Turning 40 soon, I feel like my social skills are lacking

[StaffyDoggo]

Hi all, 

 

Sorry if it's a bit of text, it's just my way of writing, I always like to talk detailed, so to speak. 

So I'm turning 40 in August, I feel at least ten years younger though and I'm happy about that. But it IS an age that has me say "damn, 40 already? Where did the time go?" 

I've always been a person that can manage on his own very well, along with my beautiful dog, so I'm never actually alone. But when it comes to socialising with other people of my age....let's just say that doesn't happen too much. I have plenty of friends that live like 2 to 3 hours by train from me, so we don't hang around much. I'm also a shy person, but I never walk away from a good talk, but the challenge for me is, to get a good talk started. With elderly people it's no problem, but when it's with people of my age, especially women and especially even more so if I take a liking to them.....it's not easy for me to keep a nice talk going, like, I run out of things to say. 

Take this lady I met last Sunday when I was in the park with my dog, we talked a little, solely about our dogs and we went our own way. On Monday I saw her again, we talked again, about the dogs, bit about the weather. Like me, she's shy and it seems that I'm gonna be the one that has to steer our talks in a new direction, new subjects, but I do feel it shouldn't be like checking things off a list. I saw her again on Wednesday, yesterday and this morning. So it's been five times now. Maybe too early to say but I do like her. She's friendly, seems genuine and likeable. And i personally think the interest is mutual. But I've been burned before in the past, so I'm gonna take it easy on that expectation. 

For some reason yesterday when I saw her approaching I got nervous, no idea why. I've had this feeling before actually when I was still with my ex girlfriend, when I was walking to her house I got super nervous but once I was there all was fine. But this lady i barely know, so why do I get nervous when I've talked to her fine before? I ended up walking past her, making up some BS excuse that my dog wanted to go home, did wish her a nice day though. But I wish this stupid nonsense didn't happen, it's one thing I hate about myself. Because you could say that yesterday I was acting as if I'm not interested in talking and getting to know her at all, but it's the exact opposite. 

I need to work on this, that's for sure and I especially just need to chill, next time greet her, ask how she's doing and see what happens then. But I do need some advice on how to spark up new subjects. Next time we could be discussing our dogs again, but it would be nice to go into other subject matters too, but it should feel natural, not forced. 

How do I go about this? 

 

If this isn't the right sub forum for this, then please place it in the proper one. 

[JonasVE12]

This is not a problem related to a lack of conversation subjects. This is an emotional issue. You are reactive to your nervousness and fear. And you are a nice guy as well which means you aren't willing to push tension, not willing to own your feelings, and you are hiding your sexual desire from her. Instead of thinking about this issue, see if you can become more comfortable in your own body, be more bold, more honest and direct. And see if you can handle your own emotions while you are doing that. Because for a nice guy, that will be a painful thing to do. But that's where you will become attractive. That's where you will get a sense of safety in your body where you won't need to think as much in order to attract women. It will just happen. Conversations will flow from your body when you become grounded in your own emotional vulnerability. Thinking about this issue doesn't solve this. Facing emotional tension will. 

Next time you see her, simply say that you find her attractive and that you would want to get a coffee with her. It will probably not work out, but what matters is that you become vulnerable to what you actually feel and that you dare to express that. And if she rejects you, embrace that. Rejection is just guidance and it is guiding you to to become the man that you want to become. The problem is when you are not getting rejected and avoiding it by playing it safe. You should aim to meet a lot of women and practice emotional vulnerability. You can even say to her that you are nervous and own the shit out of it. That's attractive because you are owning your own emotions. Never run away from nervousness. Show it to her apologetically. But first you need to accept it yourself of course.

It shouldn't be about this girl. Make it about yourself and your own growth. 

