I'm slipping into incel mentality

[BlessedLion]

3 hours ago, Jake Chambers said:

@Tyler Robinson I definitely agree with you that it's best to change that attitude. I am just saying that the masculine core of each man holds a great love for the divine feminine, and that many dysfunctional thought patterns and behavioural patterns typical to men stem from this great love and respect for the feminine. I am pointing this out to you because i sense from your reactions a downplaying of  the importance for men of feminine sexual energy and judgment (a woman giving sex to a man is the most positive judgement she can give him). I am not justifying disfunctional incel behaviour, I am just highlighting the deep emotional core that men have towards this. Women have a better inherent system of self-love. Men require a lot more love from the outside because their internal self-love system is less developed by evolutionary design. men had to be ruthless killers throughout history to protect their family, so they had to cut themselves off from their own love. But they still desire it greatly. Like I said a woman's love is the highest good for a man's emotional core, because he values women so much, a woman's love literally is a man's own divine love reflected back at him. Women need less of this reflecting from their partners because their own internal self love system is much more developed than a mans.

So what i am pointing out is that changing this attitude is definitely needed for men to solve this issue, just like you said. I'm just stating that for a men this goes a lot deeper than simply changing your attitude to food for example. A man has to take responsibility for his own self love to do this which is generally very hard to do for men. Like I said men are like children still when it comes to self love while women are inherently developed much more in this. To say you have to simply change your attitude about this to a man is like a man saying to a woman, "just bench 200lbs bro." I can do it easily.

But yeah we basically agree. I just wished more women knew how much love us men really have for women deep inside. I have been a total mysoginist criminal asshole in my life and it was all because my own self esteem, how deep down behind all the demonic hate and ego I felt about that women didn't love me while i had so much love for them. Changing myself from this was the hardest thing I've done in my life.

You have some strong points here. But I think higher than a woman’s love is Gods love. If you can merge into Gods love, a Woman’s love is powerful, but you don’t need anything from her because God has your heart and your back and humans will ALWAYS come and go 
 

I also used to be pretty Red Pill, but now Women are like the most amazing creatures I’ve ever seen, and it breaks my heart how unappreciated they are.

[mr_engineer]

@Tyler Robinson What you're saying tells me that YOU don't have that much to offer to a man. There are other women who we really love and adore! I'm just telling you that it happens. And you could change this for yourself too. 

[EternalForest]

Well look at it logically. They don't want you right now. That's pretty clear, so stop giving a fuck. Focus on other things. Pretend like you're the last man on earth. What would you do with your time? Do that. Truth is, that internal urge you're feeling is going to come and go. It's biological. But that doesn't mean you have no control over it. I'm in the same position as you, and I stopped caring about the dating shit a long time ago. Once you accept you're never going to participate in it, and you're okay with that, things become a lot easier.

Now obviously, if an opportunity with a woman comes your way, experiment with it. And if you look at the numbers, there are billions of women in this world. At least one of them will want to have sex with you. If you have problems with all 3 billion of those people, you've got bigger problems! Give it a shot. Just hope for the best, and expect the worst, and you'll be fine. Your frustration at the moment is that you're expecting the best because you think you're a great guy. Sadly, women don't agree lol. But it's not your problem. Just once again, focus on your own shit.

The urge is never going to go away, so you basically have 2 options:

a) Continue sulking and be miserable.

b) Say fuck em, and enjoy your life.

I'd choose Option B.

Edited August 11, 2022 by EternalForest

[Tyler Robinson]

13 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

@Tyler Robinson What you're saying tells me that YOU don't have that much to offer to a man. There are other women who we really love and adore! I'm just telling you that it happens. And you could change this for yourself too. 

That's getting a little personal. Same right back at you. Please don't mention me in the future, you're blocked. 

 

[Tyler Robinson]

4 hours ago, Jake Chambers said:

@Tyler Robinson I definitely agree with you that it's best to change that attitude. I am just saying that the masculine core of each man holds a great love for the divine feminine, and that many dysfunctional thought patterns and behavioural patterns typical to men stem from this great love and respect for the feminine. I am pointing this out to you because i sense from your reactions a downplaying of  the importance for men of feminine sexual energy and judgment (a woman giving sex to a man is the most positive judgement she can give him). I am not justifying disfunctional incel behaviour, I am just highlighting the deep emotional core that men have towards this. Women have a better inherent system of self-love. Men require a lot more love from the outside because their internal self-love system is less developed by evolutionary design. men had to be ruthless killers throughout history to protect their family, so they had to cut themselves off from their own love. But they still desire it greatly. Like I said a woman's love is the highest good for a man's emotional core, because he values women so much, a woman's love literally is a man's own divine love reflected back at him. Women need less of this reflecting from their partners because their own internal self love system is much more developed than a mans.

