CIA Spy on MBTI

[RendHeaven]

2 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Did he happen to be going through some stage transition at the time?  E.g. Orange to Green?  Blue or Orange?

You can take MBTI as far as you want.  It doesn't stop being relevant at Turquoise, or at any point.

Yellow to Turquoise lol. Ask him yourself if you're skeptical: https://www.youtube.com/c/Philalethia/videos

 

Well, that's the thing about relevance: what is or is not "relevant" is dependent on your paradigm.

The same way that chasing materialistic success becomes nonsensical when you realize there is more to life than particles, matter, and biological survival, the urge to categorize and systematize and model becomes nonsensical when you realize Infinity.

That's not to say the former is obsolete - indeed we are always free to explore limited paradigms deeper - but generally speaking, one simply stops caring when their new vantage point is far more dynamic and inclusive.

6 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Well.. MBTI is a model of the ego.  What do you expect?

Thought I would just share something I found interesting

[RendHeaven]

5 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

You seem to view this as progress, as an enlightened transcendence of MBTI.

It literally is.

5 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Dayum, that's quite a bit of projecting.  Tools are tools.  They aren't whatever emotionally-charged ideas you have of them.

No, you

It's obvious that you are clutching to your tools.

Try going a year without plastering MBTI on top of your worldly experiences... you wouldn't dare.

Edited August 16, 2022 by RendHeaven

[Yali]

@RendHeaven

People have different personalities types, and even if we all kill our egos, that's not going to change.

MBTI, in my opinion, is the most accurate model for personality types.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Yali

[RendHeaven]

Just now, Yali said:

@RendHeaven

People have different personalities types, and even if you kill your ego, that's not going to change.

MBTI, in my opinion, is the most accurate model for personality types.

I agree.

[Loba]

@RendHeaven You don't even need to plaster MBTI on your experiences.  That's not what it's for, it's to experiment with different ways of experiencing the world.  Humans have a few different ways of understanding and taking in information, you don't even need to add XXXX on top of it, you could just take note of the way your mind is taking in different information at different points of time - what that means for you, why you do it, etc.  There's a set number of the ways we do this through our intuition and senses, and some people prefer using certain functions over other ones.  These people will have some similarities between them, although every human being is unique, of course.  The point of MBTI is not to 'just' plaster a few letters over a person's personality, but to see how they take in the world and gain a better understanding of the different ways humans live their lives.  I mean, I recognize at the end of the day it gets close to generalizing things a bit, but if you reign it in and don't take it too far, be sure to actually know what each of the functions feels like in your first hand experience, you can generally have an easier time seeing and meeting other people where they are at.  

[Loba]

23 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

One of the rare occasions you'll see my Ni?

Ne = getting the idea to share a video.

Ni = deciding what's the best possible title.

Fe = linking with the exact timestamp for everyone's convenience.

Ne = making a delicious meal using all sorts of fine ingredients.

Ni = a literal crow scooping barf up off the side of the road.

Fe = generally agreeable and compliant.

Fi = cat scratches.

[thisintegrated]

21 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

It literally is.

Projection.

 

Quote

It's obvious that you are clutching to your tools.

If Carl said this I could entertain the idea, but I've never even talked to you before yet you're 100% convinced you have a deep understanding of who I am.   If I had to guess, I'd say you want your ideas about me to be true.

 

Quote

Try going a year without plastering MBTI on top of your worldly experiences... you wouldn't dare.

You must have never really studied MBTI.  To get a feel for every type and all their differences takes years of typing/analyzing people at every single opportunity you get.  To master the model you'd have to talk/think about it every day for a decade at least.  That's how you get good at it.  You see me talking about MBTI and assume I'm using it as some way to empower my ego.  In MBTI, all personalities are equal, so if that was my intention I wouldn't be talking about MBTI.

 

24 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

Yellow to Turquoise lol. Ask him yourself if you're skeptical: https://www.youtube.com/c/Philalethia/videos

What makes you say he's Turquoise?  All I see is Green mysticism/wokeness/spirituality, and a desire to be heard, seen, acknowledged.

