@Leo why are you posting this on Instagram?

[undeather]

I am not so much concered about Leo's wellbeing because his replies on instagram and here on the forum are still pretty coherent. 

What's a bit irritating, to me at least, is his choice of public representation. As one of the big self-help/spiritual content creators you inevitebly take on some form of being a role model for your followers. Of course people will be interested in how Leo's life looks like - he is the one teaching you how to improve yours. After all, why would you want to follow someones advice if the person sharing it isnt at a mature level of embodiment and integrity. Why would I take anything Leo shares seriously, especially  if there is a clear asymmetry between the quality of his life and the content he puts out? Now, here is where his recent instagram-posts come in. Its not that those are major red flags - but they do show some level of disconnection. Yes, its propably part of an DMT-aftermath, but thats a pretty empty excuse anyway - for obvious reasons.

I also have to admit that this is not the first time I start feeling this way...
It just doesnt fit the picture in my head of what an actualized person looks like and how he/she acts in this world. I have met many individuals who I would consider very fulfilled in their developement - who have figured their shit out and also share many great insights on the way. There is a certain grace & virtuosity in their vibe ...its undeniable and this is what I am kind of missing from Leo.

That said, I dont know Leo and he could be amazing. Its just the impression I get from him sometimes...

And no, this has nothing to do with being uber-conscious or above the madness. Its a simple question about relatability between a teacher and his audience. In fact, Leo demoted Nahm for this exact reason just a few weeks ago. This kind of argumentation is completely ridicolous.

Again, I am not writing this to bash him - but as a long time follower (joined at ~5k subscribers) who usually apprechiates his point of view quiet a lot, its a bit strange to say at least. 

Edited July 28, 2022 by undeather

[thenondualtankie]

@OBEler Not really on-topic but how is low testosterone not a justification for taking steroids? Steroids aren't really something to be too concerned about in my opinion. If they benefit your life then they benefit your life. For the vast majority of people, steroids aren't a good option but that doesn't mean it's universally the incorrect choice for everyone.

[Socrates]

let the guy express himself and stop being weirdos lmao ???

[OBEler]

@thenondualtankie lol you dont hit a massive dose of testosteron in your body (250 mg per week) for just compensating low dose testo. And Look at his muscles, I See these muscles come from too much testosteron in his body. He even became acne. He is a heavy steroids User. 

 

 

 

. 

 

 

[OBEler]

@undeather maybe Leo dont like people like you who cannot differentiate between content and the Person who delivers the content. 

Leo is more in just pure content and not about his Person. Also you should question everything what he says so that He will not be your guru in your eyes. This is just healthy

[ZenAlex]

55 minutes ago, Brivido said:

The rationalizations I have been reading to justify Leo's rampage posting on Instagram are disconcerting. 

Some of you will still justify his behaviour even if he uploads a video in which he beheads puppies, by saying that this must be a new way he's trying to awake you.

You don't need a psychology degree to understand that what he was doing was ungrounded.

If a friend of yours, which you know is a frequent psychedelic user, suddenly starts posting ungrounded pictures on social media, every two hours, and in one of the pictures was even holding a gun, you should be worried and not rationalize and justify his behaviour. He's your friend, you want to help him.

I have been studying self improvement and spirituality for over 10 years and I have made the "crazy" discovery that there is no perfect teacher and no perfect human being. So I am not judging Leo.

Please, Leo I will respect you way more if you will just be honest and say that you went on a psychedelic binge that got out of hand, instead of trying to justify your behaviour with things such as: 

You have built an incredible community over the years, we care about you and we are here to help, but please don't try to bullshit us. You taught us how to recognize self-deception after all.

Something good can actually come out of this, you can show your vulnerable side and become more relatable. 

How dare you sir.

[Brenzo2]

I thought Leo's posts were more authentic than most of the shit i see posted on Instagram? I don't know why people think he has gone crazy, just seems like the social matrix gone crazy ahaha. 

How can you judge Leo without knowing him? All this outrage about his insta posts seems crazy to me. ?

[Brenzo2]

26 minutes ago, undeather said:

It just doesnt fit the picture in my head of what an actualized person looks like and how he/she acts in this world. 

