Andrew Tate explained

[zurew]

3 hours ago, hyruga said:

There is nothing much else to talk about spirituality so why are people still talking over here or on YouTube?

I also think that Tate as a ex fighter and also with his other exploits, he had valuable experiences to share and he's not just another Brian Tracy.

 

True. The same knowledge could be taught and talked about in a different light, based on who is doing the teaching/talking. Also, you can arrive at the same conclusion starting from a different position than others, so because of that, there will be some people who can resonate with you more, because they can relate to your story and life experiences more. And not just that they can relate to your story more, but they can see what steps you had to take in order to reach the goal you wanted to reach.

So there could be a thousand different paths that can lead to the same conclusion, and different paths can give different lessons and guidances to different people.

I also agree with @Carl-Richard that we have to integrate our shadows. On this forum, most of us haven't really integrated the healthy aspects of stage red and stage orange  enough, especially the younger audience (including me).

I think some questions could be asked  to test how much we have integrated the healthy aspects of stage red and orange:

• Do you have financial problems?
• Do you know what you are good at ?
• Do you know how you could provide massive value?
• Do you consider yourself successful (whatever success means to you)
• Do you have the capability to stand up for yourself and for your values?
• Do you have a job/business that you are passionate about / that you like
• Do you have a hard time expressing yourself authentically?
• Do you have the capability to take a leading role if its necessary / if its needed?
• Do you have a strong charisma?
• Do you have a healthy self esteem?
• Do you have your relationship goals met?
• Do you have a good sex life?
• How much can you sacrifice to reach your desires/goals?
• Can you consciously motivate yourself?
• Can you set tangible goals?
• Do you have a plan where your life is going or you are just living aimlessly in life?
• Do you have the capability to be highly rational if its needed / if its necessary?

Edited July 27, 2022 by zurew

[flyingguitarist]

@zurew 

42 minutes ago, zurew said:

I think some questions could be asked  to test how much we have integrated the healthy aspects of stage red and orange:

• Do you have financial problems?
• Do you know what you are good at ?
• Do you know how you could provide massive value?
• Do you consider yourself successful (whatever success means to you)
• Do you have the capability to stand up for yourself and for your values?
• Do you have a job/business that you are passionate about / that you like
• Do you have a hard time expressing yourself authentically?
• Do you have the capability to take a leading role if its necessary / if its needed?
• Do you have a strong charisma?
• Do you have a healthy self esteem?
• Do you have your relationship goals met?
• Do you have a good sex life?
• How much can you sacrifice to reach your desires/goals?
• Can you consciously motivate yourself?
• Can you set tangible goals?
• Do you have a plan where your life is going or you are just living aimlessly in life?
• Do you have the capability to be highly rational if its needed / if its necessary?

Well written! Gonna save these questions to place a check if I went head over the clouds .I don't care about Andrew tate's personality or whoever he is but having a yes to  these questions are so crucial .

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by flyingguitarist

[Kksd74628]

@hyruga

Doesn't every business work like you pay something and receive service, product or something else? At least for me it works perfectly as a motivator to be more masculine and making things happen. I understand that more spiritual businesses make their imago look very friendly, emphatic and easy to approach. The thing is that I've already watched the video I linked about Andrew Tate and I am watching another one right now and I don't see too many problems in him. For your info I am very good to ready people's personalities.

[Razard86]

8 hours ago, hyruga said:

 

8 hours ago, hyruga said:

 

@Razard86 everyone later than Leo is also late to the party. There is nothing much else to talk about spirituality so why are people still talking over here or on YouTube?

I also think that Tate as a ex fighter and also with his other exploits, he had valuable experiences to share and he's not just another Brian Tracy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. You don't understand what late to the party even means. Its not a time issue, if it was Leo would be late to the party since Spirituality is an ancient practice. Hinduism is the oldest religion and many of the Spiritual concepts are heavily influenced by Hinduism. So from that perspective you don't even make sense. But again its not a time issue. 

