Fixing an Emo girl,childhood trauma, daddy issues,relationships for troubled people

[Tyler Robinson]

@NoSelfSelf I don't agree at all. That's a negative attitude to hold 

Not everyone does things for ego. 

We sometimes do things out of humanity or goodwill. 

I'm sorry nobody showed you humanity. 

Like they say - God might pass you by and you still won't realize 

[NoSelfSelf]

@Tyler Robinson Dog showed me more humanity than any human...that little creature showed me uncoditional love that you or anyone can show me you are all just bullshiting and not even seeing it...

Goodwill and humanity is also your desire of the ego to be good

You wont see God if you dont see dark side of being a human and its really ugly and beautiful...

[Loba]

54 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Tyler Robinson You are deluding yourself you were benefiting from it you just are not aware of egos selfish masked ways but good for you for sticking for him...

No no no people alwaaayss do things to benefit themselves otherwise they wont be doing it...

Thats why nice guys or girls are dangerous dishonest most selfish of them all..

 

I agree with you there, someone healthy wouldn't be in a relationship with an unhealthy person unless there was a chink in the armour.  Unhealthy people attach to one another because of similar issues that they had in childhood that work well together... for a time...

I wouldn't say people always do things to benefit themselves, I mean, I've found myself doing things for others simply because at the time it seemed like the right thing to do.

Example - about four years ago a homeless man had passed out in front of my place and it was like 20 degrees outside and all he had on was a ski jacket so I brought out my down blanket and put it over him and left some pizza in a bag for him.  I didn't have to, there was no benefit to me and in fact, I did need that blanket, but it was a matter of - do I ignore this person and possibly have them die or do I do something so they don't literally freeze to death?

The thing is, I think people can make more of a difference in situations like this, so if you're someone who does have a chink in their armour and they want to help people, you can volunteer and stuff like that, you don't have to take people on as your pet projects.

[Loba]

And one more thing, it doesn't sit right with me that people offer their opinions on this and then they get called out in separate threads.  It reads like OP is forcing their opinion off in a call-out-thread on Nilsi, who is just a 22 year old kid.  22 year olds barely have enough life experience to help themselves let alone another person, it makes absolute sense that he wouldn't want to be dealing with a mentally ill girlfriend.  When you're young, the first few people that you date set in stone a lot of how you view the opposite sex and people that are barely adults don't need to be playing therapist with one another.  

Maybe, maybe a man in his late thirties to early forties, after having some experience, could perhaps help a younger woman who is off the track a little bit get back on it, but someone who is just two four three (apparently I can't count today.) years out of their teenage years isn't going to know what to do.  They're still developing themselves. 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Loba

[Pavement]

I think actually a person with a secure attachment is the best for going out with a ‘traumatised’ person.  Because 1. They aren’t easily affected by manipulation tactics and can keep a clear mind during insecure ones ‘tantrums’ … they just don’t really let it effect them since they’re confident in themselves  don’t take things too personally

2.they’re comfortable with being supportive and giving advice/guiding.  They don’t withdraw or avoid situations from their partner.  Being needed by a partner doesn’t scare them or push them away. 

3. They have social awareness and strong sense of self to not be worn down easily and to know when to walk away when things become abusive or overly toxic. They’re usually also good judge of character and see the good in people. 

so yeah if you are a conscious person but have issues and insecurities that you’re consciously working on then a relationship with a secure person is one of the best ways to help you work on yourself.  Basically by finding someone who is a rock and isn’t going to walk away at the first hurdle.  
 

worst relationship type will be with someone who is avoidant, that’s gonna prolong your troubles.  If you’re avoidant you gotta work on not being avoidant lol. 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Pavement

[Tyler Robinson]

3 hours ago, Pavement said:

I think actually a person with a secure attachment is the best for going out with a ‘traumatised’ person.  Because 1. They aren’t easily affected by manipulation tactics and can keep a clear mind during insecure ones ‘tantrums’ … they just don’t really let it effect them since they’re confident in themselves  don’t take things too personally

2.they’re comfortable with being supportive and giving advice/guiding.  They don’t withdraw or avoid situations from their partner.  Being needed by a partner doesn’t scare them or push them away. 

