The description of heaven in different religions

[Raptorsin7]

9 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

at least in christianity i can drink grape juice ? 

Is that in Lithuania? A restaurant or something?

[Salvijus]

@Raptorsin7 it's from heaven ? 

[SOUL]

@Salvijus  The explanation of Buddhism you use to suggest that only if you believe as Buddhists do and do as they do can you know they are right and others don't have the authority to question them being right is pretty much how Christianity and many other religions suggest theirs is.

This is in the imagination and that one believes is the truth which doesn't mean it is a universal truth for all.

[Salvijus]

@SOUL Christians say if u don't believe me you'll go to hell. Buddhism says, there is a stage of development where all doubts in dharma wanish. Until that point u need little bit of faith bc you're not smart enough to see the truth of it yet. That's very different then christianity imo.

I think it's pretty fair also.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Salvijus

[Raptorsin7]

1 minute ago, Salvijus said:

@SOUL Christians say if u don't believe me you'll go to hell. Buddhism says, there is a stage of development where all doubts in dharma wanish. Until that point u need little bit of faith bc you're not smart enough to see the truth of it.

I think it's pretty fair statement.

People can spend their whole life on the Buddhist path just waiting for that time where their doubt will be gone. Victims of the Dharma.

I think according to Jesus you are already in hell, and if you follow him then you can get out.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Raptorsin7

[Salvijus]

@Raptorsin7 you're trying so bad to put christianity above buddhism lol. In the end u don't know. And i don't know. Better not to take sides. Just be open, grow and enjoy both perspectives until u become wise enough to see that they are both equally valid. (I assume that's what happens when u become really concious, debatable)

Edited August 3, 2022 by Salvijus

[Raptorsin7]

@Salvijus Yeah, i am not saying I know for sure. But this is my instinct.

Maybe i'm wrong, but my instinct and intuition is telling me this for a reason.

@TJ Reeves once said that Christianity is true Buddhism. 

[SOUL]

@Salvijus The description of the 'reward-punishment' and I only use those words as a reference not as a 'truth' are different in different religions but the psychological mechanism is the same.

Not 'smart enough to see the truth'? That's the same demeaning attitude dogmatic zealots of many religions use... I suspect those are just your words and not Buddhist ways of referring to it but it doesn't change the point.

It's only in the imagination that one trusts it is true, that one believes it to be the truth. No hand waving away 'belief' either, that's exactly what it is, one trusts the perception one has in awareness, in the imagination that it is 'true'.

[Salvijus]

7 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@TJ Reeves once said that Christianity is true Buddhism. 

He forgot to mention that it's just his opinion and he doesn't fully understand neither budhhism nor christianity

Edited August 3, 2022 by Salvijus

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Salvijus said:

He forgot to mention that it's just his opinion and he doesn't really understand neither budhhism nor christianity

Everything is everyone's opinion.

You recommending me ACIM and Sadhguru was just an opinion and you don't really understand, but yet it was valuable.

Read his profile, whatever you think of him you can't deny he's accomplished more than 99% of people on this forum.

[Salvijus]

@SOUL i didn't get any of that. 

"not smart enough to recognize the wisdom" is just my sloppy framing of what was really sayed. 

[Salvijus]

@Raptorsin7 yea opinions are sometimes very close to being true and sometimes super far away from being true. We don't know how close tj revees's opinion was to truth but my personal opinion is very different then his.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Salvijus

[SOUL]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

@SOUL i didn't get any of that. 

"not smart enough to recognize the wisdom" is just my sloppy framing of what was really sayed. 

Well, your sloppy framing is continuing to slide...first it was "not smart enough to see the truth of it" and then it becomes "not smart enough to recognize the wisdom"...both seem a bit self righteous about ones own perception.

 

Again, to stay on the point I'm making it's just something that is in the imagination of the perceiver, there is no universal truth to it, it's a perception of personal truth.

[Loba]

I've been thinking a lot about heaven.  I've had a few experiences that give me some idea of what I am to expect on the other side.  I don't know if it is the same for everyone.  I plan to commit suicide after my parents and my dog pass away.  I'll use the money from the house for a few years of enjoyment, just staying in a hotel, smoking weed and coasting for a while before going out on heart and or pain medications and alcohol.  I've done my research, mental illness is treated as a terminal illness and as long as I am a good girl and can work on my attitude in this life then I'll hopefully be in a good spot for the next world...