Second there are many people on this forum who have contributed many unique insights and perspectives on Spirituality and Leo isn't the only teacher there are many. Since you are trying to equivocate Tate in the manosphere to the people on this forum I challenge you to tell me something Tate has said that is profound or meaningful. Now be wary I was in the manosphere for 2 years. I understand the manosphere inside and out. I know there ideology I even know the history of why it got started and why it currently exists. I could write a book about this cultural movement which is a movement that actually helped Jordan Peterson become successful.

So my issue with Tate is he isn't original, he does not give off a desire to push the movement to new heights, he is just hear there for money and attention. Also you cannot be in the red pill mindset and be into spirituality. The red pill can be boiled down to service to self, mistrust of others, there was a redpill Youtuber I used to follow who literally said You should not love, in fact a couple I know said that. 

The manosphere is a movement that is literally afraid of love because they believe they will be taken advantage of if they love. Some even say love doesn't exist. You really don't understand how dangerous and a step back the manosphere is. The only real benefit from the manosphere is personal development, and practicality which is all important. But it makes you blind. The manosphere itself is an expression of love, yet the people in the movement are telling you that love doesn't exist. Love is passion. Do you see and hear the passion of the men in the manosphere? They love masculinity, they love manhood, and they are telling you love doesn't exist? Its foolish, its the blind leading the blind!! Most will fall in and NEVER escape.

So again what has Tate contributed besides fancy cars, and videos with hot women in it? Many of the red pill guys would actually warn you to not admire such a lifestyle and to focus on yourself. 

[hyruga]

24 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

1. You don't understand what late to the party even means. Its not a time issue, if it was Leo would be late to the party since Spirituality is an ancient practice. Hinduism is the oldest religion and many of the Spiritual concepts are heavily influenced by Hinduism. So from that perspective you don't even make sense. But again its not a time issue. 

Second there are many people on this forum who have contributed many unique insights and perspectives on Spirituality and Leo isn't the only teacher there are many. Since you are trying to equivocate Tate in the manosphere to the people on this forum I challenge you to tell me something Tate has said that is profound or meaningful. Now be wary I was in the manosphere for 2 years. I understand the manosphere inside and out. I know there ideology I even know the history of why it got started and why it currently exists. I could write a book about this cultural movement which is a movement that actually helped Jordan Peterson become successful.

So my issue with Tate is he isn't original, he does not give off a desire to push the movement to new heights, he is just hear there for money and attention. Also you cannot be in the red pill mindset and be into spirituality. The red pill can be boiled down to service to self, mistrust of others, there was a redpill Youtuber I used to follow who literally said You should not love, in fact a couple I know said that. 

The manosphere is a movement that is literally afraid of love because they believe they will be taken advantage of if they love. Some even say love doesn't exist. You really don't understand how dangerous and a step back the manosphere is. The only real benefit from the manosphere is personal development, and practicality which is all important. But it makes you blind. The manosphere itself is an expression of love, yet the people in the movement are telling you that love doesn't exist. Love is passion. Do you see and hear the passion of the men in the manosphere? They love masculinity, they love manhood, and they are telling you love doesn't exist? Its foolish, its the blind leading the blind!! Most will fall in and NEVER escape.

So again what has Tate contributed besides fancy cars, and videos with hot women in it? Many of the red pill guys would actually warn you to not admire such a lifestyle and to focus on yourself. 

Tate has undergone several reality programs and showed how demonstrated real leadership in this programs. Name 5 self help leaders who participated in reality shows?

Tate has won MMA championships and been through victories and losses. Tate understood the dangers of losing his life, his ego, his eyes in a fight and had mentioned all these several times. Name 5 self help gurus who understand the dangers of fighting and have real life experiences to show for them?