3. They have social awareness and strong sense of self to not be worn down easily and to know when to walk away when things become abusive or overly toxic. They’re usually also good judge of character and see the good in people. 

so yeah if you are a conscious person but have issues and insecurities that you’re consciously working on then a relationship with a secure person is one of the best ways to help you work on yourself.  Basically by finding someone who is a rock and isn’t going to walk away at the first hurdle.  
 

worst relationship type will be with someone who is avoidant, that’s gonna prolong your troubles.  If you’re avoidant you gotta work on not being avoidant lol. 

Oh wow this answer is truly impressive, something I was looking for. Brilliant. 

Yes a lot of healthy people could do that. I wouldn't encourage two unhealthy people together because they can complicate each other's issues instead of allowing healing. 

But a healthy secure person like you described can work with someone with disorder/trauma and help them cope and at the same time not get impacted by the negatives in the relationship because they're secure themselves. 

Your answer pretty much sums it up. 

 

[Loba]

That is terrible advice as unhealthy people can make healthy people unhealthy.  People with personality disorders and other issues shouldn't be leaning in on healthy people to "fix" them.  It's clear that after years of trolling this site and others, looking for men to fix her, OP hasn't learned anything.  Have any of them fixed you yet?  No.  Because only you can fix you.  SMH.  Seriously, grow out of this need for other people to fix and cater to you, it's so old it isn't even funny.

[Tyler Robinson]

2 hours ago, JoeVolcano said:

I was that guy. Of course I was troubled myself as well. But nothing compared to her. I have never loved anyone that way before, or since. And when it inevitably fell apart, it left me utterly devastated. That's what happens when both people are troubled. That was over 15 years ago and it was the first time in my life I became suicidal.

Your situation is a bit different. I would highly recommend against this. A troubled person has to fix themselves before dealing with another troubled person, Lmao. You can't be the savior if you're unhealthy yourself. It's like a sick person is playing doctor. To a certain extent this can still work, for example I can see a pairing between a person with anger issues and a person with alcohol addiction. They can help each other because their core issues are unrelated. One is battling emotions and the other is battling addictions. Both could have mental issues that could be different. 

But I can't see a successful pairing between a person with depression and a person with anger issues. The person with constant anger outbursts can actually make the depressed person feel more depressed or demotivated. Such relationships can easily turn extremely toxic. So if you fit into these boxes then, I agree, you should never play savior to someone who also has issues, especially when those issues are either similar to yours or if those issues get negatively impacted by the combining of your issues with theirs. That's a fatal mix. So I can easily see why you were suicidal. That was a stupid mistake. Negotiations regarding issues early on are extremely important. You can't simply enter a relationship without actually  knowing if you can cope or manage the other person's issues or not. 

For example it is tough for me to handle a bipolar person because they give me anxiety. 

But I could be okay with someone who is depressed or addicted because they don't complicate my emotions or they don't stress me out. 

So. I can handle them. In fact I have. 

2 hours ago, JoeVolcano said:

The thing is, only troubled people want to be together with troubled people. Like James Swartz says in the video, you want to feel needed by the other person, and v.v. Feeling needed is such a security prop for the insecure. And it feels soooo good to be that special someone, that someone else can't live without. Yeah... Tell me about it. That is co-dependence. I know it all too well. It almost killed me.

This is a common flawed dynamic I observe in plenty of relationships which needs to be resolved. I have seen that a lot of troubled people instantly jump into a relationship with another troubled person. The underlying thought behind this is that they find the other person relatable. They think that they have something common to bond over and that they have someone who can understand their issues better. Meanwhile this is a good thought and I can see the simplistic reasoning behind why this would be considered favorable, the reality of such relationships is far from fantasy, a drug addict can make another drug addict'S issues much more complicated than helping each other out. Similarly a person with anger issues bonds with another person who has anger issues can lead to too much fighting and stress, constantly getting angry at one another. 

So the whole idea that another person with similar issues is more relatable can sometimes be a farce. 