What I think happens is that we are grown in groups of souls.  Bubbles floating around in a soup of consciousness, but I have no idea what that will look like or how it will be experienced from the other side.  I just know that there is a group there and that we are all connected to one another.  I don't know who I have met in this life that is a part of them or if they are all on the other side.  I have also experienced a partner, when I was at my sickest he showed himself through intuition and told me that we have been playing a kind of game, like hide and seek, and to follow the pieces through the things that I love in life, that when the time comes he will catch me, like in a net of sorts and that my soul won't dissolve into nothingness.  I don't know anything about him other than that this is a life where I am supposed to "feel" the absence of him, so that I know how it will feel when he is there, so that I will have a full appreciation.  I think this life was meant to be one of lack and loss so that I know what I want, what I need and so that I am oriented in the right way when the time comes.  I was born very feminine - I think this is because my partner will be very masculine and that it will even itself out.

I think that I am supposed to wait until I die, and that I shouldn't make any friends or find any partners while I am alive or I will have more karmic ties to the wrong people.  When I think about my heaven, I think about him.  I think about not having the weight of human life to contend with, I think about being able to be young forever - I was a very beautiful young woman and so I will be in death - I think about snuggling up close and not having any walls or obstructions in the way preventing me from being able to show my love in the way that I was supposed to.  I think about nuzzling my partner's cheek with my nose and nibbling on his earlobe like a bunny does on fresh grass.  I think about how love and sex will feel like being perpetually high on MDMA.  I feel that the afterlife will be enjoyable in the ways that we wish we could have here on earth, that lack and longing are just there to show us what we actually want for our own private little heavens.  Mine will be the perfect INFP heaven, full of romance with my partner, learning about different things and getting to play in various landscapes.  We will take turns being the ones to make new worlds to explore and play in and maybe sometimes we will come back down to earth as spirits to watch over humanity and marvel in the mysteries of nature.

My heaven, with my family - my true family and my partner, my true partner.  I just have another 15 years to wait.  It's going to be a rough, lonely 15 years, but I'm a perfectionist and I only want to bring my best self to the table and that best self exists as a soul and not a human being.  I don't believe in human love, I think the best stuff comes later.

Heaven will be a great place.  We will all be free and healed and happy.  I can't wait to be Home, with someone who loves me, someone that I can love for eternity, without arguments or things getting stale.  It will be a place of sweetness and goodness and no evil will ever touch us ever again.

So, I guess I believe in more of the Muslim side of things, but more romantically.  I don't think that everyone has someone waiting for them on the other side, I just know that I must be one of them because I need it so much and God is ideal and cares about its creations and wants to give us what our hearts crave.  I think this need, that I have always followed since I was a little girl, was put in my soul's blueprint because I am so polarized as a feminine being, that to become one with another who is very masculine, that this has a balancing property to it.  I am willing to fulfil my responsibilities to my pets and to my family, but once they are gone, then I am coming home.

I was made to be limited, sad, lonely, so that when I come back I will know and understand what it truly means to be limitless, happy and free.

 

[Salvijus]

7 hours ago, SOUL said:

Again, to stay on the point I'm making it's just something that is in the imagination of the perceiver, there is no universal truth to it, it's a perception of personal truth.

 

Aaa, okey. Now i got what u were trying to say.

But this is also just your opinion. My opinion is different. I think there are some things that are universally true to everyone. Like everyone seeks freedom. I think that's a universal statement applicable to everyone. Some are concious of this fact and some are not.

And that it takes a certain maturity and wisdom to recognize the authenticity of buddha's teaching. I think that's a fair statement too that could be universally true. It is definitely hard to see for a beginner why dissolution is the most liberating thing. I never would've understood it few years ago. Was too dumb.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

@Loba In acim it is sayed the qualification for entering heaven is to be able to maintain holy instant throughout the day. The presence of love that Jesus can teach u, if u can maintain that 24/7. U become eligible for heaven. But probably by the time u reach that place, all your thoughts about suicide will be long gone, as it should ? 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Salvijus

[SOUL]

@Salvijus  My well being isn't limited by opinion, I'm not talking about opinion, it's the experience of well being not the story about story. Which is what opinion is about, something like 'freedom' or understanding someone's teaching or the social dynamics of it.

All of those things can become a distraction from well being and are replaced by the finite feelings of self justification through 'truth'. Genuine liberation transcends the conditional including the narratives we tell ourselves are true.

So the enjoyment someone may get from the different expressions of descriptions and understandings of mystical and spiritual experience can be fruit of the unconditional well being that transcends the story and is not dependent upon having the 'true' story.

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by SOUL

[Salvijus]

@SOUL i have no idea what that has to do with anything ? sorry i have a hard time understanding u.

But i don't think what u sayed disproves the statement: "to be able to see the truth of buddha's teachings, it takes a certain maturity in conciousness" i think it's a fair statement but u seem to dislike it and then write smth about it that i don't understand ? my bad.

[SOUL]

@Salvijus  I said no such thing, I'm not sure anymore that we're talking about the same thing.

Be well

Peace

[Salvijus]

@SOUL tcare