Turquoise isn't "Green, but better".  Turquoise is like Leo's most advanced videos.  How often does Leo talk about spirit, Taoism, spirituality, or say to people "you are beautiful".  This is all 100% Green.  Green trying to appeal to Green.  Greens struggle with image, community, and spirituality, and that's exactly what your friend is demonstrating.

 

Most likely what happened was.. your friend was Orange, discovered spirituality, and discovered that he was previously judging people with MBTI.  So he's now rejecting MBTI as it reminds him of how Orange he was and how he used it as a tool for judging.

But that was his own fault for misusing MBTI.  You're not supposed to judge people with MBTI.

If he was ever at Yellow, he would understand the value in multiple perspectives and see the truths in all of them.

Edited August 16, 2022 by thisintegrated

[RendHeaven]

1 minute ago, Loba said:

You don't even need to plaster MBTI on your experiences.  That's not what it's for

I agree. But intuition tells me that not a single one of the MBTI advocates here have embodied this realization. While they pay lip service to "MBTI is a lens!" it surprises me how defensive people are over this finite, limited, partial, biased, subjective, and ultimately arbitrary (yes, it's true) lens. You know what's crazy? I literally support MBTI lmao. Don't mistake me for bypassing for a second. I suppose I'm just poking the bear to test its reaction.

[Loba]

@RendHeaven I like poking bears, too.  It's fun, especially when they're trying to sleep.

[RendHeaven]

31 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Projection.

Still true

31 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

If Carl said this I could entertain the idea, but I've never even talked to you before yet you're 100% convinced you have a deep understanding of who I am.   If I had to guess, I'd say you want your ideas about me to be true.

Same can be said for you! Let's make peace on that, yea?

31 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

You must have never really studied MBTI.  To get a feel for every type and all their differences takes years of typing/analyzing people at every single opportunity you get.  To master the model you'd have to talk/think about it every day for a decade at least.  That's how you get good at it.  You see me talking about MBTI and assume I'm using it as some way to empower my ego.  In MBTI, all personalities are equal, so if that was my intention I wouldn't be talking about MBTI.

You're right, I only have 1 year of MBTI study under my belt. I am nowhere close to mastery.

However, what I do have is a vastly augmented capacity for perspective that supersedes all modelling.

The same way that Leo is able to see beyond science without having been a physicist for 20 years, I am able to see beyond all systems and models (not just MBTI, but all such constructions, like the works of Einstein which I devoted 6 straight months to).

Again, NOT TO SAY THAT SCIENCE OR MBTI OR EINSTEIN IS WRONG. I am not even in the business of rightness or wrongness.

My only business is - "what more am I missing?" I risk hijacking the thread at this point so I won't say much more, but I hope you take this communication as a proper discussion of mind rather than an ego attack. This is why I commented in the first place - to pay homage to the mind-breaking vastness of life which I see seldom discussed.

31 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

What makes you say he's Turquoise?  All I see is Green mysticism/wokeness/spirituality, and a desire to be heard, seen, acknowledged.

Turquoise isn't "Green, but better".  Turquoise is like Leo's most advanced videos.  How often does Leo talk about spirit, Taoism, spirituality, or say to people "you are beautiful".  This is all 100% Green.  Green trying to appeal to Green.  Greens struggle with image, community, and spirituality, and that's exactly what your friend is demonstrating.

The bold is true. Nevertheless, what you're seeing is a budding turquoise trying to appeal to green. He is still young and navigating embodiment & presentation style. His greatest realizations he keeps to himself - as he should - and as do I 

I find it funny that you refuse to acknowledge the tier-2 in people. I've seen this from you on multiple occasions now. Systems thinking & mapping structure out of complex disorder and paradox is no joke. I do not lightly suggest that people have integrated & transcended this.

When I suggest that someone is at a certain stage, I mean that their concerns and values largely centralize around the concerns and values of that stage due to a sincere exploration of the previous stage being too limiting/suffocating.

