The Self-Bias of Farmers

[Scholar]

14 minutes ago, zurew said:

Okay, understood.

Yeah i understand. But imo, the responsibility is on the conscious people to change these stuff, especially because people who are not conscious of their self bias, and their selfishness, won't change on their own, unless we elevate their level of consciousness radically (and that is not realistic if we are talking about a short period of time). So practically speaking, people who are conscious, intelligent and smart enough and have enough resources should do the heavywork, because others won't do shit and we shouldn't even expect from them to do anything (unless we can make a systemic solution where we can incentivise them to do more conscious things).

I think its not even worth talking about "these people are so biased" or that "these people are not conscious enough" because that won't really change the situtation, but i understand that this thread wasn't about speaking about the solutions , but pointing out how radical self bias works.

The thing is, people who are conscious already do the work. There are just not many people who are conscious enough, this is why we have to understand self bias like this, to increase our own consciousness and find all the self bias within ourselves.

[Carl-Richard]

4 minutes ago, zurew said:

I think its not even worth talking about "these people are so biased" or that "these people are not conscious enough" because that won't really change the situtation, but i understand that this thread wasn't about speaking about the solutions , but pointing out how radical self bias works.

The topic is also an example of self-bias. "Look how self-biased people's worldviews are. Let me try to sell you my worldview."

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

The topic is also an example of self-bias. "Look how self-biased people's worldviews are. Let me try to sell you my worldview."

Nice try, lol.

[Carl-Richard]

4 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Nice try, lol.

?

[zurew]

2 hours ago, Scholar said:

The thing is, people who are conscious already do the work. There are just not many people who are conscious enough, this is why we have to understand self bias like this, to increase our own consciousness and find all the self bias within ourselves.

I don't disagree with this, i just don't think that pointing out other people's self bias is a practical way to approach this problem. I think this could be framed in a more friendlier way, so that people won't get triggered or hostile by sentences like "you are not conscious enough" or "you are too self biased".

 

The first thing you need to do is to frame the problem well. Most of these people don't even recognise, and don't agree that there is a problem here. That is the first step you need to do (This would be the "why should you care about this" part). ---> at this stage you need to ask first, in what world they want to live in and why, and then you need to show them, that your approach is better to achieve those goals.

The second step would be to point out, how the problem could be solved, and what are the potential consequences if the problem won't be solved.

 

That being said, i still think that the incentivisation method is more effective, compared to the "making the less conscious more conscious" method (especially, because we are talking about a relatively short time period). This doesn't mean, that we shouldn't even try, but change can't be achieved, if the method is not effective enough.

We can do both method at the same time, but we have to decide, where to spend most of our resources, time, attention and money.

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

The topic is also an example of self-bias. "Look how self-biased people's worldviews are. Let me try to sell you my worldview."

That is the meta lesson here.

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by zurew

[integral]

Rookie mistake all they have to do is figure out how to profit off of the nitrate emissions.  

[Stovo]

6 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

The topic is also an example of self-bias. "Look how self-biased people's worldviews are. Let me try to sell you my worldview."

Exactly. 

Common trap that stage green fall into is they believe everyone else is immoral relative to them so they don't see through their own self bias. 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Stovo

[mr_engineer]

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2022/7/15/23218969/sri-lanka-organic-fertilizer-pesticide-agriculture-farming 

From your favorite news-site, Vox. 

[Danioover9000]

   How dare you speak about animal slaughter, when you willingly engage in slaughtering nature, fruits and vegetables? You can speak about how we are destroying forest for agricultural purposes, but then be okey with mowing your lawn and cutting your hedge. Did you know that plants, when stressed and terrified, release odors to communicate thier fear? Yeah, that pleasant flora smell is their open wounds, and their plea for help!

   Humanity is truly the bullshiting animal, a virus of planets and worlds.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Danioover9000

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

You can speak about how we are destroying forest for agricultural purposes, but then be okey with mowing your lawn and cutting your hedge.

Bruh. 

 

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

Did you know that plants, when stressed and terrified, release odors to communicate thier fear? Yeah, that pleasant flora smell is their open wounds, and their plea for help!

The types of experiences that you personally associate with terror, fear and pleas for help will usually require a complex brain and are largely mammalian things.

