The world outside your body

[Questioner]

To me it seems obvious there is a world outside my body. I can literally see it and interact with it. Yet some people claim there is no external world. This seems to be falsified by direct experience. Where am I going wrong here?

[Inliytened1]

16 hours ago, Questioner said:

To me it seems obvious there is a world outside my body. I can literally see it and interact with it. Yet some people claim there is no external world. This seems to be falsified by direct experience. Where am I going wrong here?

There can be nothing independent of Consciousness.  Consciousness is not an emergent property of the external world.   The external world is an emergent property of Consciousness.  It is held within Consciousness.   Don't believe me - validate this in your direct experience .

[amanen]

It would be more accurate to say there is no world outside your mind, not your body. The body and the external world are inside your consciousness.

[Matthew85]

17 minutes ago, amanen said:

It would be more accurate to say there is no world outside your mind, not your body. The body and the external world are inside your consciousness.

@amanen What do you feel is best evidence we have of our waking reality being only our consciousness? If this is the truth, then if you change your consciousness the world should change. 

[Questioner]

1 hour ago, amanen said:

It would be more accurate to say there is no world outside your mind, not your body. The body and the external world are inside your consciousness.

But I don't live/exist in your mind. So I am not just in your mind.

[Someone here]

52 minutes ago, Questioner said:

But I don't live/exist in your mind. So I am not just in your mind.

The entire universe exists inside your consciousness. Where else could it be ?

Edited August 3, 2022 by Someone here

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, Matthew85 said:

@amanen What do you feel is best evidence we have of our waking reality being only our consciousness? If this is the truth, then if you change your consciousness the world should change. 

Drunkenness is a state of consciousness, don't you notice the world changes if you get drunk? If you take a small non-breakthrough dose of a psychedelic the world changes again, if you take a breakthrough dose the world changes again. Happiness is a state change, your perspective is different when your happy. When you are sad and depressed again it changes. There are infinite examples.

[Matthew85]

5 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Drunkenness is a state of consciousness, don't you notice the world changes if you get drunk? If you take a small non-breakthrough dose of a psychedelic the world changes again, if you take a breakthrough dose the world changes again

@Razard86 Yes, but only for me, not other people or the consensus reality. That is what I was referring to. If waking reality is only my personal mind then if I awaken or change my consciousness it should theoretically be able to alter the entire world, not just myself. 

[Matthew85]

1 hour ago, JoeVolcano said:

Just think back to all the people and things and events in your youth. And now think how different all that was compared to now. That's not just the world changing independently of you, it's your dream changing along with you.

@JoeVolcano I will have to reflect on this. Some elements of my reality have changed and others are exactly the same.

I'm not sure why it's easier for me to believe that sleeping dreams are all my mind, but I'm hesitant to believe the same for this waking dream. Maybe it's because I can manipulate my nightly lucid dreams and waking reality is so consistent and stable and difficult to change. Do you see any distinctions between the two? Or do you feel they are both created by your mind but with different rule sets?

[Matthew85]

@JoeVolcano So is your perspective that waking reality is a shared consensus reality with billions of other conscious finite minds? 

 

[Matthew85]

43 minutes ago, JoeVolcano said:

There is no finite mind, so its perspective doth hold no water.

@JoeVolcano I appreciate you sharing your perspective. If there is no finite mind what did you mean when you said "Sure the distinction is that night-time dreams are just thoughts coming out of your ostensible finite mind." 

46 minutes ago, JoeVolcano said:

I have no idea who I'm talking to. Except one way or another it can really only be me.

No, it's only me.