Anatta (Non-self) vs Atman (Self)

[Topspin715]

How do these two irreconcilable concepts exist at the base of both Buddhist and Hindu thought respectively?  What is so great abt the concept of the non-self?  Is it the same as unitive consciousness?

 

Regardless of whatever cosmic realization you have where you feel unified with everything.  I am and presumably will always have a localized sensory experience of qualia nested in my bodymind.  Everything is connected and causally dependent on one another but that seems like just a perspective and has nothing to do with living a good life or freeing yourself from suffering IMO.

[amanen]

Everything is selfless and empty, and at the same time there is a Self which is absolutely everything in existence.

The reason you can have awakenings into both facets is because both are true and are only seemingly irreconciable at a casual glance, but they are not actually contradictory. 

[Salvijus]

They are the same thing actually. But it's hard to explain how.

Who makes the realization that existence is void of self? Pure awareness/The Real Self is making that insight that there is no self anywhere.

One who realizes no self automatically becomes aware of undiscribable, immeasurable Nothingness, aka the Real Self.

And one who becomes aware of the Real Self, nothingness, void. Automatically realizes that there is no tangable self in existence. Everything is just passing and going away in nothingness.

They are the two sides of the same realization.

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

 The better translation for no-self would be. "The self IS nowhere" this would be the most accurate describtion of enlightenment imo. It implies that the self exists and doesn't exist at the same time. Which is how it truly is.

 

Edit.

The self is nowhere and also everywhere.

The source of self is nowhere, the manifestaion of self is everywhere. 

The source of self is formlessness, the manifestaion of self is form.

Formlessness can exist without the form, form cannot exist without formlessness.

Formlessness is king.

(I should put this on my signature)

Edited August 1, 2022 by Salvijus

[Oppositionless]

breathing.

in,    out.

in,      out

in,         out

[BipolarGrowth]

3 hours ago, Salvijus said:

They are the same thing actually. But it's hard to explain how.

Who makes the realization that existence is void of self? Pure awareness/The Real Self is making that insight that there is no self anywhere.

One who realizes no self automatically becomes aware of undiscribable, immeasurable Nothingness, aka the Real Self.

And one who becomes aware of the Real Self, nothingness, void. Automatically realizes that there is no tangable self in existence. Everything is just passing and going away in nothingness.

They are the two sides of the same realization.

 

This describes it fairly well. They are essentially different flavors of a similar insight. 

[RMQualtrough]

The backdrop never goes anywhere but that contains no element of selfness at all... The self entity is very much like a TV show, scenes change all the time. The scenes are like the self. And only the memory and ego provide a continuous string from one scene to the next...

When the string is cut there isn't any self that remains in tact as the scenes change. You are still present, but you see that the changing scenes are more like a mask on top of what you really are.

Srs.

[VeganAwake]

7 hours ago, Topspin715 said:

How do these two irreconcilable concepts exist at the base of both Buddhist and Hindu thought respectively?  What is so great abt the concept of the non-self?  Is it the same as unitive consciousness?

 

Regardless of whatever cosmic realization you have where you feel unified with everything.  I am and presumably will always have a localized sensory experience of qualia nested in my bodymind.  Everything is connected and causally dependent on one another but that seems like just a perspective and has nothing to do with living a good life or freeing yourself from suffering IMO.

When it's recognized that this sense of self within the bodymind is an illusion,  the contracted energy within that bodymind can seem to relax and expand back into everything/infinity.(no-self)  

This feels very threatening for the sense of self, and it triggers the ultimate defense mechanism or ego trip by taking on the new identity of being everything..... this is often referred to as spiritual ego or super ego. 

This is where most diehard truth seekers seem to land.

❤ 

 

[Topspin715]

How does this realization differ from what most people consider to be enlightenment?  Is it the same thing?

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Topspin715 said:

How does this realization differ from what most people consider to be enlightenment? 

Well what's being said is there aren't other people in which could have considerations on what enlightenment is or isn't...... those would just be different concepts or beliefs within the dream story of being a separate individual.

Is it the same thing?

Yes it's identical but seeming to be different.

 

[Kuba Powiertowski]

 

[Carl-Richard]

Different words, similar concept, just like nirvana vs. moksha.