[StaffyDoggo]

1 hour ago, JonasVE12 said:

This is not a problem related to a lack of conversation subjects. This is an emotional issue. You are reactive to your nervousness and fear. And you are a nice guy as well which means you aren't willing to push tension, not willing to own your feelings, and you are hiding your sexual desire from her. Instead of thinking about this issue, see if you can become more comfortable in your own body, be more bold, more honest and direct. And see if you can handle your own emotions while you are doing that. Because for a nice guy, that will be a painful thing to do. But that's where you will become attractive. That's where you will get a sense of safety in your body where you won't need to think as much in order to attract women. It will just happen. Conversations will flow from your body when you become grounded in your own emotional vulnerability. Thinking about this issue doesn't solve this. Facing emotional tension will. 

Next time you see her, simply say that you find her attractive and that you would want to get a coffee with her. It will probably not work out, but what matters is that you become vulnerable to what you actually feel and that you dare to express that. And if she rejects you, embrace that. Rejection is just guidance and it is guiding you to to become the man that you want to become. The problem is when you are not getting rejected and avoiding it by playing it safe. You should aim to meet a lot of women and practice emotional vulnerability. You can even say to her that you are nervous and own the shit out of it. That's attractive because you are owning your own emotions. Never run away from nervousness. Show it to her apologetically. But first you need to accept it yourself of course.

It shouldn't be about this girl. Make it about yourself and your own growth. 

 

Thanks for the kind words and for the advice, this is a lot and I appreciate it very much. There's another reason why I am this rusty when it comes to this. 2009 was when my ex broke up with me and I have never really tried a whole lot after that to find a nice woman again. My brother kept saying please dude give dating sites a chance, but I never did, I didn't believe in it. It's not that I didn't try asking ladies out a few times but I just haven't had any luck with that. They either already had a partner or I had read the signals way wrong.

But a month ago I finally made a change and signed up for a dating site that does things a bit differently, it's almost a blind date kind of thing. Long story short i just need to practice, just be around ladies more, talk to them, hang out with them. I'm sure if I start doing this, hopefully via this dating site (where I will be going in with zero expectations, which is always the better choice in my opinion) I can improve myself much more, that way next time I won't have these difficulties nearly as much. The thing is, I never shy away from a good conversation, but getting there is the hard part right now. 

 

Your advice about just being more bold, being honest basically and say I like her, find her attractive is good advice but I have tried this in the past with a lady that I could swear had given me crystal clear signals. It felt right to ask her out, so I said I really liked her and was wondering if she'd like to go have a drink with me, a cold and very brief "no" was the answer. I kinda feel that with this lady I want to small talk just a bit more first, we've spoken so very briefly and all we spoke about was dogs and the weather, lol. I haven't even told her my name yet, it's that early....I guess is the word. On the other hand if my intuition this time IS right she'll probably say yes if I ask her out. But to me it feels way too soon. So I'll talk some more, but I'll make sure not to delay it further and further. 

 

 

[Hugo Oliveira]

You are a man, she is a woman. I know it is easier said than done, but you already have an answer about the "missing" subject: it is HER. 

Culture and circumstances can make it feel wrong or unsuitable. But the truth is that you want to meet her. You can hide or deny it. But this is what you truly want. Check within yourself and be honest (I may be wrong).

Maybe you want to know about her life, what such a graceful woman is enchanted by, the kind of books she reads, what she does for a living, and what these things reveal to you about her. Maybe discover what you guys have in common beyond the dogs.  

I'm not suggesting you a list of subjects for the conversation, even less making her a "job interview" (be careful). I'm suggesting you connect with your true intentions and make the conversations happen from there. 

I know it may feel terrifying as dead. But you have to make a choice. To give it a chance. If you keep talking about the dogs you'll feel frustrated again. Maybe never see her again.

I'm not even suggesting asking her number or inviting her to a coffee someday (why not?). But allow your curiosity and desire to flow and call the shots. 
If you get vulnerable, allow it. If you get your feelings hurt, it will not kill you.

Bite the bullet, be honest. You like her as a woman. Nothing wrong with it. 

