure if they knew you had approached 15 other girls before her it would weird her out. It's inherently needy because by doing daygame you imply you can't get a date through conventional or socially acceptable means, which is scary for a girl.

Even if you are out doing daygame you have to convince them that you are just out going about your day as normal.

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The reason why women hate daygame is because the guys doing it are weird and creepy as fuck. I noticed the most socially clueless people do daygame instead of nightgame. If most people approaching you are like that, ofc you wont like it. But i assume that you are a person with good social skills and social intelligence so way less likely for girls to be creeped out. 

And tbh its not like nightgame has better conversion ratio, i would say daygame approaches are way more likely to lead to numbers and dates, at least that is what i have noticed from talking to advanced guys in my city.

I personally have female friends that hate when guys talk to them because they are usually weird and creepy as fuck during the day. However when a normal decent guy talks to them, they never speak in a bad way about it. They are actually taken by suprpise in a good way.

Yea, this is why you have to convince girls you're not doing daygame when you are. Because no matter how charming you are, you are being lumped in with all the weird and creepy guys the moment she knows what you're really doing.

Like I said before, with nightgame it's different, I've told girls straight to their face that "I'm out on the pull" (I don't know if this is a phrase elsewhere but it basically means out purely looking to fuck) and it often gets a laugh. I can even be honest about being on my own if I am and it's usually fine.

And yea I don't doubt that daygame can work or even be really effective for guys. I just don't like the ethics of the practice. Part of that is probably fear and bias. It really requires an ability to not give a fuck what other people think which is something I struggle with.

Edited August 18, 2022 by something_else

[Valach]

@something_else Again, that is something I do not agree with. I am at work so can't really write out for long, but I have the same experience with daygame as you do with nightgame. Often girl would ask me if I approach like this a lot and I am honest with them, that indeed I do and I do it to meet new people and gain social skills - almost always gets a laugh or whatnot. I think you can frame going out during daytime the similiar way as during nighttime -> You are just social person out meeting new people, having fun, vibing with other and sharing your energy.

Hell, I got my current girlfriend from daygame cold approach, I even told you that she was like 7th girl I approached that day and she thinks ( and I believe her sister too, which she told to) that approaching like this is coolest shit ever.

But again, that is because I am thanks to game fundamentally a cool person and so most girls have fun talking to me. Honestly now remembering the day I met my current gf, I think I got good 3 dates from that daygame session ( which was like from 2pm - 5pm on a nice sunday summer evening ), nothing crazy and I could just relax and go for nightgame after that if I wanted to.

 

Btw. I feel like if you percieve daygame approaching as fundamentally needy, others will feel the same about you doing it. And honetsly, if you can get dates from daygame, you are much bigger baller than some "normal" guy getting dates "normal" way - that shit is honestly way easier. Once I learned daygame, meeting, flirting, getting girls on dates through other means became so much easier. 

However I am not some stubborn pickup guy who is promoting here daygame. I actually believe nightgame overall is more effective. It's just daygame can work too, is dope as shit and is nothing to be judged for.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Valach

[Spiral]

Mostly surprised any guy is into her

[BlessedLion]

On 8/16/2022 at 4:27 PM, Karmadhi said:

You project a lot on these posts.

It is not true at all that girls are receptive during the night more, they are super bitchy and always in groups. Personally, in my city (Brussels) all the guys i met that actually get results do it during the day.  Even newbies get numbers on few approaches compared to nightgame where 99% of them are blow outs. Also not every personality type will exceel on a loud busy bar/club. People have different strenghts.  Night is great for practice or fuck around with wings for sure, i do enjoy it under the right company but personally i dont have that high energy explosivness that is needed to get results during the night. So dont many introverts that do pick up to get better with girls. 

Most of the advanced gamers i have met in my city said they used nightgame to train fast but most of their actual results came from during the day. Maybe other cities are different, i dont know.

 I have seen gamers talk to girls in parks and there was nothing creepy about it, it was super romantic and the girl responded very well. A guy i met was so smooth and good he literally opened girls in metro station and they responded well, had a 5 minute convo and gave her number.

It is creepy if you are creepy. I have heard the worst harrasement stories by girls during the night, not during the day.

Note: I always assume the guy has decent social skills and social intelligence/awareness, if he is a legit autistic person then night will be better because it tolerates socially clueless behaviour better. Daygame requires at least decent social skills already.

Yeah this guy pretty much nailed it. 
 

Most women are pretty impressed by day game, because it shows a lot of confidence and balls, and that you don’t fear doing things that are considered a bit out of our sheepish societal structures. 
 

Deep down a woman wants to be with a man who is NOT cucked by what society has told to be and what a good boy does, going up to her and just being cool displays massive value. I find that most women aren’t actually that busy and usually bored, doing an approach can make her day. 
 