So what i am pointing out is that changing this attitude is definitely needed for men to solve this issue, just like you said. I'm just stating that for a men this goes a lot deeper than simply changing your attitude to food for example. A man has to take responsibility for his own self love to do this which is generally very hard to do for men. Like I said men are like children still when it comes to self love while women are inherently developed much more in this. To say you have to simply change your attitude about this to a man is like a man saying to a woman, "just bench 200lbs bro." I can do it easily.

But yeah we basically agree. I just wished more women knew how much love us men really have for women deep inside. I have been a total mysoginist criminal asshole in my life and it was all because my own self esteem, how deep down behind all the demonic hate and ego I felt about that women didn't love me while i had so much love for them. Changing myself from this was the hardest thing I've done in my life.

I think this is the same mentality that leads to misogyny. You've some serious delusions going on there and to make women the center of your life is dangerous, you're giving them way too much authority. You don't need anyone's validation in this world to thrive, and this applies to both men and women. This kind of love is just toxic obsession. It comes from desperation. A confident man is not begging for a woman, he knows he can love her when she is ready to receive. You seem to be overcompensating something, maybe you hated women in the past, I don't know. But if a man told me that he simply cannot function without women, I'd consider that as a weak man. That man wouldn't look strong in my eyes. And a woman is always scanning for strength in a man. 

Whatever you wrote is fine from an emotional perspective. But not from a self development perspective. 

[BlessedLion]

3 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

I think this is the same mentality that leads to misogyny. You've some serious delusions going on there and to make women the center of your life is dangerous, you're giving them way too much authority. You don't need anyone's validation in this world to thrive, and this applies to both men and women. This kind of love is just toxic obsession. It comes from desperation. A confident man is not begging for a woman, he knows he can love her when she is ready to receive. You seem to be overcompensating something, maybe you hated women in the past, I don't know. But if a man told me that he simply cannot function without women, I'd consider that as a weak man. That man wouldn't look strong in my eyes. And a woman is always scanning for strength in a man. 

Whatever you wrote is fine from an emotional perspective. But not from a self development perspective. 

@Tyler Robinson You wrote it perfectly. There’s way too much of a fixation and obsession here 

[Tyler Robinson]

19 minutes ago, EternalForest said:

Well look at it logically. They don't want you right now. That's pretty clear, so stop giving a fuck. Focus on other things. Pretend like you're the last man on earth. What would you do with your time? Do that. Truth is, that internal urge you're feeling is going to come and go. It's biological. But that doesn't mean you have no control over it. I'm in the same position as you, and I stopped caring about the dating shit a long time ago. Once you accept you're never going to participate in it, and you're okay with that, things become a lot easier.

Now obviously, if an opportunity with a woman comes your way, experiment with it. And if you look at the numbers, there are billions of women in this world. At least one of them will want to have sex with you. If you have problems with all 3 billion of those people, you've got bigger problems! Give it a shot. Just hope for the best, and expect the worst, and you'll be fine. Your frustration at the moment is that you're expecting the best because you think you're a great guy. Sadly, women don't agree lol. But it's not your problem. Just once again, focus on your own shit.

The urge is never going to go away, so you basically have 2 options:

a) Continue sulking and be miserable.

b) Say fuck em, and enjoy your life.

I'd choose Option B.

This was perfect. My perspective as well. 

[mr_engineer]

8 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

I think this is the same mentality that leads to misogyny. You've some serious delusions going on there and to make women the center of your life is dangerous, you're giving them way too much authority. You don't need anyone's validation in this world to thrive, and this applies to both men and women. This kind of love is just toxic obsession. It comes from desperation. A confident man is not begging for a woman, he knows he can love her when she is ready to receive. You seem to be overcompensating something, maybe you hated women in the past, I don't know. But if a man told me that he simply cannot function without women, I'd consider that as a weak man. That man wouldn't look strong in my eyes. And a woman is always scanning for strength in a man. 

Whatever you wrote is fine from an emotional perspective. But not from a self development perspective. 

What this tells me is that you don't know what femininity is and what the need for connection is. This is stuff that other women offer to us men. But, you don't get this cuz you don't offer it!! You just judge other men from a 'morally superior' perspective. 

This tells me that your self-worth is low. I'd work on fixing that instead of lecturing men on 'how to be independent'. 