I wish you the best! 

[Vercingetorix]

What helped me breakthrough in my conversation skills was Making the conversations emotional. One way to do it is the "Screening and Qualifying" technique. https://davidtianphd.com/masterclass-content/ "From meet to date" video (whole video is good but specifically from 38:00 Minute Mark).

[Raze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJKiFisdi5g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLgMronkOYQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKAvQYCKhhM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhR3VSMHo2w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85jQpsxhMCc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxOih6GwSXI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MptvykZL2f4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QatJvwSQyG4

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Raze

[StaffyDoggo]

First of all, how can I simply delete quotes on this forum? All the replies I received here so far keep appearing whenever I want to post a reply in this thread. I had to use a different browser on my phone to just have a empty box to type in. Odd. Can't seem to remove the quotes in Chrome.

 

@Hugo Oliveira

 

You are 100% correct. I'd love to learn all about her, what makes her tick, basically. Ideally this had been a date because then I could ask all the personal questions without it seeming extremely out of the blue, and vice versa. But in this case....I've seen her five times, I don't even know her name yet and she doesn't know mine. It's really been five times that we spoke super briefly, but it's enough for me to be interested in getting to know her.

 

I've seen videos online (unless they are acted) where a guy walks up to a lady and just asks questions like it's second nature and these are questions I personally would think are just too random. But they respond normal to it. Maybe I'm getting too hung up on wanting to talk about different subjects, I should just continue talking to her and we'll see how it goes.

 

@Vercingetorix

 

I watched that bit, that's actually really good. And it made me realize that I've been a fool, or well, more like not paying enough attention. During one of our chats about dogs she said she leaves the dog home when she goes to fitness and how her dog would then always bark a lot, because she's not there. Now I did respond to that with that my dog barely ever barks, you can ring the door as many times you want, she won't bark. But in hindsight I probably should have asked where she goes to fitness, because I know that one is very close to our location. Or perhaps not, because truly how much can you really talk about when it's about fitness?

 

But it does teach me that I don't listen 100% to things, I need to truly listen and ask questions, show interest. But we are not there just yet. The number one conversation is still our amazing doggies, which honestly isn't bad at all. I mean I could ask her if she's planning on going to doggy/puppy training with her dog, since her dog is 11 months, and depending on her answer I could tell her that my dog has been on training several times and that it was great.

 

If our chats for now so stay at the dogs it's not the end of the world, because this IS training for me, it IS practice. If the dog talks stay interesting and we both enjoy it I can see our talks going into other directions too. Now I don't want to get overly positive, but this is probably not a bad idea if I'm not really feeling the idea of going straight for the "head" by asking too personal questions that feel out of the blue, like wtf did that come from, basically.

 

What that guy is saying is going to help me a lot if the dating site thing takes off. To explain what that site is about and sets it apart from others....

The owner of the site asks the people to write a letter to potential matches, tell who you are, your interests, your goal in life, passions etc. Include a few photos. The website reads the letter and then basically a search starts for potential matches. If matches appear their letter will be sent to me and the photos and if the interest is mutual a date happens. Sounds cool.

 

And if nothing comes from this, I can always just check out free sites, talk to women and meet up with them. Because I am not the kind of person to go into a coffee shop, bar, or just a museum, a expo, or just in general in a store and casually out of the blue start chatting women up, like we see in movies. Nah.

 

But as for this lady, I need to make sure that it does go somewhere, if she doesn't ask questions or doesn't show much interest then it's better to move on. But again, she's shy, could be reluctant to ask me questions, I don't know. 

Edited July 29, 2022 by StaffyDoggo

[Flint]

@StaffyDoggo Stop overthinking this or making a big deal out of it.

Dating is very harsh and requires you to man up, including doing things you're not comfortable with.