As such, someone I recognize as turquoise may not scream turquoise to you since they are by no means a spiral wizard - but nonetheless their concerns, values, and journey through the previous stages speaks for itself.

Edited August 16, 2022 by RendHeaven

[thisintegrated]

4 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

Same can be said for you! Let's make peace on that, yea?

Sure.

 

4 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

You're right, I only have 1 year of study under my belt. I am nowhere close to mastery.

However, what I do have is a vastly augmented capacity for perspective that supersedes all modelling.

The same way that Leo is able to see beyond science without having been a physicist for 20 years, I am able to see beyond all systems and models (not just MBTI, but all such constructions, like the works of Einstein which I devoted 6 straight months to).

I think you might be misunderstanding Leo here.  There's a great difference between strong intuition and Yellow.  Even a superhuman intuition doesn't take a person anywhere near Yellow.  Intuition might give you a "feel" for physics and science, but won't tell you anything about the depth and interconnected nature of all things in reality.  Reality is infinitely complicated.  There is no limit to how deep you can go.  You could dedicate 1000 years to studying just one element of one branch of physics, and still not even be 0.00001% done.  There is no "seeing beyond it".  There's just simplification and the belief about how much the simplification actually captures.  The more you simplify, the more arrogant you become.  The less you simplify, the more humble you become.

 

4 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

My only business is - "what more am I missing?"

Relative to your ego's needs?  If you take such an INTJ approach then you're not really missing anything.  Ensure physical and egoic survival and you'll feel like you're the best and have all the answers.

 

4 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

The bold is true. Nevertheless, what you're seeing is a budding turquoise trying to appeal to green. He is still young and navigating embodiment & presentation style. His greatest realizations he keeps to himself - as he should - and as do I 

Why keep them to yourself?  Would you feel less safe by exposing all your secrets?  Do secrets help ensure survival on some level?

 

4 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

I find it funny that you refuse to acknowledge the tier-2 in people. I've seen this from you on multiple occasions now. Systems thinking & mapping structure out of complex disorder and paradox is no joke. I do not lightly suggest that people have integrated & transcended this.

I only call it out when It's obvious they're fooling themselves.  Some people here believe they're Coral, or even Clear Light, lol.

Maybe that's just my Ti parent.  If logic doesn't hold up then I'll try to put things in order.

 

4 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

When I suggest that someone is at a certain stage, I mean that their concerns and values largely centralize around the concerns and values of that stage due to a sincere exploration of the previous stage being too limiting/suffocating.

That has absolutely no relevance to one's stage.  Any stage Red can take on Sadhguru's views after listening to enough Sadhguru.

A stage isn't an ideology or belief system.  It's the awareness/progression level of an ego.

If your friend is actually Orange/Green with ideas commonly associated with Turquoise, then he still has to go through Orange, Green, and Yellow.  There's no skipping.  Thinking he's at the top would only do him more harm than good.

Again, ideology is 100% irrelevant and means absolutely nothing.

 

4 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

As such, someone I recognize as turquoise may not scream turquoise to you since they are by no means a spiral wizard

Every Yellow/Turquoise is a Spiral Wizard.  No exceptions.

[RendHeaven]

2 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

There is no "seeing beyond it".

Yes there is. 

2 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

You could dedicate 1000 years to studying just one element of one branch of physics, and still not even be 0.00001% done.

True, if you lack construct-awareness.

2 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Relative to your ego's needs?  If you take such an INTJ approach then you're not really missing anything.  Ensure physical and egoic survival and you'll feel like you're the best and have all the answers.

The question "what more am I missing?" is asked in relation to my self-made construct-prison(s).

I've been typed INFJ. I wonder if that shines more light on my biases?

2 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Why keep them to yourself?  Would you feel less safe by exposing all your secrets?  Do secrets help ensure survival on some level?

No, some realizations and insights are simply incommunicable in their totality as they literally transcend language. When we are sincerely struck by such transcendent insights (as opposed to delusionally misinterpreting mundane mind-activity), it dawns on us that any attempt to capture, control, or disseminate is futile and almost irreverent/missing the point.

