Questions regarding protein, weight lifting, and weight loss

[soos_mite_ah]

I was planning on making this post before and then it came up in my lipo post. I don't want it to go unnoticed so I'm going to copy and paste this comment and my bolded response down below. I want to credit @Consilience and I want to emphasize the questions that are bolded and underlined.

On 7/24/2022 at 7:52 PM, soos_mite_ah said:

Working out the core does not spot reduce fat. This is a huge misconception in the fitness industry. Cardio is not nearly as helpful for body recomposition as weight lifting.

The biggest adjustments you need to make are 

1) Progressive overload to your weight training - if you aren’t consistently getting stronger, you want be growing muscle which is what increases the metabolism and increases the passive fat burning weight lifting is known for. This process is called EPOCH. But if you’re just lifting the same amount of weight, same number of sets, same reps without making progress, progress will stall.  Done. I love progressing in weights. It's what I use to track progress since looking at my weight and measurements hasn't been the healthiest for me. 

2) Training close enough to failure without hitting failure - if you train to failure, this eventually creates issues for your nervous system and overall recovery. Sometimes training extra hard and going to failure can be fun, but for sustainability purposes, it must be used sparingly. Instead, you should focus on training anywhere from 1-3 reps away from failure each set. This has been shown to be a sufficient training intensity for hypertrophy, which again, look at point 1. Done. I try to aim for close to failure or failure depending on the exercise to avoid injury. 

3) Protein intake! Your macronutrient composition is extremely important. Carbohydrate quality matters very little when it comes to fat loss and muscle gain. Look into if it fits your macros/flexible dieting. It’s a whole movement in the natural bodybuilding scene. However, carb quality will have a big impact on energy levels, mental health and other health outcomes so don’t just ignore it, but in terms of body recomp, you need to focus on macros. You should aim for 20 - 30% of calories coming from protein and filling the rest with carbs and fat based on what makes your body feel the best for workouts and what helps satiate for hunger management. I haven't been tracking macros as I previously had a dysfunctional relationship with food. However, I don't mind tracking protein or tracking with the intention of making sure I get enough in. It's just the resticting that often causes me to spiral. 

4) Don’t cut out carbs - calorie deficits are what help people lose weight. Calorie deficit + what I listed 1-3 = fat loss. Fat loss = what you want, not weight loss. Moreover, carbs are very important for keeping your weight training progressing. You’ll make much less progress eating a protein/fat only diet and therefore, wont be as successful with recomping your body the way you want. Question on the calorie deficit. So I've been eating more than usual to get my metabolism back on track. I noticed that now if I don't eat enough I'm prone to hunger headaches. On top of that I'm currently studying abroad so I'm not weight lifting rather I'm walking 5-7 miles every day (tours, seeing cities etc.) in addition to my unintentional calorie deficit. I noticed my clothes getting loser but I noticed that I still have the same pinchable amount of fat. Then I noticed that my arms looked less toned despite my shirts feeling loser so I concluded that I likely lost muscle. My question is, how much of a calorie deficit is too much and how does working out and the amount of protien impact whether you lose muscle or lose fat? 
 

5) Weight lifting > cardio - to reiterate, cardio is not going to be nearly as effective with what you’re going for as weight lifting. Lowkey this comforts me because I enjoy weight lifting and dread cardio lmao. But I will admit, I'm a little hesitent about weight lifting since I noticed that I tend to get big pretty quickly without losing fat. Then again, it probably has to do with me trying to heal my metabolism my eating more but I also noticed that when I do weight lifting in a calorie deficit, while I can still lift the same amount, I find myself needing to take more breaks between sets or lessen the amount of sets I do. How do I deal with this?  

[UDT]

Pretty solid

[Jannes]

I can’t quote that so I will answer this way. 
 

3) It depends on how seriously you want to be. I would just integrate high protein food in my diet. Maybe count it at the beginning to get a feel for it. If you want to maximize muscle growth you should eat protein every 4 hours but I wouldn’t worry about that if you develope unhealthy eating patterns as a consequence of following this rule. You can still make good process if you just have protein rich food in your diet and don’t look at specific timing. 
 

4) You will always look more fat and less muscular at the beginning of the diet because your glycogen stores in your muscles will deplete (making them smaller) because of the lack of calories. It could also be because of salt intake. You could make the experiment of eating a bit above maintenance for 2 days where most calories come from carbs. Your muscles will be more full and will seem less fat. Then you could make a comparison to before. 
 

But it’s of course possible that you lost muscle. 
 

The more calories you eat the more likely it is to build muscle and the less calories you eat the more likely it is that you loose muscle. If you train then you probably won’t loose muscle if the caloric deficit isn’t to big. How big the deficit can be if you want to recomp (build muscle and loose fat) really depends on how muscular and fat you are. If you never trained in your life and are like 50% bodyfat you could make insane muscle gains in a 1500 calorie deficit. If you trained for 10 years and want to go 20% bodyfat to 15% bodyfat (female) then there is basically no way you won’t loose some muscle even on a 300 calorie deficit and professional training. 
 