Then maybe your idea of an actualized person needs some work. He's just posting on instagram and expressing himself.

An Actualized person may not care to censor themselves regardless of which position you think they may hold.

If he wished to post these things what is wrong with that, I dont understand?

If you need a nice, cookie-cut, role model then there are many you could find! Leo is definitely not that and never pretends to be. 

I think so anyways

[undeather]

1 minute ago, OBEler said:

@undeather maybe Leo dont like people like you who cannot differentiate between content and the Person who delivers the content. 

Leo is more in just pure content and not about his Person. Also you should question everything what he says so that He will not be your guru in your eyes. This is just healthy

No, I completely disagree.
When it comes to self-help, you can NEVER seperate the person and the content. After all, it's the person who profits from the work - its the good old waking up, growing up and showing up process Ken Wilber has been talking about for ages. The life you live, the character you reap and the insights you gain will at the end influence the person you become - its a direct function of it.

If a guy teaches you how to overcome procrastination, then he better not be a procrastinator - but rather someone who overcame this obstacle. Now as I said - I am not accusing him of anything - I just critiqued his representation.  

[undeather]

19 minutes ago, Brenzo2 said:

Then maybe your idea of an actualized person needs some work. He's just posting on instagram and expressing himself.

An Actualized person may not care to censor themselves regardless of which position you think they may hold.

If he wished to post these things what is wrong with that, I dont understand?

If you need a nice, cookie-cut, role model then there are many you could find! Leo is definitely not that and never pretends to be. 

I think so anyways

And if Leo runs down the highway with just his underwear on, is this also a pattern of self expression?
Look, I get what you mean and its a decent point - but can you see the other side as well? I had 3 people messaging me on instagram that day, who thought Leo lost his mind. I guess you can always subjectify your version of an actualized person towards an unachievable standard of eccentricity, but thats not the point. 

How do you know its self expression and not just delusion after all? You (propably) dont know him either. Those posts are odd and dont fit with his usual pattern of representation.As a public spiritual teacher with a huge audience, there is  a smart and grown up way to deal with such issues. Of course you can go full "expression mode" and do whatever - However, I can already tell that he lost some people right there. If this is what he really wants to do, then fine ....

There is a difference between individuated expression of someones own identity and repulsive craziness. 

Edited July 28, 2022 by undeather

[Asayake]

I don't like the posing with a gun while high picture but the other pictures are no problem for me. I just don't like the idea of guns + psychedelics.. even if the gun is not loaded it sends off a weird message.

[decentralized]

Where is the picture with the gun? 

[Phil777]

1 hour ago, Brivido said:

The rationalizations I have been reading to justify Leo's rampage posting on Instagram are disconcerting. 

Some of you will still justify his behaviour even if he uploads a video in which he beheads puppies, by saying that this must be a new way he's trying to awake you.

You don't need a psychology degree to understand that what he was doing was ungrounded.

If a friend of yours, which you know is a frequent psychedelic user, suddenly starts posting ungrounded pictures on social media, every two hours, and in one of the pictures was even holding a gun, you should be worried and not rationalize and justify his behaviour. He's your friend, you want to help him.

I have been studying self improvement and spirituality for over 10 years and I have made the "crazy" discovery that there is no perfect teacher and no perfect human being. So I am not judging Leo.

Please, Leo I will respect you way more if you will just be honest and say that you went on a psychedelic binge that got out of hand, instead of trying to justify your behaviour with things such as: 

You have built an incredible community over the years, we care about you and we are here to help, but please don't try to bullshit us. You taught us how to recognize self-deception after all.

Something good can actually come out of this, you can show your vulnerable side and become more relatable. 

Beheading puppies? Are you out of your mind dude? I am speechless.

Don't try to make him admit something that you are projecting onto him.

This is not empathy. This is not trying to understand him. This is forcing him into your conception of who he is.

[something_else]

49 minutes ago, Brenzo2 said:

I thought Leo's posts were more authentic than most of the shit i see posted on Instagram? I don't know why people think he has gone crazy, just seems like the social matrix gone crazy ahaha. 

