Why I'm Real

[Questioner]

6 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Nothing... This is the illusion of the ego and the falsehood of human interpretations of reality, the belief that there must be something "conscious of" the phenomena, and that it cannot exist in standalone fashion in absence of you, consciousness, God, or any other idea like that...

Flowers don't need you present looking at them for them to appear. If reality expresses a flower, the image of it is what is expressed. Not the image of the flower and a you watching the image.

I think this is probably genuine enlightenment, and death.

 

Technically if what you are saying is true there is no death for there is nothing to die.

Clearly whatever is generating this sentence is conscious otherwise how would I know that this sentence I'm typing has twenty-three words in it.

[RMQualtrough]

30 minutes ago, Questioner said:

Technically if what you are saying is true there is no death for there is nothing to die.

Exactly. This is what Neo-Advaita people say but it causes spiritual bypassing I guess.

The end of the path is recognizing there was never a path and nobody on it, but ironically you can't recognize there was never a path until the end of the path...

Everything happening is in fact standing alone. You are the fiction added onto what is. "I am seeing a flower", where "I am seeing" is added fiction. Nowhere in the image of the flower is there an "I" or anything seeing it. What is actually there when unspoiled by added fiction, is just flower.

[Questioner]

2 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Exactly. This is what Neo-Advaita people say but it causes spiritual bypassing I guess.

The end of the path is recognizing there was never a path and nobody on it, but ironically you can't recognize there was never a path until the end of the path...

Everything happening is in fact standing alone. You are the fiction added onto what is. "I am seeing a flower", where "I am seeing" is added fiction. Nowhere in the image of the flower is there an "I" or anything seeing it. What is actually there when unspoiled by added fiction, is just flower.

Just because you are imperceptible doesn't mean you don't exist.

[RMQualtrough]

22 minutes ago, Questioner said:

Just because you are imperceptible doesn't mean you don't exist.

You will discover you aren't real when the world continues (e.g. the flower still appears) yet all elements and ideas of a you are no longer there.

I am sure the fact it is this incomprehensible is why people aren't all just spontaneously "awakening" all the time.

If you draw on a piece of paper a stick figure, and draw a flower in front of it, and a thought bubble over the figure's head saying "flower" or sketch a mini version of the flower, whatever you choose to represent how "you" see the flower... Yeah? Okay, now cross out the stick figure and leave the flower and thought bubble. This is normal spiritual ideas, and like Idealism, which says there is a you, namely "consciousness" (the thought bubble) which is aware of the flower.

Now cross out the thought bubble. Don't touch the flower. That's what's really there, that's what was always really there. The stick figure body and thought bubble consciousness/mind are fictional addons.

[Razard86]

1 minute ago, RMQualtrough said:

You will discover you aren't real when the world continues (e.g. the flower still appears) yet all elements and ideas of a you are no longer there.

I am sure the fact it is this incomprehensible is why people aren't all just spontaneously "awakening" all the time.

If you draw on a piece of paper a stick figure, and draw a flower in front of it, and a thought bubble over the figure's head saying "flower" or sketch a mini version of the flower, whatever you choose to represent how "you" see the flower... Yeah? Okay, now cross out the stick figure and leave the flower and thought bubble. This is normal spiritual ideas, and like Idealism, which says there is a you, namely "consciousness" (the thought bubble) which is aware of the flower.

Now cross out the thought bubble. Don't touch the flower. That's what's really there, that's what was always really there. The stick figure body and thought bubble consciousness/mind are fictional addons.

You are going down the wrong path on this one. 

1. Consciousness is all there is. I look using the word awareness because people get confused by the word consciousness so I like to use the word awareness.

2. The flower is just as imaginary as the human body. Its just as imaginary as the thought bubble. Awareness always exists...even when it doesn't. Existence=consciousness and it is eternal.

The reason there is no observer....is the flower, and the thoughts, and the human are the same. The best way to explain is take a blank sheet of paper and draw like in your example. Is the paper divided? No those lines are just distinctions being imagined. When you erase the figures on the paper what happens is what is called "death" but those lines...were just illusions of division there was only ever the paper. 

Awareness=the paper in that scenario.

[RMQualtrough]

43 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You are going down the wrong path on this one. 

1. Consciousness is all there is. I look using the word awareness because people get confused by the word consciousness so I like to use the word awareness.

2. The flower is just as imaginary as the human body. Its just as imaginary as the thought bubble. Awareness always exists...even when it doesn't. Existence=consciousness and it is eternal.

The reason there is no observer....is the flower, and the thoughts, and the human are the same. The best way to explain is take a blank sheet of paper and draw like in your example. Is the paper divided? No those lines are just distinctions being imagined. When you erase the figures on the paper what happens is what is called "death" but those lines...were just illusions of division there was only ever the paper. 

Awareness=the paper in that scenario.

These pointers misled me. I think they're extremely misleading and basically lead to replacement of normal ego with just a jazzed up spiritual version of it.

I agree with the Buddha. Lack of any attachment is much more similar to awakening.

[Questioner]

@RMQualtrough

1 hour ago, RMQualtrough said:

You will discover you aren't real when the world continues (e.g. the flower still appears) yet all elements and ideas of a you are no longer there.

I am sure the fact it is this incomprehensible is why people aren't all just spontaneously "awakening" all the time.

If you draw on a piece of paper a stick figure, and draw a flower in front of it, and a thought bubble over the figure's head saying "flower" or sketch a mini version of the flower, whatever you choose to represent how "you" see the flower... Yeah? Okay, now cross out the stick figure and leave the flower and thought bubble. This is normal spiritual ideas, and like Idealism, which says there is a you, namely "consciousness" (the thought bubble) which is aware of the flower.