2 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Some people here believe they're Coral, or even Clear Light, lol.

Hahaha 

2 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

That has absolutely no relevance to one's stage.  Any stage Red can take on Sadhguru's views after listening to enough Sadhguru.

A stage isn't an ideology or belief system.  It's the awareness/progression level of an ego.

If your friend is actually Orange/Green with ideas commonly associated with Turquoise, then he still has to go through Orange, Green, and Yellow.  There's no skipping.  Thinking he's at the top would only do him more harm than good.

Again, ideology is 100% irrelevant and means absolutely nothing.

I agree. When I say "concern" and "values" this is not a forceful mind-activity wherein one adopts a rigid stance on how they ought to conduct themselves in the world. To me, one's "concerns" and "values" = their subconscious inclinations or affinities in the absence of belief.

A true green doesn't have to fight mental battles over greed and wealth because their soul has genuinely exhausted such concerns.

A true yellow doesn't have to rally for community or connection because it's obvious to them that everything is already interconnected.

A true turquoise doesn't have to map out interconnections or explicate relationships because the preordained, divine order of the cosmos always outshines their finite human endeavors.

(to be clear, that is not to say that green can't do business, or yellow can't invest in communal endeavors, or turquoise can't draw maps. It's simply a matter of their subconscious inclinations or affinities in the absence of belief!)

2 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Every Yellow/Turquoise is a Spiral Wizard.  No exceptions.

The rigidity of that assertion is not a very tier-2 take

If this were the case, how would you suppose that someone in tier-1 would become tier-2?

Do they wallclip to a wider paradigm of spiral wizardry in a thunderclap and flash?

It seems pretty obvious to me that progression is slow, and one must snake their way into the next stage, limb-by-limb, before they're fully immersed in it. To me this would explain how someone has a tier-2 center of gravity but they lack total integration and/or elements of them are still trailing behind.

I think the difference in our conception is purely semantic.

I'm happy to call someone the stage that they are climbing into since the very fact that they are making that transition says something about the orientation of their heart & their recognition of prior limitation - whereas you seem to hold off on the label until the transition is fully complete and actualized ?

[Leo Gura]

Remember how models work. They have utility but you want to hold them loosely.

If you are having problems with MBTI it's cause you hold it too tightly and too exclusively. Use it as one lens in your kit.

[Carl-Richard]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Remember how models work. They have utility but you want to hold them loosely.

If you are having problems with MBTI it's cause you hold it too tightly and too exclusively. Use it as one lens in your toolbox.

It's also important to know the exact limitations of your lenses  

[bambi]

Also remember that colloqualy shallow understandings of models don't mean you know anything or everything about what it is talking about.

Knowing Godels 2 is a self referential problem, doesn't mean you understand the whole or any of math

 

Knowing MBTI is a 20 question self assesment test to uncover a one of 16 personality archetypes -  doesnt mean you understand the the constructs and dynamics of pysche, ego, or self

 

Knowing that all humans get old, sick, and ill health, doesn't mean you understand all of or any biology and genetics

 

etc etc

[AtheisticNonduality]

2 hours ago, bambi said:

Knowing MBTI is a 20 question self assesment test to uncover a one of 16 personality archetypes -  doesnt mean you understand the the constructs and dynamics of pysche, ego, or self

Yeah, the main problem with his MBTI obsession is that he's completely ignorant of Jungian psychology.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Yeah, the main problem with his MBTI obsession is that he's completely ignorant of Jungian psychology.

Who? 

[thisintegrated]

21 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

I've been typed INFJ. I wonder if that shines more light on my biases?

Hmm, you're actually right.  Definitely INFJ.

 

Quote

some realizations and insights are simply incommunicable in their totality as they literally transcend language. When we are sincerely struck by such transcendent insights (as opposed to delusionally misinterpreting mundane mind-activity), it dawns on us that any attempt to capture, control, or disseminate is futile and almost irreverent/missing the point.

That's not what you meant when you said "His greatest realizations he keeps to himself - as he should - and as do I ", but whatever.