Night game is more like fucking around, no one is really taking it that seriously 

Edited August 23, 2022 by BlessedLion

[something_else]

1 hour ago, BlessedLion said:

Most women are pretty impressed by day game

Most women are impressed by guys who are socially calibrated. They aren’t impressed by day game. I guarantee if you go up to 90% of women in the population and tell them you spend every Sunday approaching tons of women on the street they would not really be impressed by that

But yea, if you talk to a girl you see confidently during the day naturally that’s very attractive. I think this is an important distinction to make

[universe]

Men in general don't understand what women do in the dating sphere, as much as women don't understand what men do.

Don't take dating advice from the opposite gender.

[BlessedLion]

5 hours ago, something_else said:

Most women are impressed by guys who are socially calibrated. They aren’t impressed by day game. I guarantee if you go up to 90% of women in the population and tell them you spend every Sunday approaching tons of women on the street they would not really be impressed by that

But yea, if you talk to a girl you see confidently during the day naturally that’s very attractive. I think this is an important distinction to make

Yes. I agree with you on the social calibration. But how does one get better? -Practice. 
 

The mind is very good at adjusting and learning and with an open mind one can get better at approach and their social energy. It really just takes practice and not taking it too seriously. 
 

Regarding your second point I’ve told my female freinds that some days I just walk around looking for beautiful women that I express my interest in and they actually think it’s sweet 

[Tron]

On 8/16/2022 at 3:15 PM, something_else said:

It's a red flag if you're getting up at 11am on a Saturday morning to go and approach a hundred girls on your local high street.

It's not a red flag if you're out and about doing what you normally do and you see a girl you like and you strike up a conversation.

If I wanna do spam approaching I just go on a night out because girls are like at least 20x more receptive to conversations with new guys on a night out anyway and it's pretty much considered socially acceptable

or you can just do what you want and not worry about red flags 

[Arcangelo]

On 8/17/2022 at 3:16 AM, assx95 said:

The same thing done by two different people will get two different reactions.

Exactly, if you are DiCaprio you will get a different reaction.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Arcangelo

[meta_male]

It's a red flag for a girl if she gets approached by a guy who comes off creepy, yes.

But then again, the girl in the first image is just an example of an attention seeking drama queen, you don't need those in your life.

[Tron]

9 hours ago, meta_male said:

It's a red flag for a girl if she gets approached by a guy who comes off creepy, yes.

But then again, the girl in the first image is just an example of an attention seeking drama queen, you don't need those in your life.

creepy is subjective tbh 

[petar8p]

The only creepier thing than approaching women is a guy that doesn't do it at all.

[Tron]

4 hours ago, petar8p said:

The only creepier thing than approaching women is a guy that doesn't do it at all.

well put 

[BlessedLion]

If someone had a gun to your mothers head and said “if you don’t approach that woman, your mom dies” would you worry about being a creep? 
 

pixture yourself on your death bed, will you give a fuck whether you looked creepy?

[Ulax]

Hey Raze,

Regarding the shared links, here's what I'd say.

I think the gym one is a well meaning girl trying to protect another girl. I think girls sometimes do that to give another girl an out if they want. Although I empathise with the doubt created by the seeming hostilities towards the approacher in the tweet's comment. So it makes sense to me that you'd be concerned about non effective approaches being seen as harrassment due to the gym situation.

That said, if that was an actual approach it seems a bit uncalibrated to me, by content alone. She knows nothing about this random guy apart from that he approached her in the gym, and whatever his first impression was. That approach would have built hardly any comfort, imo. 

I think the issue with the TSA guy probably provokes a stronger reaction because it is seen as a lack of professionalism on the part of the TSA guy. Although, it does seem harsh to me nonetheless.

Finally, it may also have just been that the vibes of both these guys may have seemed seriously off. I'm guessing you've met some wings who when you've watched approached you've actually felt uncomfortable for the girl? Its probably that sort of dude that is getting these reactions. 

-------------------

Re changing approaches, I think it'd be useful to always chuck in a statement of empathy. I.e. I understand this is random.

I wouldn't do the london daygame stop. Just walk with. I agree with Todd that it isn't very calibrated anyway.

I'd also dress in a socially calibrated way as well. I've met some pickup guys who walk around in a tux and snake skin shoes during daygame which just doesn't seem socially calibrated at all.

I guess mostly just be socially calibrated. Maybe you are already. But so many pickup dudes aren't.

That's my two cents. That said, I think it can be a tough one these days to work out where to draw the line nonetheless.

[meta_male]

On 25.8.2022 at 11:12 PM, Tron said:

creepy is subjective tbh 

Creepy as in not socially calibrated. You can't avoid coming off awkward when just starting this though.

[Kid A]

On 17.8.2022 at 0:27 AM, Karmadhi said:

It is not true at all that girls are receptive during the night more, they are super bitchy and always in groups.

Couldn't agree more. In my experience during the night, girls will treat me like I'm a human being with emotions only if I'm with friends and wear a suit. Too bad I like girls who care about more than my clothes, and I don't have any friends to go out with atm. Solo nightgame makes me really consider suicide almost every time.