I think I had an actual awakening, I almost fainted

[RMQualtrough]

@axiom I'm okay, I've been feeling extremely different since this happened. I feel some of my childhood traumas have been lifted. It kinda feels like young me is being resurrected from the dead... I should just accept my entire 20s was a write-off.

4 hours ago, Galyna said:

@RMQualtrough

thanks a lot for sharing. By far the most accurate description I have ever read. 
Some guys on this forum don’t understand impersonal awareness. 
how do you think your experience can help “others” to reconcile one vs many, aka my pov is the only real one. 
can you pls start another thread to help others to avoid any confusion? 
how to explain that when there is no you, there is no other. 
I am only struggling with one thing, how does something come out of nothing and there is no one behind the scene. 

Yeah "impersonal awareness" might also work. It is literally just this:

[axiom]

3 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

@axiom  I feel some of my childhood traumas have been lifted. It kinda feels like young me is being resurrected from the dead...

That’s because the sense of self is an energetic blockage, or a filter of sorts. When it is gone, whatever is left can function unencumbered… no longer weighed down, more streamlined, more in flow. As per your image, there is at least 3X less processing taking place 

[RMQualtrough]

1 hour ago, axiom said:

That’s because the sense of self is an energetic blockage, or a filter of sorts. When it is gone, whatever is left can function unencumbered… no longer weighed down, more streamlined, more in flow. As per your image, there is at least 3X less processing taking place 

Yeah, if only I had a way to represent the clinging caused by thoughts about "consciousness"... Maybe a bit thought bubble around the flower, and just delete the thought bubble.

I can tell in myself, as soon as I switch to thinking in terms of "consciousness", there is clinging. Questions arise like "what happens to my consciousness when I am dead". When that portion is deleted, and reality is seen as appearing to nobody and nothing, there is no clinging. Because we naturally believe that reality precedes and supercedes our death, but struggle to find a way to shove our "consciousness" in there. How reality continues to appear is readily apparent when you lose identification with this God/conscious thing.

I really think that is legit enlightenment.

I forced it out of my mind and lost it now. This happens all the time... I try to figure out the truth ->  I find it and become scared -> I curse myself for finding this out and try to delete it from my mind -> I successfully distract myself and forget and start from step 1.

[Frenk]

5 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

Yeah "impersonal awareness" might also work. It is literally just this:

So why don't you remove the flower also? Why you only remove yourself, what's the difference

[Razard86]

15 hours ago, axiom said:

They haven't gone the whole way. Almost but not quite. Their point is that conscious experience (as we tend to think of it) is illusory, and that all qualia is actually physical - It's just physical matter being viewed / measured from different locations, from different frames of reference. This is very similar to what @RMQualtrough was describing above.

They also claim that their model proves that frames of reference can be changed, i.e. the sense of inhabiting any particular body.

It's very similar to what a pointer of true enlightenment might sound like. They're really damn close, but it's quite a surprise that they invoke physical matter, since that's not an idea that's really taken too seriously anymore - even by hard-nosed mainstream physicists. The talk these days is generally of quantum wave functions.

Advaita suggests that it's not physical matter, nor wave functions, nor even consciousness. It is simply an appearance. Again, very similar to what  @RMQualtrough describes here.

Speaking of which, If you (RM) are still reading replies to your thread, I'm curious to know how you're doing now. 

Advaita are off their rocker you can't even have an appearance without awareness. Without awareness there is no screen. The screen is awareness that showcases the appearance. Can't have an appearance with no screen. Doesn't even make sense.

[RMQualtrough]

1 minute ago, Razard86 said:

Advaita are off their rocker you can't even have an appearance without awareness. Without awareness there is no screen. The screen is awareness that showcases the appearance. Can't have an appearance with no screen. Doesn't even make sense.

It doesn't make sense, that's partially why I panicked when confronted by something impossible. Screens and awareness, is all fiction.

When flowers appear, there is the sheer reality that flowers are appearing. There is JUST flowers. There is no God making the flowers, nobody seeing the flowers, no you in the flowers, no you viewing the flowers, no you which the flowers live inside. The qualia is not reliant on a self, sights do not need to be seen the sight is the ONLY reality.