 

Quote

A true turquoise doesn't have to map out interconnections or explicate relationships because the preordained, divine order of the cosmos always outshines their finite human endeavors.

Sure, but this describes me even when I was Blue/Orange as a kid.  I was always intuitive, but that's just intuition.  I'm naturally a NeTi, so I always took this "Turquoise" approach to everything.  I only developed my NiTe side when I was Orange/Green.

I never felt the need to map things out intellectually, but it's fun, and does, indirectly, lead to further discoveries.  E.g. I may have a very good intuitive understanding of what religion is, but if I actually studied it intensively for a few years my perspectives would likely be shifted in some way.  My intuition may be 100% right, but if I just leave it at that then progress will be slow or non-existent.  Without MBTI, I may feel I have a good understanding of a person, but once I start delving into MBTI I make much faster progress in psychology as a whole, and then there's the whole "lens" thing..

When you put focus on something, even if the approach is all wrong, the focus leads you to the right places.  I think this is a Yellow thing, I'll try not to overexplain.

 

Quote

The rigidity of that assertion is not a very tier-2 take

??

The model has rules.  Take away the rules and the model isn't a model anymore..

How you feel about the stages is irrelevant.  They are what they are.  Tier 2 is Tier 2 because it's not Tier 1.

Yellow is a Spiral Wizard because it's Yellow and not Green.  Green can't see outside its own perspective, so it can't be a Spiral Wizard..

????

 

Quote

If this were the case, how would you suppose that someone in tier-1 would become tier-2?

What?

Yellows are spiral wizards.  Greens aren't.  Once Green gets to Yellow, they become a spiral wizard.

 

Quote

I'm happy to call someone the stage that they are climbing into since the very fact that they are making that transition says something about the orientation of their heart & their recognition of prior limitation - whereas you seem to hold off on the label until the transition is fully complete and actualized ?

Great.  I'm Coral.

 

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Remember how models work. They have utility but you want to hold them loosely.

If you are having problems with MBTI it's cause you hold it too tightly and too exclusively. Use it as one lens in your kit.

Listen to him, @RendHeaven

 

6 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's also important to know the exact limitations of your lenses  

..and to know the limitation in treating them as limitations

 

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Who? 

Atheistic?

Edited August 17, 2022 by thisintegrated

[RendHeaven]

16 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

That's not what you meant when you said "His greatest realizations he keeps to himself - as he should - and as do I ", but whatever.

No, that is exactly what I meant. You're funny lol.

16 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Sure, but this describes me even when I was Blue/Orange as a kid.  I was always intuitive, but that's just intuition.  I'm naturally a NeTi, so I always took this "Turquoise" approach to everything.  I only developed my NiTe side when I was Orange/Green.

I never felt the need to map things out intellectually, but it's fun, and does, indirectly, lead to further discoveries.  E.g. I may have a very good intuitive understanding of what religion is, but if I actually studied it intensively for a few years my perspectives would likely be shifted in some way.  My intuition may be 100% right, but if I just leave it at that then progress will be slow or non-existent.  Without MBTI, I may feel I have a good understanding of a person, but once I start delving into MBTI I make much faster progress in psychology as a whole, and then there's the whole "lens" thing..

When you put focus on something, even if the approach is all wrong, the focus leads you to the right places.  I think this is a Yellow thing, I'll try not to overexplain.

Thanks for sharing

16 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Yellow is a Spiral Wizard because it's Yellow and not Green.  Green can't see outside its own perspective, so it can't be a Spiral Wizard..

????

We are not in disagreement. Seeing outside of the previous paradigm/perspective is my precise precondition for climbing stages.

16 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Listen to him, @RendHeaven

Leo is talking about you lol.

[Tyler Robinson]

On 8/15/2022 at 6:24 AM, integral said:

Duck tape, lots of duck tape. 

Omg haha. How do they treat INTJ terrorists. They give them software. Lots of software. 

Oh wait, INTJs can never be terrorists 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Tyler Robinson