How many self help leaders have led a more intense life than Tate does? So if they led less intense lives, most of them essentially contributed little to self help anyway. All the Brian Tracy, john Maxwell are essentially copying from the past generations. What they have contributed anyway? Let alone all the new speakers like alpha.m, Joseph rodriguez. None of them offered anything more intense than Tate and most of them is not original anyway so everyone should just close shop and pretend Youtube does not exist just like how it was 40 years ago?

[Nilsi]

22 minutes ago, hyruga said:

Tate has undergone several reality programs and showed how demonstrated real leadership in this programs. Name 5 self help leaders who participated in reality shows?

Tate has won MMA championships and been through victories and losses. Tate understood the dangers of losing his life, his ego, his eyes in a fight and had mentioned all these several times. Name 5 self help gurus who understand the dangers of fighting and have real life experiences to show for them?

How many self help leaders have led a more intense life than Tate does? So if they led less intense lives, most of them essentially contributed little to self help anyway. All the Brian Tracy, john Maxwell are essentially copying from the past generations. What they have contributed anyway? Let alone all the new speakers like alpha.m, Joseph rodriguez. None of them offered anything more intense than Tate and most of them is not original anyway so everyone should just close shop and pretend Youtube does not exist just like how it was 40 years ago?

Name 5 self help gurus that are human traffickers. Name 5 self help gurus that marginalize rape. Name 5 self help gurus that punch women in the face. This guy is clearly ahead of the curve.

I fail to see how this is even relevant at all. Name me a self help guru that has won wimbledon. Name me a self help guru that has been to the ISS. Name me a self help guru that has won a grammy. You are just stating random facts as if they were somehow benchmarks for what a good teacher must be.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Nilsi

[undeather]

20 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

1. You don't understand what late to the party even means. Its not a time issue, if it was Leo would be late to the party since Spirituality is an ancient practice. Hinduism is the oldest religion and many of the Spiritual concepts are heavily influenced by Hinduism. So from that perspective you don't even make sense. But again its not a time issue. 

Second there are many people on this forum who have contributed many unique insights and perspectives on Spirituality and Leo isn't the only teacher there are many. Since you are trying to equivocate Tate in the manosphere to the people on this forum I challenge you to tell me something Tate has said that is profound or meaningful. Now be wary I was in the manosphere for 2 years. I understand the manosphere inside and out. I know there ideology I even know the history of why it got started and why it currently exists. I could write a book about this cultural movement which is a movement that actually helped Jordan Peterson become successful.

So my issue with Tate is he isn't original, he does not give off a desire to push the movement to new heights, he is just hear there for money and attention. Also you cannot be in the red pill mindset and be into spirituality. The red pill can be boiled down to service to self, mistrust of others, there was a redpill Youtuber I used to follow who literally said You should not love, in fact a couple I know said that. 

The manosphere is a movement that is literally afraid of love because they believe they will be taken advantage of if they love. Some even say love doesn't exist. You really don't understand how dangerous and a step back the manosphere is. The only real benefit from the manosphere is personal development, and practicality which is all important. But it makes you blind. The manosphere itself is an expression of love, yet the people in the movement are telling you that love doesn't exist. Love is passion. Do you see and hear the passion of the men in the manosphere? They love masculinity, they love manhood, and they are telling you love doesn't exist? Its foolish, its the blind leading the blind!! Most will fall in and NEVER escape.

So again what has Tate contributed besides fancy cars, and videos with hot women in it? Many of the red pill guys would actually warn you to not admire such a lifestyle and to focus on yourself. 

I think Tate stands out in a way because, compared to many other "thoughtleaders" in the manosphere, he actually walked the talk and achieved insanely difficult milestones in a relateively short amount of time. Let's just forget his regressive/unnuanced views for a second - winning two world titles in a martial art is, on its own, hella impressive. Creating an online membership program that makes at least 7 digits each month is also not to be taken lightly. Now put that into the context of someone who actually grew up poor, went through a lot of shit and still made it - thats even more extraordinary. So yes, he definitely is kinda special and I can respect him for just that, regardless of what he says or does otherwise. Those achievements require a certain mindset/pattern of being that has become insanely rare in our world.