[mr_engineer]

@Tyler Robinson It's like me saying to you 'Women can be strong and independent!! They don't need the law created by men to protect them. So, if you say that you have this need, you're WEAK!!' What would you say to me if I said that?! You'd say 'You don't know how to protect women, so you think women shouldn't need it', right?! 

Edited August 11, 2022 by mr_engineer

[Breakingthewall]

A guy like you should travel, try living in other countries, new friends, new experiences. you're 26 but soon you'll be 36. don't take it so easy, act.

[Tyler Robinson]

@mr_engineer you're taking it in a seriously twisted way so I don't know how to explain it to you. There is too much bitterness and assumption and negativity in your post. 

I never meant to be morally superior even in the slightest. I don't even know how morality even got into this conversation when I never spoke about morals at all. I was talking about empowerment not morality. This has nothing to do with what anyone has to offer. You bring things into a discussion that just don't belong, like strawmanning me on an absurd scale. 

I was talking about being empowered. And that means not giving power or authority to someone who can take advantage. This is a very generic advice anyone would offer on literally any self help platform out there so I don't see what I did was so wrong other than you just wanting to find something for nothing. 

You can't rely on anyone in this world for your emotional needs, much less the opposite gender. If I told you something like I can't live without men, you would tell me to grow up. Because that's childish. Men and women are equal.. I should need a man only as much as he needs me, not more. Otherwise there's a power imbalance, a codependency. 

Gender and relationships is only a part of your life but not your whole life. It's not just about men being independent. Every human, man or woman has to learn it. Both emotional and financial independence. You can't be living like a kid in this world. It's only when you're independent your cup is full. Being dependent is either due to some trauma or neurosis. 

It's one thing to offer love and another thing to be so dependent on it that you can't function without it. 

So an emotionally independent person, man or woman can also offer you love, but in a much matured way, not in a silly way where both of you cannot live without each other or toxic dependency where it becomes a constant preoccupation or addiction taking your focus away from other things in life. 

Well it's nice that a man can offer his Masculinity to me, it shouldn't be anything more than that. It enriches life for sure but that's where it stops. Being so dependent on relationships is a sure sign for trouble. Most people like that end up in abusive relationships because they can't think they can get away, they're stuck in thinking that they need it too much to live without it. It causes a person to become fragile and weak and totally dependent to the point that they start tolerating abuse just to keep the relationship. That's what codependency is. 

There is no low self worth in self empowerment. In fact there is low self worth if you rely on others to decide your worth.. 

You have an egotistical stick up your ass. That's why I would simply avoid talking to you. You're using words like "lecturing to men" when I was simply suggesting. There's no point in arguing or debating you. You come up with shitty assumptions on someone's good intent. Move on. 

 

 

[mr_engineer]

1 minute ago, Tyler Robinson said:

You can't rely on anyone in this world for your emotional needs, much less the opposite gender.

I have found this to not be the case, I've found people I can trust. And you're advocating the opposite of that, which tells me that you don't want to be one of those people. Which is fine, just telling you about a reality you don't know about. 

2 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

If I told you something like I can't live without men, you would tell me to grow up.

You cannot live without men! You wouldn't survive a month without men. 

2 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Men and women are equal..

Then why don't we combine men and women's categories in sports?! 

2 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

I should need a man only as much as he needs me, not more. Otherwise there's a power imbalance, a codependency. 

A power-imbalance is not codependency. You can choose which authority-figure suits you based on your needs. And you won't be codependent on any one of them. 

3 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Being so dependent on relationships is a sure sign for trouble.

Life is relationships. You need to grow up. 

4 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Most people like that end up in abusive relationships because they can't think they can get away, they're stuck in thinking that they need it too much to live without it. It causes a person to become fragile and weak and totally dependent to the point that they start tolerating abuse just to keep the relationship. That's what codependency is. 

The solution to this problem is to go out and find more people, have an abundance of people to depend on. Not to become independent. 

4 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

There is no low self worth in self empowerment. In fact there is low self worth if you rely on others to decide your worth.. 

In society, we depend on each other. That is the reality. And, believe it or not, other people decide what we're worth. That's what they give us. 

If you decide you're worth a million dollars and if nobody else had that power, you could snap your fingers and you'd have a million dollars in your bank-account. Unfortunately, that's not how this works. 

6 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

You have an egotistical stick up your ass. That's why I would simply avoid talking to you. You're using words like "lecturing to men" when I was simply suggesting. There's no point in arguing or debating you. You come up with shitty assumptions on someone's good intent. Move on. 

