The issue of degeneracy and how it relates to creepiness

[mr_engineer]

@something_else What if I told you that I had the answer to this question, in one word? Would you be open to it? 

This applies especially to the conscious, New-Age feminine women. I will tell you, all you have to do is ask. 

[something_else]

3 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

@something_else What if I told you that I had the answer to this question, in one word? Would you be open to it? 

This applies especially to the conscious, New-Age feminine women. I will tell you, all you have to do is ask. 

You don’t. Because if you did then every guy on the planet would know it and incels wouldn’t exist

But by all means, tell me

[mr_engineer]

@something_else It's Vulnerability. 

This is the answer to the question 'How do you hook women?'. That is one piece of the attraction-puzzle. 

Incels exist because they don't have the balls to do this. Because their attachment-style is avoidant. 

I'm not saying that doing it is easy. It's not. But, as theoretical knowledge, it's clear enough to me that you gotta know this if I'm gonna believe your attraction-advice. 

[something_else]

35 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

@something_else It's Vulnerability. 

This is the answer to the question 'How do you hook women?'. That is one piece of the attraction-puzzle. 

Incels exist because they don't have the balls to do this. Because their attachment-style is avoidant. 

I'm not saying that doing it is easy. It's not. But, as theoretical knowledge, it's clear enough to me that you gotta know this if I'm gonna believe your attraction-advice. 

I mean you have to be willing to put yourself out there as you are and get rejected hard for it. I guess that’s vulnerability

But it doesn’t help you to know “What hooks a woman? Vulnerability”

You can’t go out to a club armed with this quote and attract girls with it, which is why it’s kind of pointless to even think about that much

[mr_engineer]

@something_else In the club, you will not have rapport with most girls, because they won't have that ability to connect with you. Because they themselves are not in touch with their femininity. 

When they can connect with you, vulnerability is it. 

I mean, fine, you could want to get into her pants because of how she looks. But, will that really fulfil you?! I personally don't prefer that, cuz it sets up problematic patterns for having relationship in the future.

Also, if you don't have genuine rapport/connection, you'll have to use a different strategy to hook them that's more manipulative. My answer was for the kind of woman that I want, which is someone who is genuinely feminine. I don't bother with most club-girls. The situation may be different on that front. 

[something_else]

19 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

@something_else In the club, you will not have rapport with most girls, because they won't have that ability to connect with you. Because they themselves are not in touch with their femininity. 

When they can connect with you, vulnerability is it. 

I mean, fine, you could want to get into her pants because of how she looks. But, will that really fulfil you?! I personally don't prefer that, cuz it sets up problematic patterns for having relationship in the future.

Also, if you don't have genuine rapport/connection, you'll have to use a different strategy to hook them that's more manipulative. My answer was for the kind of woman that I want, which is someone who is genuinely feminine. I don't bother with most club-girls. The situation may be different on that front. 

Most of the girls you meet in clubs are literally just normal girls and you can connect with them like you connect with a girl elsewhere. Everyone loves to party

[mr_engineer]

@something_else Then why do they have 10,000 shit-tests? Someone who can genuinely connect with you won't have to do that. 

You honestly think that women can connect with you in a dingy bar/club, down a couple drinks?! Come on. Let's get real. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by mr_engineer

[mr_engineer]

@KH2 If a girl connects with you, she sees you. And if she sees you, she respects you! 

When she isn't connecting with you, what is the 'you' that she's not respecting? That's what she's projecting onto you and disrespecting. That's the 'you' she'll have a relationship with in the future, in fact. Not the real you. So, what's the point of being with someone who can't connect with you? 

I've been with women who can connect with me. No BS shit-tests. You know why? Cuz there is no competition from other guys. Cuz very few guys have the ability to receive it! 

You get the shit-tests when you're being a sheep like every other guy and going to a bar/club. That's when you get competition. And they have no incentive to connect with you. You are just one more drunk guy hitting on them, as far as they can tell. 

Similar issue with dating-apps, to be honest. Don't judge your self-worth by your success/failure in these environments. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by mr_engineer

[mr_engineer]

23 minutes ago, KH2 said:

A certain minority of women might prioritize connection before raw attraction. That's not a majority (no matter how much anecdotal evidence you might have to refute this claim).

Why is it, then, that when you ask any woman what she wants, she'll say that her priority is connection? Everyone will say that. And why does pick-up tell you that 'you shouldn't take women's advice on how to attract them'? And why is the success-rate so bad, if it's actually that objective about what works to get women? 

Why doesn't pick-up integrate the female perspective? It's very interesting to me, because when you think about it from a business-perspective, it is very important for a marketer/entrepreneur to study their market and what they want. Yeah, fine, what you offer to them might be something that they want and they don't want to admit to. But, how are you going to sell it to them, how are you going to get them to pay you their money for it, if they don't even admit that they want it?! 

[mr_engineer]

Women are biologically attracted to men and women want sex as much as men do. The crux of the issue here is that most rejections happen due to 'creepiness', or perceptions of it, in women's terms. In PUAs' terms, it's 'bad game'. This is the important gap in perspectives to bridge. 

So, if I were to pick one thing to over-analyze, it would be this topic. 

[something_else]

3 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

@something_else Then why do they have 10,000 shit-tests? Someone who can genuinely connect with you won't have to do that. 

You honestly think that women can connect with you in a dingy bar/club, down a couple drinks?! Come on. Let's get real. 

How much experience do you have with talking to girls in clubs?