Any time you try to add ANYTHING onto flowers, like "me" or "God" or "consciousness" just slap yourself and see it is just the image of flowers. ONLY that. ONLY THAT. ALONE. Delete yourself from the equation completely. There is flowers and it ends there.

[Razard86]

5 hours ago, Frenk said:

So why don't you remove the flower also? Why you only remove yourself, what's the difference

Its a silly illustration. The flower and the person are the SAME. There is no difference between the flower and the person.

A better pointer is first you have a blank piece of paper, then you draw on the paper and there are things on the paper. You think these things are different because they have various shapes and colors, smells, and other qualities. Then...you realize....there is no difference between the blank paper and the paper that has drawings on it. They are the same. 

So its not take out the person....there is no person or flower, there are just just appearances with an awareness of these appearances. You are that which is aware of those appearances. They appear WITHIN your awareness. If you were not aware....they would not be there which means you and them are the SAME!! So why are they considered illusion.

Because truth is that which IS. All appearances come and go, you are just THERE eternally. You can't get more true than eternity. So eternal awareness plays a game of merging with one particular form in its bubble and gives itself qualia while cutting off its awareness to the other forms in its bubble. If it didn't it would REALIZE that it was all forms. So since you only feel a connection to the form of the human body you think you are ONLY the human body. 

As your awareness increases you will feel the electricity in the power lines....because they are you. If someone is washing their car, you will FEEL the sensation of being washed, as your awareness increases...you feel everything in the universe, which includes all multiverses as well, and thus you merge with everything and become an infinite singularity.

The main component of the illusion is FEELING. You need to ONLY feel the body, and not everything to feel finite. So the illusion of finitude is created by lowering your awareness of the connection you have to everything.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Razard86

[RMQualtrough]

2 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Its a silly illustration. The flower and the person are the SAME. There is no difference between the flower and the person.

A better pointer is first you have a blank piece of paper, then you draw on the paper and there are things on the paper. You think these things are different because they have various shapes and colors, smells, and other qualities. Then...you realize....there is no difference between the blank paper and the paper that has drawings on it. They are the same. 

So its not take out the person....there is no person or flower, there are just just appearances with an awareness of these appearances. You are that which is aware of those appearances. They appear WITHIN your awareness. If you were not aware....they would not be there which means you and them are the SAME!! So why are they considered illusion.

Because truth is that which IS. All appearances come and go, you are just THERE eternally. You can't get more true than eternity. So eternal awareness plays a game of merging with one particular form in its bubble and gives itself qualia while cutting off its awareness to the other forms in its bubble. If it didn't it would REALIZE that it was all forms. So since you only feel a connection to the form of the human body you think you are ONLY the human body. 

This is inventions of logic. An idea of an imperceptible self or a self inside flowers, is invented and added onto the stark fact that flowers are appearing.

Flowers are appearing. End. Don't add even one more word. Don't let the ego try to cram a "you" into the ewuation. Flowers are not appearing to God or some shit. Flowers. Alone. Flowers. Just flowers. No logic. FLOWERS. No screen flowers are appearing in. JUST flowers. FLOWERS FLOWERS FLOWERS FLOWERS. Stare at the flowers some more. Flowers.......

[Razard86]

56 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

This is inventions of logic. An idea of an imperceptible self or a self inside flowers, is invented and added onto the stark fact that flowers are appearing.

Flowers are appearing. End. Don't add even one more word. Don't let the ego try to cram a "you" into the ewuation. Flowers are not appearing to God or some shit. Flowers. Alone. Flowers. Just flowers. No logic. FLOWERS. No screen flowers are appearing in. JUST flowers. FLOWERS FLOWERS FLOWERS FLOWERS. Stare at the flowers some more. Flowers.......

Your not getting it. The flower isn't the only thing appearing. The hands are appearing. The legs are appearing. You gonna ignore that? To find the truth you can't deny what is. Sure there is a flower, there is also your hands and your feet. Your hands and your feet are the same as the flower.

YOU are still thinking your body is you, that's why you keep focusing on the flower. The flower and the hands and feet are the same. All happening and appearing. The difference...is you cannot feel the flower....because your awareness is to low. 

