My Theoretical Obstacles

[Dino D]

I just don't get why am I not aware of the room, or of your body and feelings? So I am limited to the body??

I asked this qouestion before, but nothing that has logic to me, that keeps non duality as truth, wasn't given to me

 

2. Who am I? I am the will, the one who moves my hand (who decides to move it) who wants something, or the thinker,

I'm nothinhness = I don't know about that... That what you describe as nothingness is just a still mind, a down lieing will, a brain that is not focused, a attentinon that isn't anyway particular but is active... Doesn't disprove that that does not come from the bran/body, So I'm still the brain, or the councious thinker, the will that is acting trougt my body (and not trought yours), the personality, character and so on (the cou... yes all of that can change (hit my brain with a bullet, or drugs and so on) but it's still from the brain... I'don't know, I'm nothingness, or we are all one, or I'm not that I that i belive it's me, I can not be found... I think those are all delusions that come from an experience of a still mind that is awake, and and non focused attention that is in it's source or just all over the place but without indentification... Nothing of that proves non duality to me, it's just an experience... I'm stuck, hope to get ,,enligtemenet" (reading and meditating for 1-2 years)

 

When I meditate, and search for the I, I can get still, almost no houghts, there is no particular I to find, I know I'm not the body, and all senzations, no one thought... But the perciver, the thinker, or the will that moves my hand, or that wants to go someware, hm hm, who is aware of that? that's somehow a stupid question that can get you an deluded experience of no/sef (I had a glimpse), but is it the truth? Imagine a knife that searches for it self, it isnt the top, it isnt the handle, it isnt the blade, so it does not exist-stupid?   I'm nothing particural, I'm the unity of the whole body mind structure... I'm not ultimate awareness, I'm not you, and when I'm in deep sleep there isnt any awarenes-point, but my body is there and other people see me...

[Leo Gura]

Now notice, that's all thought.

You actually believe you're a thought. Which is the silly part of your logic.

A knife does not know its a knife. A knife does not exist to itself.

You say you are the perceiver, and yet when you look, no perceiver is ever found. Which means, you believe in a fairytale.

If I told you I had a dog, and you said, "Okay, show him to me." And I responded, "Oh, I've never seen him. But I love him very much. He's in the house somewhere. After all, there's no way he could be nothing. That's silly. Can you imagine a Nothing-dog? Hahaha... how silly!"

You'd rightly call me crazy.

[PureExp]

So much confusion going on here but its ok. I was 100x more confused, but I refused to accept beliefs. Do not believe, just know !

25 minutes ago, Dino D said:

I think those are all delusions that come from an experience of a still mind that is awake, and and non focused attention that is in it's source or just all over the place but without indentification... Nothing of that proves non duality to me, it's just an experience...

Your thoughts are beliefs. E.g. "mind that is awake". What is mind? WTH is an awake mind? Who or what experiences a mind (or awake or asleep mind)?

But this is a good start. "Just an experience", yes exactly. Now, the question is - what is having those experiences? Is there "something" making them? or are there only experiences?

If there are only experiences, then there is nothing else except experiences. Is there? Show me a thing that is "not-experience".

If you can't show me that, then the obvious conclusion is - there is only one thing, not two, not many. That one "thing" is not a thing. Its a field of experiences, a screen on which every experience appears. It is that in which things appear. You can call it as "I" or consciousness or Brahman or existence, doesn't matter, its one. The divisions are purely mental. Mind itself is an experience (a collection of non-sensory perceptions/objects) Mind's job is to divide, and when you see how mind is doing that, you reach oneness.

I can go on and on, but this is a forum, people don't like to read long posts , you will need to see it yourself. No one can prove it just by typing.

Lastly -

37 minutes ago, Dino D said:

when I'm in deep sleep there isnt any awarenes-point, but my body is there and other people see me...

Yet another belief. People see your body, not your awareness. They cannot see it, no one can, no instrument can. Like a fool, people conclude that since the body is inactive, the awareness is "absent". They do not want proof, they do not want to think, thinking is painful, believing is easy, and if everyone believes it , it must be "the truth".

Can you tell me when have you experienced an absence of awareness? And how did you perceive that absence, if you were "unconscious"? Sure, you can ask people, but ask them if they saw your body, mind, or consciousness. If many intelligent people testify that they "saw" your consciousness as absent, you will get a Nobel prize. This will be a big discovery indeed.

If you are not prepared to accept your own direct experiences and keep depending on people or books, the non-dual path is not for you. The essence of non-duality is ability to see the truth yourself. Its an exact science, you need to define words exactly, and talk and think logically.

All the best

[Dino D]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Now notice, that's all thought.

You actually believe you're a thought. Which is the silly part of your logic.

A knife does not know its a knife. A knife does not exist to itself.

You say you are the perceiver, and yet when you look, no perceiver is ever found. Which means, you believe in a fairytale.

If I told you I had a dog, and you said, "Okay, show him to me." And I responded, "Oh, I've never seen him. But I love him very much. He's in the house somewhere. After all, there's no way he could be nothing. That's silly. Can you imagine a Nothing-dog? Hahaha... how silly!"

You'd rightly call me crazy.