And you don't go to dingy bars and clubs, you go to good bars and clubs.

Yea, the process of attracting girls in clubs is slightly different, you have to be quite high energy and exciting but it doesn't mean you can't connect. You're just connecting in a different way that suits the environment more. Connection doesn't have to be a dry conversation about your shared values over dinner, it can be comparing your vibe with each other in a chaotic environment like a club.

You make a lot of excuses which is probably going to hurt you a lot.

[mr_engineer]

@something_else I have a lot of experience. And it sucks, honestly. It's not 'fun' for me. I'd much rather have genuine connection. I won't be proud of getting sucked off in those environments anyways. 

13 minutes ago, KH2 said:

You behave a certain way, you get certain outcome.

When you say this, you're saying that they're like an unconscious machine that you manipulate to get laid. 

How is this objectification serving you in relationships? 

[mr_engineer]

3 minutes ago, KH2 said:

You'd are better off not giving a fuck, and just talk to chicks, having fun. Chances are you're going to get your "success rate" much higher than "incorporating female perspective". Not really necessary.

Just be outcome independent, confident and be willing to risk and learn from failures. That's what it comes to at the end of the day.

You are telling me to 'do these things', without any explanations as to why. Why should I believe you when you say this works? Who are you? 

Everybody's zonked out in a club. There is no room for connection at all!! 

How is this a solution to loneliness? I want explanations. Not 'just do this stuff and don't be stuck in your head'. 

Are you even coming from a space of loving and appreciating a woman's beauty?! Is there any emotional investment in this from your side at all? Or is it just a plumbing job?! 

[mr_engineer]

5 minutes ago, KH2 said:

By this definition, everything would be considered a manipulation. Come on.

Not if there are explicit expectations from her side, or if you clearly know how to create a win-win with the individual you're talking to. 

What you're trying to tell me is that compatibility can be manipulated. And, my question to that is, how does that solve the issue of loneliness? Are you going to tell me that it has nothing to do with women? Cuz if you think that, let me tell you - you don't know what connection is. 

[mr_engineer]

21 minutes ago, KH2 said:

Enlighten me.

The next time, when you see a really beautiful woman who you think is 'out of your league', instead of trying to run from her, try to breathe in her energy. Her feminine energy. And relax with it. Then, you'll experience connection. 

Most of the women who we think are 'out of our league', they actually have the ability to connect with us and heal us. 

It's outside your comfort-zone, cuz men are socialized into not feeling our emotions. 

21 minutes ago, KH2 said:

And how do you know it wasn't a win-win when she was sucking me off? She seemed to enjoy it.

It was a win for her. I'm not so sure about you! Doesn't solve the problem of loneliness. And, you did have to manipulate the situation by changing your behavior, you couldn't be free in your expression. 

If I had to manipulate a woman to get laid, I'd consider that an L for me, not a W. A W would be one in which she's actively participating in the relationship to make it work, it's a two-way street. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by mr_engineer

[mr_engineer]

5 minutes ago, KH2 said:

The whole concept of "outside my league" is what I'm trying to get rid off though. How is that gonna help me get the high quality woman I'd want to get married with? That's kinda shooting yourself in the foot.

And I'm telling you how you get rid of it. By connecting with them! 

The conditioning relative to 'leagues' comes from your mom, or what 'league' she considered herself to be in. It's similar to conditioning relative to socio-economic status, whether you're poor, middle-class or rich. And you gotta step up your game to get to the higher classes. And before that, you gotta believe that you can get there. 

5 minutes ago, KH2 said:

I don't really personally consider it a W or L, it's just an important experience. That's how I look at it - W-W was just a term I used for clarity.

Alright. Let me put it this way - it was a W-W, but not a W-W-W. Leo talks about the triple-W in his video on Stage Yellow. That's what it'd take to make a relationship work - you'd have to have it be a W for the 'relationship' as a third entity to yourself and her. 

Now, why would it be a 'L' for the relationship, and not a 'W'?! Because manipulation corrodes trust in the relationship. So, you can't trust each other, if you're constantly playing these games! 

Edited August 15, 2022 by mr_engineer

[something_else]

 

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

You are telling me to 'do these things', without any explanations as to why. Why should I believe you when you say this works? Who are you? 

You are looking for reasons, explanations, logical understanding. But you fundamentally misunderstand women by approaching it like this. Connecting with girls is not about being logical. You need to feel into your emotional side rather than trying to explain and understand everything.

Things are the way they are, feminine energy is chaotic, mysterious, it defies understanding by its very nature. You can only really start to get a grasp of it with experience and practice

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

I have a lot of experience. And it sucks, honestly. It's not 'fun' for me. I'd much rather have genuine connection.

Possibly it isn't the right environment for you, that's true. But often a lot of guys who say 'clubs aren't the right environment for me' are actually just terrified of club environments and then they invent all this pompous crap about connection or depth as a way to sooth their ego from not being able to cope with busy social environments. I know this because I used to do it.

It's totally possible to build connection in clubs. I've done it tons of times. I find it easier than elsewhere because in clubs you can do or say way more direct things than you can in day to day life, which makes it super quick to build up a connection with a girl.

You also don't need to build up a deep connection on the night. You can enjoy the superficial fun of partying, have a great time with a girl, and then you can set up future dates where you get to know each other on a deeper level.

The advantage of clubs is just that there are so many hot girls in one place at the same time that it gives you a massive amount of exposure.

Edited August 15, 2022 by something_else