When I walk outside I can feel the electricity in the power lines the same way I can FEEL my body. So I know the electricity in the power lines is the same as my body. Its not complicated. The ego is just as imaginary as the flower and the body.

[Razard86]

On 8/14/2022 at 9:56 PM, integral said:

Maybe if you zoom back a bit more you'll notice that your emotions are also part of the scenery?

Yep everything is a part of the scenery even the screen is a part as well. 

[RMQualtrough]

54 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Your not getting it. The flower isn't the only thing appearing. The hands are appearing. The legs are appearing. You gonna ignore that? To find the truth you can't deny what is. Sure there is a flower, there is also your hands and your feet. Your hands and your feet are the same as the flower.

YOU are still thinking your body is you, that's why you keep focusing on the flower. The flower and the hands and feet are the same. All happening and appearing. The difference...is you cannot feel the flower....because your awareness is to low. 

When I walk outside I can feel the electricity in the power lines the same way I can FEEL my body. So I know the electricity in the power lines is the same as my body. Its not complicated. The ego is just as imaginary as the flower and the body.

I'm not gonna draw a first person 3D view of a dude looking at flowers with his knees and stuff in frame. Accept my beautiful stickman...

I wrote many metaphors regarding screens and awareness, and especially nothing. These are all fictitious beliefs based off of logic. This was death. I finally understand all the toad reports and that YouTube chick with the "uncompromising nonduality" schtick..... The second I go back to Atman shit I instantly become attached to the idea of being this thing.

Bubbles of consciousness is mostly just a fancy sounding separation. I straight died... Flowers weren't all that was, obviously things like flowers go away. You can shockingly enough go away just like thr flowers. But the world still appears.

Do you understand what I mean? Qualia without subjective view of it. Qualia not necessitated by other at all. How does the sound of a wave crashing happen in real life? It's just the sound, the crash. Everything else like you being there to hear it is made up. And wording this is also made up because words are themselves appearances of reality.

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, RMQualtrough said:

I'm not gonna draw a first person 3D view of a dude looking at flowers with his knees and stuff in frame. Accept my beautiful stickman...

 

But But....I don't want to accept your stickman. lol. Look as long as you get it. I won't push my views onto you. If your way works for you it works. I hope you are feeling better as well...since you are me!!!!

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, RMQualtrough said:

Bubbles of consciousness is mostly just a fancy sounding separation. I straight died... Flowers weren't all that was, obviously things like flowers go away. You can shockingly enough go away just like thr flowers. But the world still appears.

Do you understand what I mean? Qualia without subjective view of it. Qualia not necessitated by other at all. How does the sound of a wave crashing happen in real life? It's just the sound, the crash. Everything else like you being there to hear it is made up. And wording this is also made up because words are themselves appearances of reality.

The you is just memory. If I wiped all of your memory right now.....you couldn't even think. You would just be part of the scene. Thats why they say quiet the mind because the mind is always thinking based on a past. Your past is your YOU, which you bring to the present in your thoughts, and then you try to judge the present with it and predict the future with it.

If you did not have the ability to remember, there would be no YOU. Its that simple. The ego is just a memory. 

[AtheisticNonduality]

On 8/13/2022 at 5:53 PM, RMQualtrough said:

Fuck I'm in bed alone, terrified. What the FUCK is this? I died. Lol. I died and existence continued exactly the same, what the FUCK. How the FUCK am I the world and not a being viewing it? How tf is this possible?... Yeah I got all the "we are one", but wtf is THIS.

It is possible to be alive and dead simultaneously.

But this is a genuine awakening.

It reminds me of various schizophrenics that claim that they have committed suicide.

Obviously it's difficult for other people to believe that they've committed suicide, but it seems very likely to me that they have, that the mind (the ego?) is able to be killed and leave the body intact.

There is no more Witness and Witnessed; there is just the Witnessing, no, just the objects of reality themselves. No, there aren't even objects or quantities anymore, because no space or separation of space is possible, so we're left with bare reality, bare qualities, life and death merged together as one harmonious (or apparently disharmonious) being of self-existent Nothing and Everythingness.

