Pick-up is a trap.

[NoSelfSelf]

@mr_engineer Yeah there are alot of them that wanna become... good point that could be only love relationship that i could support because its real love not human love?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

I quote the concept of 'hook-point' as you explained it in your video. That's how I'm using it. 

Unless you plan to stay a virgin, you will have to reach hook-point with any girl you intend to date and marry.

You are acting as though the girl you marry will be attracted via some alternative way. No. She will get attracted in exactly the same way as a girl who sucks your dick in the club bathroom.

[mr_engineer]

All the problems don't get solved once you agree on what 'love' is. But, this does create the possibility of compatibility in love-languages. And you can check for that when you're dating them. 

If you can have compatible love-languages and you can have sexual-compatibility based on that - now that's sustainable in long-term relationship. That's the alternative. 

[mr_engineer]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Unless you plan to stay a virgin, you will have to reach hook-point with any girl you intent to date and marry.

You are acting as though the girl you marry will be attracted via some alternative way. No. She will get attracted in exactly the same way as a girl who sucks your dick in the club bathroom.

It's hook-point in both cases. And the mechanism of hooking for them is based on their definition of 'love', because they're emotional creatures. And they're looking for 'love'. 

It'll change cuz the definition of 'love' will change. 

You talked about their fantasy of 'taming a player'. Guess where that comes from!! 

[Leo Gura]

@mr_engineer Girls are not attracted to love. They are attracted to SURVIVAL VALUE.

Love comes long after sex.

She's not gonna fall in love with you until you fuck her properly. And she's not gonna let you fuck her unless she sees value in you.

So if you want love, start with offering social value.

[mr_engineer]

@Leo Gura What is the survival-value of 'taming a player'? Wouldn't she be much better off going with a nice-guy, in terms of survival? Cuz he'll be a good provider and stuff. 

[NoSelfSelf]

@mr_engineer Player will always win nice guy cant do nothing about it but being in position to please plead and care for her with no much effect and seeling his own self for her ?..

[Nilsi]

4 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

@Leo Gura What is the survival-value of 'taming a player'? Wouldn't she be much better off going with a nice-guy, in terms of survival? Cuz he'll be a good provider and stuff. 

From a selfish gene/evolutionary biology perspective, the player will inherit his player genes to his offspring, who in turn will pregnate lots of women and inherit their mother's genes to their offspring. So the woman spreads her genes as much as possible, while also having a man that provides for her offspring.

[mr_engineer]

@NoSelfSelf Yeah, and being a player basically turns the tables. Only to discover that this 'love' isn't real! 

Notice how almost every self-conscious player has gone through a time-period of being a nice-guy. And that the naturals are actually the most unconscious ones relative to 'love'. 

1 minute ago, Nilsi said:

From a selfish gene/evolutionary biology perspective, the player will inherit his player genes to his offspring, who in turn will pregnate lots of women and inherit their mother's genes to their offspring. So the woman spreads her genes as much as possible, while also having a man that provides for her offspring.

Sounds like a pyramid-scheme. That 'I have value cuz the previous generation said I have value. And they have value cuz their previous generation had value!' 

Because there is a danger, with the player, that he'll cheat. And his resources will go to some other woman's kids! 

[Nilsi]

2 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

@NoSelfSelf 

Sounds like a pyramid-scheme. That 'I have value cuz the previous generation said I have value. And they have value cuz their previous generation had value!' 

Because there is a danger, with the player, that he'll cheat. And his resources will go to some other woman's kids! 

What a woman wants from an evolutionary perspective is a loyal man and player sons, and the surest way to get player sons, is by having a reformed player as a man.

[mr_engineer]

@Nilsi Then why not go for the nice-guy? 

This was the logic behind the sexual-marketplace regulation before feminism, in fact. This was the logic behind the way religion designed the nuclear family. But, after feminism, this radically changed into what we have today. Which is 'taming the player'. 

