Did anybody watch Carnival 2003?

[puporing]

8 hours ago, Nilsi said:

That's not what I'm saying. I can listen to some corny EDM tune and actually fucking enjoy it, and I will feel like it's the greatest shit ever. A few hours later I will listen to some Chopin, and the same thing will happen. It's only in hindsight that you actually go about "objectively" analysing this stuff.

 

8 hours ago, The Mystical Man said:

I think we're basically saying the same thing. You're saying that the experience of art is always subjective. And I agree. The analysis of art, however, should be objective. 

I think there's both "subjectivity" and "objectivity". The objective is roughly based on your level of consciousness/development, the subjective dictates the more specific art you're drawn to as it resonates with you.

Chopin is also a great example of music reflecting the nature of reality/God. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by puporing

[Nilsi]

7 hours ago, puporing said:

 

I think there's both "subjectivity" and "objectivity". The objective is roughly based on your level of consciousness/development, the subjective dictates the more specific art you're drawn to as it resonates with you.

Chopin is also a great example of music reflecting the nature of reality/God. 

I don't know. By what metrics is Chopin more reflective of reality than some EDM tune? I get where you're coming from, but this is really just a giant house of cards. 

This may be one of the corniest songs ever, but the enjoyment I get from it is off the charts.

 

[The Mystical Man]

2 hours ago, Nilsi said:

By what metrics is Chopin more reflective of reality than some EDM tune?

It's difficult, if not impossible, to come up with specific metrics, but certain artworks are simply more reflective of the beauty, sacredness, and intelligence of God than others. For example, Dr. Hawkins calibrated Arvo Pärt at 700. Even if you don't agree with Hawkins's calibrations, I think this is still an interesting list.

I think the beauty of an artwork depends on the level of consciousness of the creator:

"Study reveals that saintliness is a descriptive term applied to people who have reached, usually, [... ] the high 500s.
At this level joy leads many to become spiritual and inspirational teachers, healers, great artists, or even great architects who create the great cathedrals, great inspirational music, and the production of beauty in all its forms." - Dr. Hawkins

Edited August 11, 2022 by The Mystical Man

[Nilsi]

12 minutes ago, The Mystical Man said:

It's difficult to come up with specific metrics, but certain artworks are simply more reflective of the beauty, sacredness, and intelligence of God than others. For example, Dr. Hawkins calibrated Arvo Pärt at 700. Even if you don't agree with Hawkins's calibrations, I think this is still an interesting list.

 

You could maybe track the level of abstraction within a given genre, and equate that with higher "consciousness." But how you frame the genre and how you measure abstraction is also totally arbitrary. I could make the case that Bach is a low consciousness knuckle head, because his stuff is so simple and orderly and Ravel is a galaxy brain for his complex compositions, but that's still completely arbitrary.

I have my own aesthetic preferences, and for all practical purposes, I will make value judgements of art, but it's really not grounded in anything objective.

I don't want to be unnecessarily postmodernist about this, but I have yet to see any convincing way of systematizing and objectifying art (and I don't think that's possible, nor desirable).

Edited August 11, 2022 by Nilsi

[puporing]

5 hours ago, Nilsi said:

I don't know. By what metrics is Chopin more reflective of reality than some EDM tune? I get where you're coming from, but this is really just a giant house of cards. 

This may be one of the corniest songs ever, but the enjoyment I get from it is off the charts.

 

It's not the genre I'm talking about. "Classical music" is very diverse. So within "EDM" of course you could have ones more reflective of God, same with rock or whatever genre. A good artist will usually appreciate many different genres of art as well.

I make a special case for Chopin (and some others) because he has reached what I consider "the spiritual heights" from one instrument. Actually I think he was intentionally or unintentionally discovering God with his work.

Edited August 11, 2022 by puporing

[Nilsi]

21 minutes ago, puporing said:

It's not the genre I'm talking about. "Classical music" is very diverse. So within "EDM" of course you could have ones more reflective of God, same with rock or whatever genre. A good artist will usually appreciate many different genres of art as well.

I make a special case for Chopin (and some others) because he has reached what I consider "the spiritual heights" from one instrument.

That's fine. I also think like this, and can certainly appreciate someone like Hendrix or Chopin or Davis being virtuosos on their instrument. But that's still not really talking about the actual music, but more about the ideas that accompany it. But yeah, I'm starting to split hairs and I don't really have a point I'm trying to make, so let's just leave it at that

[puporing]

29 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

But that's still not really talking about the actual music, but more about the ideas that accompany it. But yeah, I'm starting to split hairs and I don't really have a point I'm trying to make, so let's just leave it at that

Yeah the actual music to put it to words it would be around things like, divinity, profundity, beauty, infinity, light and darkness, love, humor, gracefulness, intelligence, paradox, consciousness. That last one is a bit hard to define but you know it when you see it.

Edited August 11, 2022 by puporing

[integral]

Season 1 the priests journey and redemption was exceptional. An example of "what is the devil?", YOU.

The torment of realizing you are the devil this entire time. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by integral

[puporing]

2 hours ago, integral said:

Season 1 the priests journey and redemption was exceptional. An example of "what is the devil?", YOU.

The torment of realizing you are the devil this entire time. 

You had to be/experience unconsciousness to move towards more consciousness.