Protein helps to build/keep muscle. If there are two people dieting. Both with same calorie deficit but Person A with a 0.5g of protein per pound of bodyweight intake and Person B with a 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight intake, Person B will keep SIGNIFICANTLY more muscle. I can’t quote a study right now but it is A LOT more muscle that person B kept. AND protein is the best macro for satiety by far. Many people diet on lean protein and veggies only. Of course you said you don’t want to restrict but maybe there are some recipes that you might like. Protein and fiber is quite a combo for dieting! 
 

5) girls are always so scared about looking big. I think most guys don’t mind if a girl has some muscle. Actually if a girl is a bit chubby but has some curves because of her muscle and especially some well developed glutes that can compensate a lot 

But that’s just my view on things. If you want a less bulkier look then go for it. 
 

When you are in a calorie deficit you won’t have as energy and your training will suffer a bit, that’s normal. But you can compensate with a few things:

-be well rested before the training 

-have a pre workout (or coffee)

-have some fast digesting carbs like a bit of dried fruit before the workout for energy 

-train more often but shorter 

-do your really hard moves at the beginning. (for example start with squats first and then go for chest, back, shoulder exercises…)

[soos_mite_ah]

@Jannes So this is what I'm getting at. Let me know if I have any misconceptions: 

• If you want to maintain muscle while in a calorie deficit, make sure you're getting in enough protein. 
• You might lose muscle regardless of protein intake while in a calorie deficit depending on your body composition.
• Calorie deficits, regardless of the amount of protein, can impact your energy and training  but you can make it up by doing other things.

My thing is that I'm about 160lbs and 5'2". I have a decent amount of muscle mass already to where I see arm definition in certain lighting and whenever I run my hands over my thighs I can feel my different quad muscles. My forearms and my calves feel very solid. I'm mainly looking to lose some fat to get smaller and so that I can see my progress. I feel like I was already a little chubby and since gaining muscle I feel like I look even bigger and my clothes fit weird. I'm not looking to get rid of the muscle since that won't be good for my health but I do want to lose fat. As a result, I have been a little hesitant with strength training recently because I don't want to gain more muscle but I do want to maintain it while losing fat.  

[Salvijus]

Do suriya namaskar every day. U'll be dry and lean as a stick. Fit and light as a bird and not muscular. There is a way to improve your organ health, bone health, tenacity of lingaments, body tissues, joints etc, improve circulation of various fluids. All that is much more important to health then lifting weights.

Add some ayurveda herbs and lifestyle modifications to improve your digestion and health and u'll be fat free. There's a lot of potential here. Gym and weight lifting is pretty lame and ineffective to lose fat i believe.

Also u need to work out daily. That's the minimum. Body is easily capable and literaly designed to be excercised daily. 3-4 times a week is what grandmas do. Walking from home to work is also not gonna be remotely enough.

Eat twice a day. Intermitted fasting may help to lose weight. If u drink plenty of water your headaches and dizziness will go away. Drinking warm water with citrus juice on empty stomach in the morning especially has a good effect on reducing fat.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Salvijus

[soos_mite_ah]

@Judy2 Yeah.... i tried intermittent fasting. It didn't do much other than get rid of my hunger cues to where I could go 600 calories a day and somehow still be full and bloated. Took me a while to get out of that one and get to a point where I wasn't afraid to eat regularly. And drinking water instead of eating to cope with the hunger was something I did at the peak of my eating disorder. Not to mention constantly being hangry and in a bad mood. No thank you. Same with being low carb. 

[Salvijus]

15 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

And the lemon water is SUCH a myth, it doesn't really do much.

Lol ? 

Yea maybe. It could be just a small tip in a right direction maybe. If a serious change is desired, i believe doing a thorough ayurveda examimation would be essential. Health is way to complex subject to understand it on your own imo.

What's ed history btw?

[soos_mite_ah]

2 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

What's ed history btw?

Eating disorder history 

I was anorexic for a couple years and dieted a lot when I was younger. I have recently had to deal with a bunch of nutritional deficiencies lately as well as a messed up metabolism as a reprucusion of my previous history. 

[Salvijus]

@soos_mite_ah

19 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I could go 600 calories a day and somehow still be full and bloated

do u go for a 40min walk after u eat or do u sit immediately and do nothing? These look like small things but it matters a lot. If u sit right after a meal u are making digestion more difficult for stomach. This increase the amount of fat that get stored in the belly and the feeling of bloatness.

I bet you're doing tons of wrong lifestyle things that you're not even aware of. and probably u have some digestion problems that weight lifting is not gonna help. U need proper medicine herbs here. Certain yogic practices help ignite the digestion fire like suriya namaskar.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Salvijus

[soos_mite_ah]

@Salvijus It was actually due to severly undereating, not having any bowel movements because I was starving myself, and fucking up my gut bacteria by restricting the types of foods I ate. I stopped feeling bloated ever since I started eating like a normal person. 

[Salvijus]

"I was starving myself"

Women are crazy ? 