Projection. 

[Tyler Robinson]

@mr_engineer Lmao there are so many things that are wrong with your post that I won't care to dissect. You have a total different mentality that is almost borderline old style sexism.. And you project an awful lot on me 

I guess the best is to avoid discussing with you because we both aren't on the same page anymore. Have a good day. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Tyler Robinson

[tezk]

@Someone here

( my advice )

• focus on figuring out your purpose if you haven't already. Go after what you love. Connect deeply with what you love about life. This will ground you and fill you with love. Discover what gives you an erection for life
• cold approach/work on your dating skills on the side. Do whatever you gotta do to grow in this department. Join a pickup group, improve your health, microdose, etc. If you focus exclusively on cold approaching, it can become too depressing to handle. That's why you gotta balance it with something "hearty" in life, like a passionate and exciting life purpose, art, hobbies, etc. Watch some RSDTyler biography videos, he went through a very rough path to become the man he is today. Anything is possible!!
• a mistake would be to sit back and think something is just gonna fall in your lap. It just doesn't work that way unless you are already somewhat confident or you don't care about the quality of chick. The GREAT NEWS is that you are still young at 26! You don't want to turn 50 and still have these issues, it will be a lot harder at 50 to fix this stuff than at 26
• own your darkest desires. If you want to fuck hot girls, go after it mate!! Consensually of course 

good luck brother 
you got this

 

[Nilsi]

11 hours ago, Someone here said:

I agree .I have to take action .I try but I fail .so I try again .but I fail again. So is it just a matter of trying til ya get lucky some random time? 

Also ,I get too lost in theory instead of action.

How do I take action and start improving my life, instead of just planning?

I always try and make the perfect plan (not that it’s a bad thing) instead of just taking action. I know I should take action but I never do.

How do I take action instead of constantly planning?

 

This has nothing to do with luck. What you get out of this will be exactly proportional to what you put into it. 

Make your plan, and then execute it. If you make a plan to go to the gym 3 times a week and go to the club to approach girls every weekend and read one philosophy book a week, there is really nothing more to think about. You're using your planning as an excuse not to take action, so hold yourself accountable for this bullshit.

[something_else]

4 hours ago, EternalForest said:

Well look at it logically. They don't want you right now. That's pretty clear, so stop giving a fuck. Focus on other things. Pretend like you're the last man on earth. What would you do with your time? Do that. Truth is, that internal urge you're feeling is going to come and go. It's biological. But that doesn't mean you have no control over it. I'm in the same position as you, and I stopped caring about the dating shit a long time ago. Once you accept you're never going to participate in it, and you're okay with that, things become a lot easier.

Now obviously, if an opportunity with a woman comes your way, experiment with it. And if you look at the numbers, there are billions of women in this world. At least one of them will want to have sex with you. If you have problems with all 3 billion of those people, you've got bigger problems! Give it a shot. Just hope for the best, and expect the worst, and you'll be fine. Your frustration at the moment is that you're expecting the best because you think you're a great guy. Sadly, women don't agree lol. But it's not your problem. Just once again, focus on your own shit.

The urge is never going to go away, so you basically have 2 options:

a) Continue sulking and be miserable.

b) Say fuck em, and enjoy your life.

I'd choose Option B.

Or, how about option (c)... which is actually go and learn how to be more attractive to girls 

Your options that you listed are basically (a) do nothing and (b) give up

But worded slightly more extremely

If you really want to explore your sexuality as a man and you value it highly, fucking go and get the sexual experiences you want. Don't just sit back and wait for it to happen.

Quote

Many people live out their entire lives without ever having had sex. So I don't know why you would compare it to food and drink. Yes, it's a biological need indeed, but I never saw anyone going insane without it, I guess most people do just fine, including men. And there's always the hooker option. I guess most men just do fine with porn always available. Tbh, whatever you're describing looks akin to a Sex addict than a normal guy. I have male friends (not to mention boyfriends) and a few of them don't have a girlfriend yet and I can tell you they aren't dying. They are focused on their careers much more than their romantic lives. Sex can wait. 

@Tyler Robinson It's a rung above food and drink, but it is still very very much a need rather than a want.

Most guys aren't that open about their sex drive, especially with women. But you can see how fucked up the guys who reach their mid 30s without ever having sex are. Many incels (lots even younger than mid 30s) are seriously considering suicide on a daily basis. If that doesn't convey how much of a need it is, I don't really know what would.

Hookers and porn are like bandaids. The desire for sex is rooted in men's ability to generate attraction and be a valuable man.