I can still imagine a situation where such a dynamic can still hold some weight for what it's worth. For example if an alcohol addict is trying to bond with another alcohol addict who has fully recovered and been sober. The sober one can easily relate to the struggles of the currently  struggling addict and also help them heal using their knowledge and experience with the issue. This can work incredibly well if the struggling addict fully cooperate with the sober one and make it work. But this is a unique situation with caveats in place to make it more cozy and bearable. 

Most relationships (psychologically speaking), where two disordered people are paired together can easily turn toxic to each other. 

 

2 hours ago, JoeVolcano said:

If one of them isn't troubled and the other is, I guarantee you the untroubled person wouldn't want to be with the troubled person. I know it's harsh, but they'd know better than to invite that into their lives. It sounds nice in theory, but in practice it doesn't work that way.

I don't agree with this fully. It does look nice to escape the issues of the disordered person and it makes sense but I have seen couples that are doing really great with one person healthy and the other with a disorder. I have a couple in my community where a healthy man is married to a schizophrenic woman. The healthy guy helped her get meds and therapy and helped her cope. She is doing much better now than before and their relationship is very loving and solid. But he is extremely devoted and loving and that's why it works. He didn't just dump her because of her issues but was ready to make it work with her. 

2 hours ago, JoeVolcano said:

I'm not talking about minor quirks. If you love someone, then of course you love them warts and all. It's only endearing. But that is not this.

But anyway I also know that when you're troubled, you don't see it this way.

 

Not many of those around.

This is a good point. You can't work with someone who got major issues. For example if a person is a heroin addict and they just don't give up, these are cases with not much hope of recovery and I would not recommend a healthy person to waste time trying to fix them because they're in some way "not fixable" or have reached what I call "the point of no return." Those cases cannot be handled even by therapists or doctors let alone partners. 

But common mental disorders, trauma, dysfunctions, issues aren't beyond repair or help and a healthier person can help them cope and recover and have a great relationship as well. 

[Gesundheit2]

7 hours ago, Loba said:

I wouldn't say people always do things to benefit themselves, I mean, I've found myself doing things for others simply because at the time it seemed like the right thing to do.

Example - about four years ago a homeless man had passed out in front of my place and it was like 20 degrees outside and all he had on was a ski jacket so I brought out my down blanket and put it over him and left some pizza in a bag for him.  I didn't have to, there was no benefit to me and in fact, I did need that blanket, but it was a matter of - do I ignore this person and possibly have them die or do I do something so they don't literally freeze to death?

Still, I would say that at some level, there has to be some sort of outcome that you are looking for, namely in this case it could be the feeling of being a good person, or that there's still good in the world, maybe just to avoid the feeling of guilt, or because you're an empath and you felt his pain, etc.

Ultimately, and no matter how you slice it, from your perspective and on a subconscious level, there is a search for meaning. You did something because it gave your life a certain meaning that you wanted and preferred over another meaning that you despised at least at that point in time. I'm doing the same thing here by the way, so in no way I am implying anything "holier than thou". It's just that at the end of the day, there's no such a thing as a completely pure/selfless action. All human actions are polluted with ego/personal agendas, at least from the same person's subconscious pov that they are often not aware of.

It simply doesn't have to be a direct material outcome that you're looking for. Any outcome; physical, psychological, etc. will do.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Loba]

@Gesundheit2 It was quite automatic, I didn't really give my actions much thought in the moment but I did afterwards; I just felt responsible for his life because no one was paying him any attention, it was starting to get late and I knew that the weather could get into the teens and that he might die there and it gave me a sense of worry and guilt that people get into these situations and people just walk by them every day and some of them suffer because of it.  He was right outside my place, I had just bought the whole pizza and I felt like an ass, going into my warm home, with my food while someone was sitting out there freezing to death.

The next morning the blanket and food were gone so I assumed he used the blanket and took the food when he woke up.  It stuck out in my mind as an action specifically because I hadn't really premeditated on it, and during times when I wonder about what kind of person I am, if I am good or bad, I think back on these moments and can see that when push comes to shove if I can do something for another human being who is absolutely going to perish without a blanket, then I will do that thing.

But then again, I've also done some pretty bad things in life, so I can't get a good gauge on if I am "good" or "bad", I know that it's more complicated than that, but I just want to know.  I didn't do it to feel good about myself or anything, I just registered it as an emergency situation for that man.  The outcome that I was looking for was to prevent someone's death, I guess.