[Razard86]

20 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

It is possible to be alive and dead simultaneously.

But this is a genuine awakening.

It reminds me of various schizophrenics that claim that they have committed suicide.

Obviously it's difficult for other people to believe that they've committed suicide, but it seems very likely to me that they have, that the mind (the ego?) is able to be killed and leave the body intact.

There is no more Witness and Witnessed; there is just the Witnessing, no, just the objects of reality themselves. No, there aren't even objects or quantities anymore, because no space or separation of space is possible, so we're left with bare reality, bare qualities, life and death merged together as one harmonious (or apparently disharmonious) being of self-existent Nothing and Everythingness.

The ego is memory. You cannot survive without memory. You can transcend it, but you cannot survive without it.

[RMQualtrough]

17 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

It is possible to be alive and dead simultaneously.

But this is a genuine awakening.

It reminds me of various schizophrenics that claim that they have committed suicide.

Obviously it's difficult for other people to believe that they've committed suicide, but it seems very likely to me that they have, that the mind (the ego?) is able to be killed and leave the body intact.

There is no more Witness and Witnessed; there is just the Witnessing, no, just the objects of reality themselves. No, there aren't even objects or quantities anymore, because no space or separation of space is possible, so we're left with bare reality, bare qualities, life and death merged together as one harmonious (or apparently disharmonious) being of self-existent Nothing and Everythingness.

I had that effect (of being dead yet still here) in the hardware store the day after what happened. It's because much of what is identified with as a "self" can end. It seems impossible to consider "me as consciousness" having continuation, it is too easy to think it will be oblivion. But the no-self framework takes identification of self away from consciousness, and therefore you do not worry about the end of a temporary body. As it is easy to accept that reality continues unfettered by the death of a body.

And when you can see that the body/self is a fiction, there is only reality, then it is clear how it will continue. Real death is basically ego death with, presumably, a memory-hole. You can be walking around a store and be dead. Full dead. The aliveness of the body does not matter since the body is not you, is not this.....

[Razard86]

5 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

I had that effect (of being dead yet still here) in the hardware store the day after what happened. It's because much of what is identified with as a "self" can end. It seems impossible to consider "me as consciousness" having continuation, it is too easy to think it will be oblivion. But the no-self framework takes identification of self away from consciousness, and therefore you do not worry about the end of a temporary body. As it is easy to accept that reality continues unfettered by the death of a body.

And when you can see that the body/self is a fiction, there is only reality, then it is clear how it will continue. Real death is basically ego death with, presumably, a memory-hole. You can be walking around a store and be dead. Full dead. The aliveness of the body does not matter since the body is not you, is not this.....

You could only pull that off if you deconstructed away the memory that you were ever born and will ever die. Good luck doing that when the language that you use to speak with....is intertwined with schooling. 

[AtheisticNonduality]

20 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

The ego is memory. You cannot survive without memory. You can transcend it, but you cannot survive without it.

I think his memory is, in a sense, no longer his, since it is just another phenomenon/quality that is happening/existing. His identity with it has stopped, even if the memory holds his reality together as a system.

[Galyna]

6 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Its a silly illustration. The flower and the person are the SAME. There is no difference between the flower and the person.

This is not silly, how else can you describe it? He is trying to explain something with human language, how can I explain impersonal awareness. People wont get it.

Also, your mind and your language, all this philosophy are only on the way....

What if you do not have language? You would not know anything beyond your five senses.

 

17 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

@axiom I'm okay, I've been feeling extremely different since this happened. I feel some of my childhood traumas have been lifted. It kinda feels like young me is being resurrected from the dead... I should just accept my entire 20s was a write-off.

Yeah "impersonal awareness" might also work. It is literally just this:

Splendid! I agree with you. 

It took me ten years to experience that. But yeah, I am not in that state permanently. 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Galyna

[thisintegrated]

Well this is all stuff Leo often talks about.  That's why you are "nothing".  You're just whatever your experience is.

Was there any euphoria or altered state of consciousness?

 

(omg what is wrong with this forum.. says I have to wait 77 seconds before I can post, and just posts like 5 times.)

Edited August 16, 2022 by thisintegrated