Tate also shares a pretty unqiue philosophy of life, which is undeniably consistent throughout his line of arguments. As I said before, I disagree with most of his regressive ideas - but I cant help to admit that some of his positons are carefully thought through and coherent. Just compare him to the other talking heads in the red pill/manosphere-community - most of them are pathologically unaware of their own heuristic.

If you hold him to a 2nd tier standard, then of course he wont push the movement to new heights in your eyes. Its inherently a tier 1 subject and moving on means transcending its purpose. 

If absolute novelty is your benchmark, then yeah - you will just see the guy with fancy cars and hot women. There is nothing new under the sun - 99% of what current teachers in spirituality are sharing has already been said hundreds of times before. However, its the individual aspect that gives the message its weight. 

To boil down the whole movement to self-service & mistrust is a very postmodern (stage green) way of looking at the world. Its kinda true at the one hand but also very limited in the context of the whole picture. There is a reason why many young men are so attracted to this line of thinking and its not only because they are all egoisitc assholes who want to fuck over the world for their own benefit. 

 

[undeather]

26 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Name 5 self help gurus that are human traffickers. Name 5 self help gurus that marginalize rape. Name 5 self help gurus that punch women in the face. This guy is clearly ahead of the curve.

I fail to see how this is even relevant at all. Name me a self help guru that has won wimbledon. Name me a self help guru that has been to the ISS. Name me a self help guru that has won a grammy. You are just stating random facts as if they were somehow benchmarks for what a good teacher must be.

Thats a lot of whataboutism and irrelevant objections.

Nobody (in the right mind) ever said that Tate is an innocent role model for modern musculinity. I am sure he has done some really evil stuff in his life but thats not the point. Also, what the hell are those comparisons - we are talking about mindset/self-help and achievement ...and achieving a world-title in a martial art gives you a lot of weight in those categories. Yes, winning wimbledon or being an astronaut would indicate a certain pattern of being which undoudebtly puts you in a position of having something to teach. And thats exactly our argument ....

I used to partake in a programm about improving rhetoric-skills and the teacher used to analyze Hitlers speeches for learning purposes. Is it wrong to learn from Hitler speaking patterns, even though he was propably the most evil man in the 20th century? I guess not.
 

Edited July 27, 2022 by undeather

[Razard86]

32 minutes ago, hyruga said:

Tate has undergone several reality programs and showed how demonstrated real leadership in this programs. Name 5 self help leaders who participated in reality shows?

Tate has won MMA championships and been through victories and losses. Tate understood the dangers of losing his life, his ego, his eyes in a fight and had mentioned all these several times. Name 5 self help gurus who understand the dangers of fighting and have real life experiences to show for them?

How many self help leaders have led a more intense life than Tate does? So if they led less intense lives, most of them essentially contributed little to self help anyway. All the Brian Tracy, john Maxwell are essentially copying from the past generations. What they have contributed anyway? Let alone all the new speakers like alpha.m, Joseph rodriguez. None of them offered anything more intense than Tate and most of them is not original anyway so everyone should just close shop and pretend Youtube does not exist just like how it was 40 years ago?

1. Did you really just mention reality shows?....Seriously man....that is a low bar, reality T.V......if you only knew how reality shows are actually constructed. sighhhhh

2. Tate has won MMA championships. Tate has understood the dangers of losing his life. This is easy, there are actually many guys like that and guess what? Many of them would be scared shitless to even contend with a psychedelic. I literally posted Mike Tyson videos for a reason on this forum, all must bow before the glory of the divine. I don't give a damn if you survived an explosion, a mystic would be far braver than some MMA fighter. I've been in fights for my life personally and I know guys who fight MMA. I have deep respect for them, but guess what? Many of them would run from a psychedelic experience and chicken out. Tate is so consumed by fear he cannot even relate emotionally with any women!!! He cannot form a deep connection because he is afraid of heartbreak and betrayal!! So why should I care if a guy is not afraid to face death, he is afraid to face LIFE!!! That is why he finds facing death so fun! 