Now cross out the thought bubble. Don't touch the flower. That's what's really there, that's what was always really there. The stick figure body and thought bubble consciousness/mind are fictional addons.

How could you possibly know whether what you are saying is true if you do not exist and are thus unconscious?

Edited August 15, 2022 by Questioner

[Thought Art]

18 hours ago, Questioner said:

I am the one making this post. 

@Questioner Then what are you made of?

[RMQualtrough]

53 minutes ago, Questioner said:

@RMQualtrough

How could you possibly know whether what you are saying is true if you do not exist and are thus unconscious?

The knowing of X object is by itself like how I'm saying the redness of red sings out by itself, without you being found anywhere in that... For some reason that triggers insight in me, to imagine painting a red line and it sounds like a violin.

As long as there is an A in opposition to B, like a conscious being and unconscious object, there is duality.

I know how the illusion is created. It is simply created when a sense of spatial distance exists. It is literally as simple as there being a 3D space projected, and the "objects" of awareness are sort of thrown out into the distance... Use your own paradigm for a moment, these images are all creations of your mind. And thus even for a materialist, they exist inside the head. Inside you. But see how it feels like it is a distance away? The "absence" in place of where the object apparently should be, creates the location of our "self". By generating any apparent space, you necessarily create a dual appearance and the missing side of this is what our ego uses to "center" us in an image. There cannot be any actual distance in singularity.

[integral]

23 hours ago, Questioner said:

If I am just imaginary then you should be able to stop imagining me. But I am not imaginary which is why you can't stop imagining me because you aren't imagining me. Just try to stop imagining me... You can't.

Who said I am in control of my imagination? that's an assumption. 

[thisintegrated]

Where's @Leo Gura when you need him to lock a thread

[Questioner]

 

3 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

The knowing of X object is by itself like how I'm saying the redness of red sings out by itself, without you being found anywhere in that... For some reason that triggers insight in me, to imagine painting a red line and it sounds like a violin.

As long as there is an A in opposition to B, like a conscious being and unconscious object, there is duality.

I know how the illusion is created. It is simply created when a sense of spatial distance exists. It is literally as simple as there being a 3D space projected, and the "objects" of awareness are sort of thrown out into the distance... Use your own paradigm for a moment, these images are all creations of your mind. And thus even for a materialist, they exist inside the head. Inside you. But see how it feels like it is a distance away? The "absence" in place of where the object apparently should be, creates the location of our "self". By generating any apparent space, you necessarily create a dual appearance and the missing side of this is what our ego uses to "center" us in an image. There cannot be any actual distance in singularity.

You claim "I know" which contradicts your previous claim of not existing.

[RMQualtrough]

20 minutes ago, Questioner said:

 

You claim "I know" which contradicts your previous claim of not existing.

Yeah ofc because the ego filter is back up. You know things don't actually change, just the filters and perspective overlaying them.

[Max1993]

@Questioner Are you afraid of tripping deeply? 

[VeganAwake]

16 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

I know how the illusion is created. It is simply created when a sense of spatial distance exists. It is literally as simple as there being a 3D space projected, and the "objects" of awareness are sort of thrown out into the distance... 

Yeah man it just becomes obvious that there isn't a 'self' inside the body. 

This often seems to be followed by an involuntary energetic relaxation of sorts and a slow fading away of this 'sense of self'.

But yes, later it's recognized that nothing actually happened because there never was a real 'you' in which could fade away from the start.

❤ 

[Razard86]

18 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

These pointers misled me. I think they're extremely misleading and basically lead to replacement of normal ego with just a jazzed up spiritual version of it.

I agree with the Buddha. Lack of any attachment is much more similar to awakening.

How does it confuse. I'm saying whatever you see, feel, touch, taste, think, all of that is imaginary. Even awareness itself is imagination....but that imagination is CONSTANT. There is ONLY imagination. Its why God doesn't exist....it imagines itself into existence and its made of nothing lol.

[RMQualtrough]

@Razard86 It's horribly confusing. It's not you being confusing it's the entire belief system. It's very misleading.

When the ego goes it is the same as actual death, with the luxury of continuity instead of an episode change. Reality cannot go away. There is no you to die, there is just reality. So there is not a you entity viewing flowers, you aren't in the flowers, they aren't in you, there is "flowers" period, point blank. Everything else is just ideas tacked onto the sheer reality that "flowers are appearing", nothing more.

[Razard86]

30 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

@Razard86 It's horribly confusing. It's not you being confusing it's the entire belief system. It's very misleading.

When the ego goes it is the same as actual death, with the luxury of continuity instead of an episode change. Reality cannot go away. There is no you to die, there is just reality. So there is not a you entity viewing flowers, you aren't in the flowers, they aren't in you, there is "flowers" period, point blank. Everything else is just ideas tacked onto the sheer reality that "flowers are appearing", nothing more.

Your not understand....awareness is just a bubble that is basically a screen. The ego is just memory. When your ego truly dies....you don't have any memory. You just become a screen and whatever is there is there. Its not complicated. You are awareness. Awareness is a screen. 

Think of your T.V. you watch it and when you get engrossed you can lose yourself in the activity on the screen. Now imagine you are playing a first person game but the character in the game you can feel emotions, and all the other sensations we feel now. You have a memory of a life and back story.

 

Now...strip away the qualia, strip away the back story.....you are just the screen....and things are just happening there. If you say there is only the flower you will confuse others if there is a body there pointing to the flower. The body, the flower, and everything around them are just in the screen of awareness.