But intermitted fasting is not even fasting. I eat twice a day for years, i never even notice it, or would call it fasting even. It's just normal amount that the body needs really.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Salvijus

[soos_mite_ah]

@Salvijus yeah.... I can't eat a 1000 calories in one sitting. Even if I didn't try to diet/restrict, I would tend to unintentionally undereat. If it works for you that's great, but it doesn't work that way for me 

[Jannes]

3 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

@Jannes So this is what I'm getting at. Let me know if I have any misconceptions: 

• If you want to maintain muscle while in a calorie deficit, make sure you're getting in enough protein.

Yes!

3 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

• You might lose muscle regardless of protein intake while in a calorie deficit depending on your body composition.
   

Yes! The more advanced you are (the more muscle and less fat) the more likely it is that you loose muscle. 

3 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

• Calorie deficits, regardless of the amount of protein, can impact your energy and training  but you can make it up by doing other things. 

Yeah but you can’t compensate optimally obviously. At some point you definetly need a diet break where you eat enough calories to just maintain your bodyweight and recover your body (lower cravings, reboot metabolism, lower stress, ..). If you feel extremely tired on your diet you are pushing it to hard. Up the calories a bit or do a break. 

3 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

My thing is that I'm about 160lbs and 5'2". I have a decent amount of muscle mass already to where I see arm definition in certain lighting and whenever I run my hands over my thighs I can feel my different quad muscles. My forearms and my calves feel very solid. I'm mainly looking to lose some fat to get smaller and so that I can see my progress. I feel like I was already a little chubby and since gaining muscle I feel like I look even bigger and my clothes fit weird. I'm not looking to get rid of the muscle since that won't be good for my health but I do want to lose fat. As a result, I have been a little hesitant with strength training recently because I don't want to gain more muscle but I do want to maintain it while losing fat.  

You cant gain a lot of muscle on a diet or definetly less then compared to when you would eat at maintenance or in a calorie surplus. For how long have you been training ?

[soos_mite_ah]

@Jannes about 5 months 

[Salvijus]

34 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

@Salvijus yeah.... I can't eat a 1000 calories in one sitting. Even if I didn't try to diet/restrict, I would tend to unintentionally undereat. If it works for you that's great, but it doesn't work that way for me 

I never counted calories in my life. I just eat until im full. I eat a bowl of fruits, then a vegetable like a tomato and avocado and then a two handfulls of grains with lentils. How much calories is that? I think that's like 500maybe.

A small tip. Eating food in this order: fruits then vegetables then cooked food is really good for your digestion and u won't feel bloated in this way. Don't drink water 40min before and after as it slows down digestion.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Salvijus

[Jannes]

5 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

@Jannes about 5 months 

Then you can definitely build muscle on a diet. Especially when you also increase your protein. I would encourage you to still workout though. Loose fat while building muscle. You probably don’t have a huge amount of muscle after training for 5 months unless you are very genetically gifted when it comes to packing on muscle. And you will become slimmer so if you want curves you need more muscles for that plus you burn more calories just from more muscle alone. But it’s your choice. If you want to just keep the muscle you can just not increase the amount of protein that you eat and maybe train a bit less. 

[Salvijus]

@Judy2 really? I didn't think it was trauma. If i had to guess it was an insecurity of body weight. Something that what every woman has these days. I bet more like 50% of women have tried to starve themselves to lose weight ? i think that's pretty funny. And insanse. Weird combination of feelings ? 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Salvijus

[Michael569]

13 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Also u need to work out daily. That's the minimum. Body is easily capable and literaly designed to be excercised daily. 3-4 times a week is what grandmas do. Walking from home to work is also not gonna be remotely enough

i agree with this, the notion that a few light sessions per week here and there are enough is far from what is needed to keep the body healthy and slim with all the sitting most of us do and hyperpalatable foods 

The differences will start becoming obvious after menopause and andropause the most. Before that we are protected by genetics and hormones a lot 

[Salvijus]

2 hours ago, Judy2 said:

@Salvijus I mean when we are talking about actual eating disorders there tends to be a deeper underlying issue, that has surprisingly little to do with what you look like. It may seem like a funny or naive thing to do from the outside, but the internal experience is very serious and not fun at all.

Okey, you're right. I was not laughing at people with eating disorders. I just find people who starve themselves intentionally to lose weight to be a bit ridiculous and funny. And i know for a fact there are a lot of them. Almost every woman has that pressure to look lean and it causes them to starve and restrict themselves a lot i believe, at least a little bit. It's not mockingly funny. But funny in a way that it's a bit ridiculous and anti-smart. At least from my perspective.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

@Judy2 probably i would chose the path of least resistence. Something in between like u sayed. Trying to pretend to be spiritual and act against all conditioning with nothing but sheer mental will is going to bring a lot of suffering also. 

I think each one has to descide according to the level of pressure and level of conciousness growth they have. And even if somebody is fully trancended all conditioning may still chose to conform to some level just to avoid unnecessary conflict. There seems to be many exceptions to it.

Nobody can explain these things in words i think. One who is attuned to everything and is living from presence simply knows what is the most harmonious thing to do at any given moment spontanuously without thinking. That would be the best and my favorite option. Relying on the mind in such situations is a guarantee of confusion, doubt, and constant wrong choice making ? 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Salvijus