Failing at this essentially feels like the world telling that you're an awful and useless man. And this cemented deeply into our biology from billions of years of evolution. Your advice is essentially 'stop thinking that and just love yourself' which is, I guess, truthful, but it isn't really helpful advice for guys. It's like saying "just be happy" to someone with depression, which is why it rubbed so many guys here the wrong way.

Yea, ultimately, if you want to actualize, overcoming the strong desire for sex is good. But it's a transcend and include kinda situation. You gotta satisfy some of your deeper sexual desire first and then learn to overcome it. If you just try to 'stop caring about sex' when actually you care deeply about sex, then that's just sexual repression.

It's easy to give the 'stop caring about sex' advice when you are already have fairly abundant access to sex, or when you don't desire it that strongly.

Edited August 11, 2022 by something_else

[Tyler Robinson]

15 minutes ago, something_else said:

Yea, ultimately, if you want to actualize, overcoming the strong desire for sex is good.

I wouldn't go as far as telling someone to overcome the desire for sex. My point was limited only to seeking validation which looks cruel to me. Isn't being alone better than being constantly rejected and tossed over? How long will a person waste their time chasing? Things feel better when they come effortlessly and naturally, of course I never mean to say a man should just sit around waiting for a woman to fall on his lap, but if you consider all the logistics and the effort that goes into it(not if you're a cool handsome hunk, I'm talking about unattractive struggling males), it's sometimes better to not fan the flames of fantasy and come back to reality, understand how dysfunctional the world is and not become a slave to the social validation game, only if we didn't constantly add more buzz to the idea that a man's self worth depended on the kind and the number of women he could get, then maybe a lot of men out there could rest a bit lazy and consequently less suicides too, it's a win win. 

 

[Tyler Robinson]

34 minutes ago, something_else said:

Your advice is essentially 'stop thinking that and just love yourself' which is, I guess, truthful, but it isn't really helpful advice for guys. It's like saying "just be happy" to someone with depression, which is why it rubbed so many guys here the wrong way.

Yea I get this part. I wasn't being superficial with my advice though, I really meant it in the most serious manner. It's always good to go out there, work hard and get good with dating, all that jazz. But you forgot that I was responding to the guy who made it appear as though his whole life depended on a woman Validating his desire for her and making him feel better. This sounds awfully weak, obsessive, and very depowering to me. It's like hinging your whole life on relationships. I don't think anyone serious with personal development will ever support this sort of a stance. It's worrisome because it means that if you don't get what you want with the opposite sex, you're essentially close to Giving up on your life, that's a defeatist mentality. 

[Devin]

16 hours ago, Someone here said:

I made a post about buying a sex doll and it get locked so I deleted it . So I have some explaining to do ..and I hope you guys can understand, not judge me and try to offer me some help. 

I don't know what to say, honestly.  I am fit and healthy, I consider myself good looking .I take care of myself, I have hobbies/interests, yet here I at 26 and it feels like every woman I ever meet in isn't interested in me in any shape or form.

However, my friends are all off getting married, getting engaged and so on, I feel like I'm really missing out on such a huge part of life that I just never got the chance to engage with. The fact that I every time I *put myself out there*, I end up feeling like utter shit because i suck at socializing with people. Especially strangers, especially girls, especially hot ones.  Every time i try to approach I get feeling of fear (I think that not approaching is the right descsion to make to stay in my comfort zone) I don't like to press myself on strangers.

i cant be anywhere near girls because anything i do is considered "creepy". every other guy is fine but im a "creep" just because the way i come off. ive never harassed anyone i just exist and that a problem. everyone subconsciously wants me to hang myself in the woods and not exist. I'm beginning to get paranoid about it .

To put it shortly,  bluntly and brutally honest..I just want pussy ..you feel me ? I want have hot sex with hot girls..how do I make that happen ? I have no fucking idea .these days I go out every weekend to malls and places where people hang out and I try to approach girls..and even guys (not for gay purposes, but just to make friends) but i always hesitate like a pussy ?. 

Any advice or clarity appreciated ?. 

Find a sport you're interested in, preferably coed in your area, join a coed sport group, just start with hi how are you to a cashier/server and build up your relational skills from there. You'll get there, I swear to you anyone can, you'll laugh looking back at this with joy for what you're gaining through this struggle

Edited August 11, 2022 by Devin

[Tyler Robinson]

10 minutes ago, KH2 said:

No, it's not.

It's ok. I don't think like you. I would cut the losses wherever I can. Time and money are more important to me than stupid chases. 

Call me greedy 

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Tyler Robinson