[zurew]

2 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

You can speak about how we are destroying forest for agricultural purposes, but then be okey with mowing your lawn and cutting your hedge

I can't tell if you are trolling or not, do you think those two things are comparable?

2 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

Did you know that plants, when stressed and terrified, release odors to communicate thier fear? Yeah, that pleasant flora smell is their open wounds, and their plea for help!

There is no reason to correlate the releasing of odors with the communication of fear, on the other hand we know that if you have a functioning central nervous system (which most animals have), then you can feel pain. When it comes to moral questions like this, its mostly about the causing  of suffering.

[flyingguitarist]

11 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

   How dare you speak about animal slaughter, when you willingly engage in slaughtering nature, fruits and vegetables? You can speak about how we are destroying forest for agricultural purposes, but then be okey with mowing your lawn and cutting your hedge. 

@Danioover9000  ? good .Then eat from the forest.We are killing viruses  for our selfish purposes ,the spit which came from your mouth while talking might have caused suffering to lots of microscopic species

Poor mosquito chick wants food from us to lay eggs,yet we inhumanely kill them without even being thoughtful??

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by flyingguitarist

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard @zurew @flyingguitarist  I rest my casez and re-peat, that humanity is the bullshiting animal.

   From Fatty beefs, to white and dark meats, meats from the coral reefs to the seven seas, oceans deep, colourful greens, from berries to Veggies, smoothies, sea weeds, and anything in between, that meets our survival needs, that feeds the machine, is acceptable in this dream.

   Before you go, don't forget, lots of things had to die, to keep you alive and well tonight.

[zurew]

2 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

 I rest my casez and re-peat, that humanity is the bullshiting animal.

So the rationale here is that if someone can't protect literally everything the same way, then he is full of contradictions?

Scholar was never took a position where you need to hold everything to the same moral standards, so he doesn't need to protect that position. If you want to say that why would you value some things over others the answer is really easy: Because no one can live up to those standards.

2 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

Before you go, don't forget, lots of things had to die, to keep you alive and well tonight.

No one is denying these things. But just because we can't live up to those ultimate standards, where you need to be able to save everything and protect everything, that doesn't mean that its hypocritical to take a position where you want to protect animals. 

Right now you are attacking a position, that was taken by no one.

Edited August 4, 2022 by zurew

[sholomar]

On 7/31/2022 at 9:06 AM, Scholar said:

We're all one and our sovereignty ought to be respected... unless you're an animal, or insect, or really anything that isn't a human!

 

The good thing about lack of compassion is that it will bite you in the ass, as we can already see on a global scale. The very reason why people are starving is because of selective compassion.

I see compassion as only taking the species so far. You can't save everyone. If you tried, they'd breed like rabbits and you'd have a worse problem on your hands. I understand and respect the compassion of stage greens, but they lack an understanding of pavlonian conditioning it seems like to me. Teach people to fish, don't give them fish.

How do we solve the hunger problem that doesn't involve simply handing out food to people and giving them free shelter, free this free that? Free everything is not sustainable. It creates shortages and drives up the cost for the people who work 60 hours a week to build the infrastructure everyone takes for granted.  Forget about whether we force people to eat a vegan diet or not... how do we teach people to be self sufficient? Find that answer and you will do more to help a person than handing out free this, free that.

We did not evolve to be able to live a full life not having to contribute to society, and only taking. This applies to everyone.

Edited August 6, 2022 by sholomar

[Scholar]

35 minutes ago, sholomar said:

I see compassion as only taking the species so far. You can't save everyone. If you tried, they'd breed like rabbits and you'd have a worse problem on your hands. I understand and respect the compassion of stage greens, but they lack an understanding of pavlonian conditioning it seems like to me. Teach people to fish, don't give them fish.

How do we solve the hunger problem that doesn't involve simply handing out food to people and giving them free shelter, free this free that? Free everything is not sustainable. It creates shortages and drives up the cost for the people who work 60 hours a week to build the infrastructure everyone takes for granted.  Forget about whether we force people to eat a vegan diet or not... how do we teach people to be self sufficient? Find that answer and you will do more to help a person than handing out free this, free that.

We did not evolve to be able to live a full life not having to contribute to society, and only taking. This applies to everyone.

What does that have to do with anything discussed in this thread?