[NoSelfSelf]

@Loba I get it and benefiting is not always gaining something its also not trying to lose something you have i dont want this to happen so ill do this...

Empathy is also queastionable thing because you wont be empathic with everything only things you believe in and find justified by your self agenda...as you can see im brutally honest with stuff its tough to swallow this things if not used to...

[Gesundheit2]

@Loba For me, that was one of the most liberating insights I'd ever had. It taught me to stop taking things personally, because we're all just blatantly selfish and looking for our best interests at all times. If I'm just as selfish as everyone else, then anything that happens to me is fair. I was like, dude, you let yourself get away with so much subtle selfishness but then you get hung up when others are selfish, why is that? And of course, the answer was because I'm selfish  So the only thing left for me to do after that was to bite the bullet and accept my selfishness consciously instead of unconsciously, which paradoxically enough, ended up actually benefiting me a lot.

But maybe things are different for you. I don't know.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[NoSelfSelf]

@Gesundheit2 ????

[Tyler Robinson]

1 minute ago, JoeVolcano said:

I'm not talking about dumping someone who develops issues, but getting together with someone who already has issues.

Of course when you already love someone then you're not just going to trade them in when it suits you.

Good. 

[Loba]

@Gesundheit2 No dude, that makes sense.  I like to eat the extra bagel.

[Juressic]

On 8/12/2022 at 7:13 PM, Tyler Robinson said:

Fixing an Emo girl, traumatic childhood, daddy issues, relationships for troubled people 

(to clear things up a bit for starters, I didn't have daddy issues but I had trauma issues). 

I always looked for a caring father  figure in my relationships and I did act like a clingy needy girlfriend. But I don't see a problem with it unless it gets overbearing. 

What's the big deal if a guy acted like a father figure to me? I don't see the harm. I don't see the harm in him trying to fix me. If we're mutually sharing and caring for each other. 

The general conjecture from the tone of the forum is pretty much negative towards anyone who is dysfunctional, disordered, with Emo and trauma issues. I get that you guys come a pd(personal development) perspective so you're gonna be a bit hardcore (your time is precious and all that). 

But why is helping others such a bad deal? 

It would be incredibly judgemental in my perspective to simply discard a person or reject them because they have a history of trauma and not consider them fit for a relationship. 

Enlighten me here. I'm not talking about putting up with abuse, that's out of question and goes without saying. 

Yet, do you really believe that dysfunctional people don't deserve a chance at relationships? 

You could find a troubled man/woman and be their therapist, help them sort themselves out, be Empathetic(without tolerating abuse), accompany them to their therapy sessions, give them your love, babysit them, fix their life, help them find a new life and then happily grow with them. Why is this looked down upon? 

I understand that relationships should involve giving and receiving, sharing and mutual development. 

@Nilsi not trying to put you on the spot here (you could even tell me to remove this if you want), but your comment sort of motivated me to post this thread. I understand your perspective involves having a healthy relationship and not wasting time. As you stated in this comment. 

@Nilsi

 

We can have a broader discussion on this matter. 

This rhetoric is similar to "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" or "we don't want to accommodate disabled people because they don't serve our best interests or purpose." 

Although this attitude absolves you from serving the needs of the disadvantaged and the troubled, it is incredibly myopic because it almost becomes discriminatory towards dysfunctional people, bordering on treating them as outcasts and undeserving of love. 

I could easily see a problem with a person who doesn't want to help themselves, in such a case it's a waste of time trying so hard to fix them. 

But what's so wrong about someone who is willing to grow with you. Someone who wants to make it work. Why would you want to discard people simply because they have mental disorders or trauma. Maybe they're immature and needy in your eyes. Troubled, Emo, dysfunctional, disordered in your eyes. But you could guide them, work with them as though you're working on a project, support them and wait for them to heal and have a wonderful relationship with them. No? 

Wouldn't you be happier to know that you brought a positive impact in someone's life, you fixed them and they had a chance to grow with you. 

Why is trying to fix an Emo girl/boy looked down upon? Unhealthy people also deserve a chance. Have mercy. 

Your arguments are welcome. 