Thx. It's more like that: I come to you and say I have a dog... and I show him to you, and you say I don't see a dog, I ask how? I point at him, then you say a see a dogs leg, not a dog, or a dogs hair, not a dog, not evan a hair, i just see a brown point (a smal part of the brown hair) wait, it's not a bronw point, it's a molekule, a atom, a proton, a subatomic particle, and that particle is a hologram or it's actually nothing (whatever) so at the end you say I don't see a dog, there is no dog, there is nothingness... I say yes, i know what you mean but your not correct, the dog is not the hair, the atom, the leg, the head, the dogs mind, you have to look the whole and that's a dog... (call me crazy if there really is not a dog) I belive you Leo, I belive also Quantum mechanics... I belive and love non duality, bud do I understand it-No, i watched all your videos and on your meditation I hade that glimpse experience from your meditation, I can still my mind, ,,go deep" relax, but that's it nothing special... anyway that's the DOG story from my point of view... THX for answering  (my englis isn't the best) 

[Dino D]

32 minutes ago, PureExp said:

So much confusion going on here but its ok. I was 100x more confused, but I refused to accept beliefs. Do not believe, just know !

Your thoughts are beliefs. E.g. "mind that is awake". What is mind? WTH is an awake mind? Who or what experiences a mind (or awake or asleep mind)?

But this is a good start. "Just an experience", yes exactly. Now, the question is - what is having those experiences? Is there "something" making them? or are there only experiences?

If there are only experiences, then there is nothing else except experiences. Is there? Show me a thing that is "not-experience".

If you can't show me that, then the obvious conclusion is - there is only one thing, not two, not many. That one "thing" is not a thing. Its a field of experiences, a screen on which every experience appears. It is that in which things appear. You can call it as "I" or consciousness or Brahman or existence, doesn't matter, its one. The divisions are purely mental. Mind itself is an experience (a collection of non-sensory perceptions/objects) Mind's job is to divide, and when you see how mind is doing that, you reach oneness.

I can go on and on, but this is a forum, people don't like to read long posts , you will need to see it yourself. No one can prove it just by typing.

Lastly -

Yet another belief. People see your body, not your awareness. They cannot see it, no one can, no instrument can. Like a fool, people conclude that since the body is inactive, the awareness is "absent". They do not want proof, they do not want to think, thinking is painful, believing is easy, and if everyone believes it , it must be "the truth".

Can you tell me when have you experienced an absence of awareness? And how did you perceive that absence, if you were "unconscious"? Sure, you can ask people, but ask them if they saw your body, mind, or consciousness. If many intelligent people testify that they "saw" your consciousness as absent, you will get a Nobel prize. This will be a big discovery indeed.

If you are not prepared to accept your own direct experiences and keep depending on people or books, the non-dual path is not for you. The essence of non-duality is ability to see the truth yourself. Its an exact science, you need to define words exactly, and talk and think logically.

All the best

belive me, I could give almost the same answer as you did to my self, I know the theory, but still ... the practical part is missing, but the forum is still helping for the confusions  I quote leos answer too ... thx to both of you, i continue the journy (meditation (one year), wim hof metod (4rth week now), looking 4 some shrooms this year, and evolving evan if nothing is evolving, or real because I'm not that hehe

[Barna]

You ask the question: "Who am I?" But why are you so sure that you even exist?  

There is only the experience of a body, experiencing thoughts, experiencing will, experiencing pain, experiencing joy, so on. There is only experiencing. Why are you so sure that there must exist an experiencer?  

The essence of the experiencer isn't just experiencing as well?  

[Dino D]

5 minutes ago, Barna said:

You ask the question: "Who am I?" But why are you so sure that you even exist?  

There is only the experience of a body, experiencing thoughts, experiencing will, experiencing pain, experiencing joy, so on. There is only experiencing. Why are you so sure that there must exist an experiencer?  

The essence of the experiencer isn't just experiencing as well?  

So there is no I at all, hmm, i often imagined awareness as empty something that is experiencing everyhing else,,, like an empty I-still something ... but what if there is no awareness at all, no empty experiencer, it's just experience, yes there is an awareness to that, or a nothingness but not as seperate awareness, but it's litlery nothing, so I am nothing, the experiencer does not exist, there is only experience and nothing else, that nothing else is the real me... OR, is it the other way (my point of view) ...

If I denie what is, what is left is nothing, then I delude my self that I'm nothing and not me-body/mind... HMM HMM (the knife that does not belive that is a knife, it can not find it self, so it does not exist) but if the knife would accept it self as a knife, and acnowledge that there is nothing to search just to be what you are, a knife, a human... I'm human that searches for nothing to be nothing, and when i get to the point where I belive or feel that i can not find anything then i belive to that, that I'm that nothingness-what does not exist at all (the experiencer does not exist), but a human does as whatever we are ...

Maybe I'm the experience it self, that denies it self so that I apeare as nothing like there is no I at all... I still belive that I'm the unity of all body/mind experience wich core is the counciusness that operates the body and thoghts, wich thinks and has will...... I'm fucked up!!!  

[Barna]

"In ignorance, I am something;
in understanding, I am nothing;
in love, I am everything."
~ Rupert Spira

[Leo Gura]

@Dino D You've never seen the dog (because it isn't there). The problem is you keep telling yourself, "I've seen the dog."

How do you know you're not a coffee table?

Think about this issue of identity real hard. What determines identity?

[Principium Nexus]

Stop identifying! Thinking is the duality.

[Nahm]

@Dino D Theory is description of reality, experience is reality.

If you want to go deeper, then you want less resistance.

All thought is resistance because without resistance there is no experience.