If you have not yet destroyed all of your chances by doing nothing while you had already 5 opportunities, you need wake up and lead, so just ask her out for a coffee next time you see her. It's incredible to me that you have not chatted about anything personal after meeting regularly like here she's from, what she does, those kind of things.

Just do it and learn from the experience. You can't stay stuck on small things like that forever.

[StaffyDoggo]

@Raze

 

Watched the first video. That is really good stuff and it makes so much sense too. In a way I have been doing this for a while, just not enough. When I walk my dog and I meet others with their dog I always greet them and with some I guess you could say I consider acquaintances now. When I see them I ask how they are doing and stuff.

But when I go to the city for something to eat like Burger King, or a Pizza or a actual restaurant I don't really conversate with the people working there, but from now on I'm gonna do it more often. I can ask how their day is doing or just thank them for always providing me with a great meal, I'm learning things here. My father always said be kind to others, most of the time they will be kind back. And I've always been kind, I just never really did much of the things the guy in the video says. It's not like I'm just going out on the street and greet literally everyone, but I will start showing a lot more interest in others when it makes sense to do so.

 

They don't say practice, practice, practice for nothing. Makes so much sense, but you just don't always realise it.

@Flint   I understand you. I did say five times but the fifth time I was playing with my dog and I saw her from a distance. I did greet her, just didn't stop the game with my dog and walk up to her.   As for why nothingIpersonal has been talked about yet. I guess it just felt too out of the blue, random or unnatural to me to change from dog talk and weather talk to something personal. And again, all these chats have been very brief so far.

Edited July 29, 2022 by StaffyDoggo

[Flint]

12 hours ago, StaffyDoggo said:

 

@Flint   I understand you. I did say five times but the fifth time I was playing with my dog and I saw her from a distance. I did greet her, just didn't stop the game with my dog and walk up to her.   As for why nothingIpersonal has been talked about yet. I guess it just felt too out of the blue, random or unnatural to me to change from dog talk and weather talk to something personal. And again, all these chats have been very brief so far.

It's pretty much always the same story, a guy wants to have better social social skills and to have a nice girlfriend and at the same time never does any actual work to change and allow it to happen. This should be a wake up call for you.

That's why I think they invented "right action" - you do what is right relative to the result you need to get, regardless of your objections, arguments and how you feel. It doesn't feel natural ? Well though tities you're doing it anyway. It doesn't matter. You don't really have a choice, either you step up and take action or you simply stay miserable.

So simply have a longer chat and ask her out. Then have a date and otherwise realize you need to take more action to tackle this situation and do so.

[Asayake]

Might want to look into your MBTI type if that's something that interests you. I believe MBTI is a very useful model to understand why we have the strengths and weaknesses we as well as others have. Learning about the different cognitive functions and figuring out which ones you have could be very insightful for you moving forward. Also it would increase your understanding of what makes other types tick/what's important to other types. Then you would be able to start communicating more tailored to who you're talking to, and understand others better which would also likely make you more confident when talking to others as everything isn't quite as mysterious/cryptic anymore.

[StaffyDoggo]

On 02/08/2022 at 5:27 PM, Asayake said:

Might want to look into your MBTI type if that's something that interests you. I believe MBTI is a very useful model to understand why we have the strengths and weaknesses we as well as others have. Learning about the different cognitive functions and figuring out which ones you have could be very insightful for you moving forward. Also it would increase your understanding of what makes other types tick/what's important to other types. Then you would be able to start communicating more tailored to who you're talking to, and understand others better which would also likely make you more confident when talking to others as everything isn't quite as mysterious/cryptic anymore.

 

I have no idea what MBTI is, but I will look into it.

Ever since my last post I've been working on my talking skills, if you will. And I am already noticing a change. Especially my confidence. It's not that I didn't used to greet and chat with people I know around here before, but I now do it more with strangers too, nothing too fancy but you know.....baby steps.

 

As for the lady, haven't seen her in the usual place for three days now. The week before she was there every morning. But things change, could be anything. We'll see what happens.