 

I think I've been fixing those people whole my life.. and they always telling me that problem is in me, that I'm not giving them enough, that I'm too selfish, that I'm speaking to them from above, while they screaming, braking things and listening my calm conversation, and my calm conversation making them even more mad. I'm type of person that is extrovert with friends and self-sufficient at home, and I'm always attract that kind of women's.

LITTLE RELATIONSHIP STORY:
-First she said 'once a week is not enough, I want to see you twice a week' (depressed) ,
-I said ok we'll meetup twice a week.
-Then she said 'Twice a week is not enough' (depressed),
-I said ok I'll see you every other day then.
-Then she said 'Every other day is not enough, I want to see you every day (sad)',
-I said ok.
-Then she said 'Why don't you call me to move in with you, you obviously don't love me (crying)', I said ok let's live together.
-Then she said 'Why have you walked away from bed without hugging me (nervous)',
-I returned and hugged her..
-"it's not enough, hug me more (depressed)"... 
-I said "But I have to pee it's too hot on this summer day, I feel awesome with you, why are you depressed..."
-She said "You don't love me, you always leaving, I'm not attractive to you, I want to feel secured and loved, I want to leave you.."

[Tyler Robinson]

1 minute ago, Juressic said:

I think I've been fixing those people whole my life.. and they always telling me that problem is in me, that I'm not giving them enough, that I'm too selfish, that I'm speaking to them from above, while they screaming, braking things and listening my calm conversation, and my calm conversation making them even more mad. I'm type of person that is extrovert with friends and self-sufficient at home, and I'm always attract that kind of women's.

LITTLE RELATIONSHIP STORY:
-First she said 'once a week is not enough, I want to see you twice a week' (depressed) ,
-I said ok we'll meetup twice a week.
-Then she said 'Twice a week is not enough' (depressed),
-I said ok I'll see you every other day then.
-Then she said 'Every other day is not enough, I want to see you every day (sad)',
-I said ok.
-Then she said 'Why don't you call me to move in with you, you obviously don't love me (crying)', I said ok let's live together.
-Then she said 'Why have you walked away from bed without hugging me (nervous)',
-I returned and hugged her..
-"it's not enough, hug me more (depressed)"... 
-I said "But I have to pee it's too hot on this summer day, I feel awesome with you, why are you depressed..."
-She said "You don't love me, you always leaving, I'm not attractive to you, I want to feel secured and loved, I want to leave you.."

Depends on how you want to take it. Don't like those then drop them from your life. 

Personally I don't have a problem with a needy guy because I'm needy myself. So I can't really complain. 

I'd be so happy if a guy needed me the way this girl needs you. I would feel so wanted. 

But I don't want to be wanted and then abandoned. 

Also I don't want to be wanted like some toy or food that you keep ordering. 

I want it to make me feel genuinely needed and wanted and not simply because they feel alone, aka I don't want to feel replaceable. 

Your case is extreme. Like "not allowing you to pee"... That's extreme. 

If a person said that the problem is in you, I won't recommend being with them. I personally don't like people who say things like "you're the problem" in a relationship. That's not a harmonious person. 

 

[Juressic]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Depends on how you want to take it. Don't like those then drop them from your life. 

Personally I don't have a problem with a needy guy because I'm needy myself. So I can't really complain. 

I'd be so happy if a guy needed me the way this girl needs you. I would feel so wanted. 

But I don't want to be wanted and then abandoned. 

Also I don't want to be wanted like some toy or food that you keep ordering. 

I want it to make me feel genuinely needed and wanted and not simply because they feel alone, aka I don't want to feel replaceable. 

Your case is extreme. Like "not allowing you to pee"... That's extreme. 

If a person said that the problem is in you, I won't recommend being with them. I personally don't like people who say things like "you're the problem" in a relationship. That's not a harmonious person. 

 

I'm afraid when you truly fix a broken bird,
she will fly away, and won't look back anymore,
maybe will laugh at your walk, 
maybe drop some shit on you cloth.