Are you sure this isn't a male projection onto what women actually go for? Cuz if you ask women what they want, they say 'we want love'. 

[NoSelfSelf]

@mr_engineer Player doesnt look for love anymore he looks to get most out of relationship potential but he usually brings more value than woman so hes in position to pick and choose woman and then woman start to buy him stuff bringing more and more value just to keep his attention..

True nice guys turning player will usually be concious and because of momentum become way better than naturals..

[Nilsi]

4 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

@Nilsi Then why not go for the nice-guy? 

This was the logic behind the sexual-marketplace regulation before feminism, in fact. This was the logic behind the way religion designed the nuclear family. But, after feminism, this radically changed into what we have today. Which is 'taming the player'. 

Are you sure this isn't a male projection onto what women actually go for? Cuz if you ask women what they want, they say 'we want love'. 

Because then your son's wont get pussy and your genes won't spread.

[mr_engineer]

@Nilsi This is assuming that you're conditioning your daughters to repeat the same 'mistakes' (assuming that this is what women go for), right? What if you teach your daughters to 'not go for the scumbag players'? Which is exactly what parents teach their daughters, by the way. Even today. 

Society generally agrees that too much casual sex is detrimental to it. Even today. My point is, I don't see the 'survival-value' in going for a player. It is something else. 

[Nilsi]

1 minute ago, mr_engineer said:

@Nilsi This is assuming that you're conditioning your daughters to repeat the same 'mistakes' (assuming that this is what women go for), right? What if you teach your daughters to 'not go for the scumbag players'? Which is exactly what parents teach their daughters, by the way. Even today. 

Society generally agrees that too much casual sex is detrimental to it. Even today. My point is, I don't see the 'survival-value' in going for a player. It is something else. 

These dynamics precede society and social norms millions of years. You can look at it from a sociocultural perspective, and the conclusion will be different. I'm just offering one perspective here.

[mr_engineer]

5 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

These dynamics precede society and social norms millions of years. You can look at it from a sociocultural perspective, and the conclusion will be different. I'm just offering one perspective here.

Consider the possibility that social norms have been male-dominated in history. And women haven't had that much of an opportunity to evolve. And if we help them evolve, they could get to a more functional position. 

[Nilsi]

1 minute ago, mr_engineer said:

Consider the possibility that social norms have been male-dominated in history. And women haven't had that much of an opportunity to evolve. And if we help them evolve, they could get to a more functional position. 

You don't understand what I'm talking about. Evolution is way more primordial and fundamental than history. These processes have been there long before humans even existed.

[mr_engineer]

@DefinitelyNotARobot But, the point of being nice is to generate the feeling of safety and security! 

In fact, if you are a player, the shit-tests will practically force you to turn into a narcissistic asshole. Going for a player is a 100% backfiring strategy for women. 

And, even if you're really good with women, does this necessarily mean you can street-fight off a robber who breaks into your house? Not necessarily. My point being, the player-skills are a poor indicator of how strong a man actually is. 

And, this is no secret to today's women, quite honestly. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by mr_engineer

[_Archangel_]

@mr_engineer Survival is not just having a roof over your head. What about her need to feel strong emotions, be led and dominated, stimulated mentally and sexually, the thrill of being with a player? How is she going to get that from a needy boring ass nice guy?

[mr_engineer]

@_Archangel_ Here are my questions - 

• How am I supposed to make someone feel a certain way, without manipulating them? Ultimately, you are the source of all of your feelings and emotions, the causes of them are inside of you. So, the idea is to manipulate their conditioning relative to love, right? 
• What if the 'stimulation'-part, is just another rat-race? The issue with this is that the relationship will have a honeymoon-phase after which both sides will get bored of each other and then the problems will begin. And someone will cheat, cuz there are more options. Especially online. And, if you're constantly running after something else, you will never be present with what you have. How will you access 'love', then?!