3. Intense? Which is more intense? Dissolving into infinity? Or fighting a guy in a ring?  

 

Yall all making me laugh!!

I have been in more fights than any of you would believe. Winning fights is just an experience. Everything is just an experience. I used to be in the military. Its just an experience. Everything is just an experience. 

But I'll give you two guys who are self-help that fit your bill.

David Goggins, and Jocko. They are healthy versions of Masculine Empowerment. If you want to talk about toughness Tate has never done anything as tough or dangerous as them. And guess what? A psychedelic would still scare the shit outta them. Life is just a mind game. The greatest strength is mastery of mind. Could you face annihilation, realizing you are nothing ultimately, and yet still be able to function? A guy like Tate if he discovered God and the ultimate nature of reality right now, would probably become nihilistic. 

I don't seek fake strength in guys like Tate. Seek to become the man that nothing can bother him, nothing disturbs his peace. The strongest man is the one with no fear. Fear is the only thing you are fighting in life, and fear is you. 

 

[undeather]

Quote

David Goggins, and Jocko. They are healthy versions of Masculine Empowerment

100% agree. 

[Nilsi]

2 hours ago, undeather said:

Thats a lot of whataboutism and irrelevant objections.

Nobody (in the right mind) ever said that Tate is an innocent role model for modern musculinity. I am sure he has done some really evil stuff in his life but thats not the point. Also, what the hell are those comparisons - we are talking about mindset/self-help and achievement ...and achieving a world-title in a martial art gives you a lot of weight in those categories. Yes, winning wimbledon or being an astronaut would indicate a certain pattern of being which undoudebtly puts you in a position of having something to teach. And thats exactly our argument ....

I used to partake in a programm about improving rhetoric-skills and the teacher used to analyze Hitlers speeches for learning purposes. Is it wrong to learn from Hitler speaking patterns, even though he was propably the most evil man in the 20th century? I guess not.
 

You are right of course. It's interesting to me that I have such a knee jerk reaction against the guy. I just listened to some talks of his, and I definitely notice myself wanting to dismiss him and getting triggered. He exposes some uncomfortable truths and I actually appreciate that. I'm still a bit unsure what to make of this; take it as evidence that our system is fucked or bite the bullet and cultivate some raw power. I guess it's really both anyways. What definitely resonated with me was him saying "If you're not rich, you're either lazy, arrogant or stupid." Can't really argue with that. Interesting guy, I definitely have some shadow work to do here.

[Carl-Richard]

@zurew It's one thing to know these things intellectually. It's another to connect with that impulse. I've always known I've been lacking in some areas, but I've never truly felt a strong drive towards those areas either. That's what the strong lights are for. They're a clear embodiment of the type of energy you need to get there, and you can tap into it and feel it move your body.

[Consept]

8 hours ago, zurew said:

I think some questions could be asked  to test how much we have integrated the healthy aspects of stage red and orange:

• Do you have financial problems?
• Do you know what you are good at ?
• Do you know how you could provide massive value?
• Do you consider yourself successful (whatever success means to you)
• Do you have the capability to stand up for yourself and for your values?
• Do you have a job/business that you are passionate about / that you like
• Do you have a hard time expressing yourself authentically?
• Do you have the capability to take a leading role if its necessary / if its needed?
• Do you have a strong charisma?
• Do you have a healthy self esteem?
• Do you have your relationship goals met?
• Do you have a good sex life?
• How much can you sacrifice to reach your desires/goals?
• Can you consciously motivate yourself?
• Can you set tangible goals?
• Do you have a plan where your life is going or you are just living aimlessly in life?
• Do you have the capability to be highly rational if its needed / if its necessary?