-song by me  

I had two 5 years relationships like that.  I've never understood neediness, or loneliness when I'm in relationship. In relationship I always felt loved, secured, even when I've been totally depressed or too far from the loved one for weeks. And I've never cheated and always had too much trust in her, giving her freedom to do what she wants. 
I don't know should I continue that kind of relationship, 'cause I'm quite opposite of that 'daddy issues' mentality...
But I love her and after few days she always apologies, telling me that I was right... but it repeats again and again in circles.
All I want for her is to truly love her self, and then I would love her 10 times bigger and our love would start multiplying!
If she begs for love in some sad depressed way, telling me that I'm the problem for her sadness ...  then my psyche is confused and for some reason doesn't want it to happen. That's natural reaction I guess.

[Tyler Robinson]

Just now, Juressic said:

I'm afraid when you truly fix a broken bird,
she will fly away, and won't look back anymore,
maybe will laugh at your walk, 
maybe drop some shit on you cloth.

-song by me  

I had two 5 years relationships like that.  I've never understood neediness, or loneliness when I'm in relationship. In relationship I always felt loved, secured, even when I've been totally depressed or too far from the loved one for weeks. And I've never cheated and always had too much trust in her, giving her freedom to do what she wants. 
I don't know should I continue that kind of relationship, 'cause I'm quite opposite of that 'daddy issues' mentality...
But I love her and after few days she always apologies, telling me that I was right... but it repeats again and again in circles.
All I want for her is to truly love her self, and then I would love her 10 times bigger and our love would start multiplying!
If she begs for love in some sad depressed way, telling me that I'm the problem for her sadness ...  then my psyche is confused and for some reason doesn't want it to happen. That's natural reaction I guess.

Obviously. I had a guy like that. He was very needy. He would call me at all times. Then If he was upset, somehow I was to be held responsible for it. I didn't know how to fix him. But I don't think he needed fixing. People who truly need you in a vulnerable way would not be whining about little things. They won't blame you. They won't find a reason to leave you. They won't blackmail that they'll leave you if things didn't work out their way. 

Now I had two men do that to me. One who would also make it sound like I did something to them. Like a beggar. 

And the other who would pressure me to agree to his demands. 

I don't think these are truly needy people. Needy people would be grateful if you spent time With them. 

These people are controlling. They want to emotionally abuse the other person. By playing victim. By pressuring. 

Both are examples of controlling guys. 

Wanting to control someone and neediness are two different things 

A controlling person might make you feel guilty even if you tried your best to accommodate their needs. 

I think your gf is a controlling person. 

I'm a needy clingy girlfriend too. But there is a difference. I only freak out if the other person isn't doing anything to make me feel safe or wanted. I become suspicious quickly. 

But I won't say that they are not keeping me happy or they are the reason of my sadness. In fact I would be grateful for every moment they share with me. 

And I don't pressure anyone in a relationship. Nor do I threaten to leave. 

You were in an emotionally abusive relationship. But that's not the same thing as being with a broken or disordered person. 

Unstable behaviors, issues and disorders come in different shades, one radically different from another. 

So meanwhile you found a disordered person who was being nitpicky and too demanding with you, not every disordered person can be put in the same box.. 

[Juressic]

The same was with my girlfriend, she had a guy who had controlling and calling her all the time, stalking and begging for love... then she met me and became that guy herself, but I've told her that I don't like to talk on the phone, just messaging.. 100 messages a day, and once I didn't reply in few hours, and she gets mad.
Once I've hang out with friends at concert and she spend all night messaging me and checking my social media profile in order to find something suspicious. And I don't know why she always have need to ruin my night when we hang out and I feel amazing, by criticizing me out of the blue, just because she don't feel good as I am. That's something strange to me.

I think the root of all that issues is jealousy, problem is someone other who might stole what was theirs.
Why would someone like to control, pressure, sabotage... it's like some ownership...
I think it's fear of loss. Lack of trust. Lack of self-confidence. Lack of self-love.

That's crazy to me, it's utterly stupid.. People should work on themselves to be happy, not on others to make them happy.. because others will leave one day for sure! Maybe they will fall in love with someone else.. But if our happiness have relied on their hugs, we will be absolutely miserable to the point where we literarily would like to kill that person. That is happening a lot and it's scary. Killing someone 'cause you love him.. hmm.. seems like paradox, but it's actually lack of love.