Authenticity and pickup.

[The_Searcher]

Hey, I'm pickup newbie. I read up some topics about how conscious is pickup. And I just got confused mainly about the balance of being authentic and being a player. I see some guys just don't like pickup because it's shallow, manipulative, survival based game, that you push some emotional buttons on women in order to get sex. And me myself for the large period of my life I hated that you kind of put a player mask in order to get girls. I imagined that you supposed to have a high energy, be super masculine, extremely social, extroverted, super confident etc. Kind of red-pill type of guy. So because I hated that so much I was discouraged to even do pickup. Probably a lot of conscious guys struggle with that too, or I assume so. Well I found a channel on YouTube accidentally after watching Leo's "get laid" series called "Natural Lifestyles" which ignited some hope that pickup doesn't have to be shallow red-pill thing. I'll talk about it in a bit.

As I said what concerns me is the issue about being authentic vs being a player. I know authenticity is kind of a slippery slope since you are product of your environment and in a sense any change in your life is inauthentic. Learning math is inauthentic, not shitting in a middle of the street is inauthentic. But I've would like to be as much as myself as possible in pickup. Sure I will have to learn principles of attraction and all that. I just don't want to be what I'm not, that means wear a player's mask and be dishonest towards a girl. Fake until you make it type of scenario where I'm not me but some player type dude. What if I attract a girl by being super confident, extroverted, high energy and then she sees the true me, the introverted, calm guy? I would be a bit disappointed since the high energy me was just a facade. Where is that balance point?

 

Also I found in this forum how Leo said making a poem for a girl is creepy. I see how it can be creepy, but is it really? Or is delivery and confidence that makes it creepy or not? Maybe not right kind of girl? I think this is good example of authenticity vs player dynamic. I remembered that I with the guys scerenaded girls for fun and girls liked it. Now I can see how easily that could became creepy.

 

What "natural lifestyles" brought to the table is you don't have to be high energy, extroverted, super masculine etc. It's really enough to know the rules of the game and learn principles of attraction. Just like we have society's rules but we do have wiggle room to be authentic. At least what I understood watching some of their videos. They are more go with the flow adapts to the situation. Like for example they bring different parts of themselves based on a girl, if she's shy they don't be high energy, over the top ones. I see players that they must be the high energy. 

The problem may be that I have a distorted image that players must be these manipulative, overconfident, masculine, high energy etc. guys. Or other blind spot and that's why I'm here. If you want to see how wrong you are just post it on internet haha. I'm interested to hear how you balance authenticity and pickup. Any insights?

[Federico del pueblo]

@The_Searcher Yeah this whole endeavour can seem confusing.

Just follow the natural lifestyles for some time and apply their advice. It's hard to say where exactly the balance point between player and authenticity is, you have to find it out yourself by exposing yourself to more girls.

Anyway, one thing is certain. You probably will have to overcome a lot of insecurities and consequently become more confident in the process.

Whether you follow pick up advice or not. Women will teach you that being very hesitant and hiding your sexual/romantic interest does almost never get rewarded. But they will also teach you that if you're too direct and forward and uncalibrated with your sexual intent, then this also doesn't work. It takes experience to know what you can do and what not.

And let's be honest, you're not being authentic when you don't communicate your interest to a girl. You're rather being split, you'd like to pursue the girl but not "get caught" trying to pursue the girl, out of fear of embarrassment or fear of looking creepy etc.

But there's no way around changing certain aspects of your behaviours and beliefs.

When you're being "authentic" you're being the program that resulted from the 20, 30 or 40 years of social conditioning and experiences. This is ok, but some aspects of that program simply get in the way of being successful with women and you have to identify them and change them (permanently, not like wearing a mask).

Some parts of that program might actually include inauthenticity because you're unwilling to express yourself truthfully because you fear being judged etc (you're authentically being inauthentic in that case ?).

Forget the idea that you have to be a loud, super dominant, alpha, boss gorilla.

That's just not true as long as what you're doing is still in alignment with the principles of attraction.

Like you can't chase a girl's validation and try very hard to make her like you etc.

You need to have a more abundant mindset (there are many girls).

So just apply the advice of teachers that resonate with you, make a serious commitment to take action and see where everything goes.

[Hugo Oliveira]

TNL offers good content, I made a live workshop with them. It can be good for people who are still going out of the "manipulative bubble". You can study their content, but take care and keep questioning. 

I don't think authenticity is an easy subject. But it is up to you how deep you want to go into this rabbit hole. 

The best content I found was:

-Zam Perion (his book) 
-David Tian
- Brian (Fearless man) 

You can listen to those guys. But again: don't get lost in theory! Go with what better resonates with you and keep growing. 
 

[something_else]

It's a balancing act. Pushing yourself to do difficult things is not inauthentic. In fact, it's how you learn to be truly authentic.

Part of the reason many guys suck with girls is that they're too scared to be authentic. "It's not really who I am" is often your mind's way of convincing you to avoid doing things you fear.

The goal of pickup is really just to face your social fears. You can boil it down to: 

• Go out to busy places with lots of girls
• Talk to lots of the girls there
• Push yourself to lead and express yourself authentically
• Either get rejected and move on, or build up some attraction
• Repeat

You don't really need to look up lots of pickup theory or advice. You learn by experience.

Although some of the general guidelines pickup theory gives you are pretty good at getting you to avoid making really silly mistakes with girls, like being needy, writing poems for girls you barely know, or hanging around orbiting girls who are clearly not interested in you etc.

8 hours ago, The_Searcher said:

The problem may be that I have a distorted image that players must be these manipulative, overconfident, masculine, high energy etc. guys.

If you go out to clubs or bars, you'll see this isn't true pretty quickly. I often see fairly average looking guys going home with pretty attractive girls. They don't seem hyper masculine or manipulative. Most of the time they're just magnetically authentic, fun to be around and not creepy.

[Raze]

Read models by Mark Manson

[AuroraDream]

I learned that I am what I am. being authentic is just being what i already am, as i am, now in the present moment.

which means I attract what I naturally attract. I learned to be with that and accept it. 

thats the hard part for people to grasp. authentic means just being you as you are now, and not changing and acting different to get results, to then become someone else. Someone "better". That's why there is always this awkward dissonance when these pickup gurus use spiritual principles in their obvious hedonistic pursuit of pussy. 

But still there's nothing wrong with wanting to be better and want to attract more attractive people if that's what you want to do, it just doesn't relate much to being authentic. We naturally grow, and can take action to grow, and can be all good, then we are authentic to that new person and that's great, cause that will be the new present moment. Being authentic is just being authentic now, to the present moment, with how you are, what you're feeling right now etc. I just want to point out that difference. 

[Dean Raymond]

Everyone's journey is different. For some guys who are getting absolutely no women at all, then learning aspects of pick-up theory and becoming more attractive to women is essential if they want to ever meet someone.

You definitely don't need to be extremely extroverted to do better with women, you just need to believe in yourself and learn the basic technical aspects of "game". Learning how to come across better socially and make yourself more attractive is not manipulative.

This all depends on what your motives are and where your moral compass points. The short answer here is that the answers lie in the field. The skill here is sharpening who you are, rather than adding to the facade. This will however require you to totally strip away any previous false persona that you may have been using to attract women. Women recognise the frequency, energy and humour behind a man's communication. The topics of conversation and whether or not you are an extrovert are irrelevant.

Only you know if you're saying things for a reaction, or if you are expressing yourself authentically and trying to actually get to know the girl as a human being rather than trying to use her as a source of validation via approval/sex.