This is actually gold, unless these a sorted out i feel like youre going to run into problems if you try and skip them 

[Razard86]

37 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

If you're not rich, you're either lazy, arrogant or stupid." Can't really argue with that. Interesting guy, I definitely have some shadow work to do here.

Oh really? Then here is the next question for you. What is rich? What does that mean. I'm interested to see your answer.

 

[zurew]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

@zurew It's one thing to know these things intellectually. It's another to connect with that impulse. I've always known I've been lacking in some areas, but I've never truly felt driven towards those areas either. That's what the strong lights are for. They're a clear embodiment of the type of energy you need to get there, and you can tap into that and feel it move your body.

Yeah, i can resonate with this 100%. I think its almost always harder to motivate yourself to go back to the roots, rather than trying to go forward on the foundation you already have. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by zurew

[Nilsi]

3 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Oh really? Then here is the next question for you. What is rich? What does that mean. I'm interested to see your answer.

 

Well this is obviously meant in a very narrow context, as in "having a shitton of money." As for Richness with a capital R, that's a whole other story and I think you probably have a sense by now what I consider a Rich life.

But even there, his claim still holds. I know one of my biggest issues is arrogance and it's definitely taking away from the Richness i could experience if I got over it.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Nilsi

[undeather]

3 hours ago, Nilsi said:

You are right of course. It's interesting to me that I have such a knee jerk reaction against the guy. I just listened to some talks of his, and I definitely notice myself wanting to dismiss him and getting triggered. He exposes some uncomfortable truths and I actually appreciate that. I'm still a bit unsure what to make of this; take it as evidence that our system is fucked or bite the bullet and cultivate some raw power. I guess it's really both anyways. What definitely resonated with me was him saying "If you're not rich, you're either lazy, arrogant or stupid." Can't really argue with that. Interesting guy, I definitely have some shadow work to do here.

Having knee jerk reactions is completely normal - I have them, you have them and so does the rest of the world.
The shadow work happens when you recognize the reactionary energy and use it for a deeper inquiry. Thats exactly what you just did.
Way to go!

[Carl-Richard]

@zurew The last couple of years I've been working on identifying and expressing emotions when they arise. I used to be super-agreeable and would hide emotions like anger. Now I see those emotions as tools to stand up for myself, but they're defensive and reactive rather than proactive. This energy I'm talking about is more like a drive which is always there. It's assertive in a forward-moving sense. It's the energy that makes you approach a girl, or address a conflict, or claim what is yours.

[Razard86]

45 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

But even there, his claim still holds. I know one of my biggest issues is arrogance and it's definitely taking away from the Richness i could experience if I got over it.

You still didn't answer my question. But I will propose a premise. This statement by you is profound it shows you have the ability to look at yourself and evaluate your shortcomings. It shows maturity, and honesty. How many people in your life have you come across who are able to make statements like these? 

After you give me your answer I ask again....what is rich?

By the way there is no right or wrong answer...so don't feel pigeon-holed and speak freely.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Razard86

[Nilsi]

Just now, Razard86 said:

You still didn't answer my question. But I will propose a premise. This statement by you is profound it shows you have the ability to look at yourself and evaluate your shortcomings. It shows maturity, and honesty. How many people in your life have you come across who are able to make statements like these? 

After you give me your answer I ask again....what is rich?

If you insist. To me a rich life would include having a passionate and meaningful career (I won't bother to specify this further), having great relationships (friends, family, intimate relationships), living on my edge, proactively seeking new experiences, travelling to foreign places, making space to just be with the raw experience of being alive, constantly learning new stuff. Ya, probably not an exhaustive list, but you should get a sense of it. Being financially well off is not one of my main priorities and it wouldn't make or break anything but I still don't want to react against it and it's definitely nice to be able to afford some luxuries now and again and spoil your girl a bit.