How can you judge Leo without knowing him? All this outrage about his insta posts seems crazy to me. ?

If you are going to use a certain social media platform, you are kind of expected to conform to its social matrix.

For example is it authenticity if you walk around naked in the street? I mean, technically yes, but it is not in the least bit grounded or sane and people would be correct to question your sanity for doing that

A lot of what Leo posted on Instagram was similar in that it did not conform to how people normally use the site, which is probably why it came across so bizarre and concerning to a lot of people

Authenticity is good, but you still gotta follow the limits of whatever medium you are using or you appear really ungrounded and out of touch

7 minutes ago, decentralized said:

Where is the picture with the gun? 

I assume it got taken down, don't know by who or why

Edited July 28, 2022 by something_else

[Asayake]

3 minutes ago, decentralized said:

Where is the picture with the gun? 

Looks like he removed it, I guess he realized it was a bit off putting. It was just him posing with a gun in one of his hands and dilated pupils, obviously high on some psychedelic.

[Phil777]

@something_else You need to check yourself big time. somone posts a picture in their underwear and is therefore insane? How stuck up are you excactly? You are encroaching on Leo as a being with a desire for self expression.

[Brenzo2]

45 minutes ago, undeather said:

No, I completely disagree.
When it comes to self-help, you can NEVER seperate the person and the content. After all, it's the person who profits from the work - its the good old waking up, growing up and showing up process Ken Wilber has been talking about for ages. The life you live, the character you reap and the insights you gain will at the end influence the person you become - its a direct function of it.

If a guy teaches you how to overcome procrastination, then he better not be a procrastinator - but rather someone who overcame this obstacle. Now as I said - I am not accusing him of anything - I just critiqued his representation.  

The guy who teaches you how to overcome procrastination is the guy who still sometimes succumbs to procrastination.

[decentralized]

@Asayake oh my fuck that's really disturbing. The guy definitely needs some help. 

[something_else]

13 minutes ago, Phil777 said:

@something_else You need to check yourself big time. somone posts a picture in their underwear and is therefore insane? How stuck up are you excactly? You are encroaching on Leo as a being with a desire for self expression.

Posting a stream of half naked pics, a pic with a gun, and some random high selfies at home over the course of a couple hours (without any context) looks more like insanity than sanity

Especially given Leo's generally pretty grounded personality. Add to this the fact that Leo takes a fuck ton of psychedelics, and that people in the spirituality/self-help community have a tendency to go off the rails or even commit suicide, and it doesn't paint a great picture

If it was one of your friends who did not normally behave like this then you would definitely be very concerned. I'm not even trying to suggest people should have been concerned for him as much as I'm suggesting people were justified to feel weirded out by it

Anyway, it's clearly not insanity. I think it was more a case of being out of touch with how instagram is typically used more than anything

Edited July 28, 2022 by something_else

[Phil777]

10 minutes ago, something_else said:

Posting a stream of half naked pics, a pic with a gun, and some random high selfies at home over the course of a couple hours (without any context) looks more like insanity than sanity

Especially given Leo's generally pretty grounded personality. Add to this the fact that Leo takes a fuck ton of psychedelics, and that people in the spirituality/self-help community have a tendency to go off the rails or even commit suicide, and it doesn't paint a great picture

If it was one of your friends who did not normally behave like this then you would definitely be very concerned. I'm not even trying to suggest people should have been concerned for him as much as I'm suggesting people were justified to feel weirded out by it

Anyway, it's clearly not insanity. I think it was more a case of being out of touch with how instagram is typically used more than anything

How Instagram is typically used... This is relative. You can do whatever you want to, do you understand? You are projecting a lot of normal/weird dichotomy, a lot of shoulds and shouldn'ts and a lot of "fake it to appear proper". If Leo want's to be a goofball on instagram, that's entirely his decision. he doesn't owe us even a bit of consistency. He has provided immense value to us and we should be happy if he choses to do something different on the side. It's not even a big deal. he posted a bunch of goofy ass pictures. Cool, funny, didn't expect it. You go Leo

Yeah sure check in on him but don't project your insecurities, relative judgements and social constructs onto him. Let the men be wild and free.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Phil777