How to wake up?

[Questioner]

So I now understand from watching Leo's video that I am dreaming and that no-one in this world (including you) is conscious or experiencing anything. So my question now is how do I wake up back to my actual reality?  Feel like I've been left high and dry. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Questioner

[Jaccobtw]

Psychedelics: 5 meo malt or 5 meo dmt

[CuriousityIsKey]

Excuse me what? 

I am the conscious one, here lol, either I am consious or you are consious. But I don't need to trust your words, because I can expirue ce right now being consious. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by CuriousityIsKey

[thisintegrated]

Umm, I kinda made a thread about this.  On the same subforum, the thread just under this one iirc.

[Questioner]

@CuriousityIsKey

Then why did he tell me I'm dreaming?

[CuriousityIsKey]

8 minutes ago, Questioner said:

@CuriousityIsKey

Then why did he tell me I'm dreaming?

If I say you have 9 billion dollars,  is it true? 

 

Who or what decides what's true? Lol. Think .

Edited July 24, 2022 by CuriousityIsKey

[Consilience]

2 hours ago, Jaccobtw said:

Psychedelics: 5 meo malt or 5 meo dmt

If you’re looking for a peak experiences that come and go, this.

Otherwise, thousands of hours of meditation, working with teachers, meditation retreats.
 

If you want even faster results, both simultaneously can be helpful. 

[Breakingthewall]

@Questioner 3 things: the first, deconstruct your mental structure. rethink all your certainties, how to understand where they come from, understand the attachment and fear that is in you, your need for mental grips.

the second, meditation. sit for hours with yourself in silence. It may seem sterile at first, but it is essential. little by little you will begin to understand yourself, to be at peace and to be happy without the need for anything external, perhaps 1 year of daily practice to really achieve it.

3, psychedelics. mushrooms to delve into your psyche, swim in your trauma and unravel the energetic lines that make up your being. 5 meo to erase you, to be absolute for a moment. this goes beyond any explanation since explanations include relativity. This is the real key. Being absolute without this is almost impossible unless you are a natural místic.

These 3 steps are not in order, the first two have to be something fundamental and a priority for you. you have to do them almost compulsively. you have to really want to escape the trap of the ego. For that, you first have to realized what is that trap. the psychedelics, intuitively when you see that it is the moment. 2 times per month I would say that it is a good ratio. It will be difficult at first, at least for me it was. The results deserve any effort. Are the real freedom. Anything else is misery

[Consilience]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Being absolute without this is almost impossible unless you are a natural místic.

Or have arranged your life to be solely focused on contemplative practice. You pretty much need to monasticize you’re entire life and it will still take years. A lifetime even. 

However, the nice part about pushing manual practice to such an extreme is that it truly is good in beginning, good in the middle, and good in the end.

Even if one were to fail at making it to the complete absolute, totally enlightened as though on 5MeO, their life would be exponentially more meaningful than what is “normal” AND, the training will have an impact on the karmic conditions driving one’s next life. Ie practicing hard in this life really helps in the future, and in future lives. 

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, Consilience said:

the training will have an impact on the karmic conditions driving one’s next life. 

What next life ?

[Consilience]

16 minutes ago, Someone here said:

What next life ?

Anywhere from the next moment, to what occurs when the physical body completely decays and dies.

[VeganAwake]

28 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Even if one were to fail at making it to the complete absolute, totally enlightened

You can't fail bro because this is already everything. 

Which includes all the practices and the experience that someone is getting closer to the absolute.

Enlightenment reveals there never was an individual in which could be closer or further away from everything!!

❤ 

 

[Consilience]

@VeganAwake what you’re describing is more like the nature of enlightenment, not what Im referring to in my post. 

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Anywhere from the next moment, to what occurs when the physical body completely decays and dies.

Nah the next moment until you die is this life .you were talking about a life after physical death of the Current body .

And the only evidence is what, just hope ?

My view is less, "there is no next life ," and more, "who knows."

For example..If you imagine you had never slept before and someone tried to explain what dreaming is, it would sound crazy. There would be no concrete evidence for or against it, except what other people say about it. This comparison falls apart in that people sleep and dream every night and can tell each other about it afterwards, but with death that simply isn't the case. 

Again, I'm not trying to argue for or against the existence of an afterlife. I just want to point out that in matters where you can't quantifiably measure things, matters like next life  souls, and afterlifes, you can't prove or disprove things.

[Consilience]

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Nah the next moment until you die is this life .you were talking about a life after physical death of the Current body .

And the only evidence is what, just hope ?

My view is less, "there is no next life ," and more, "who knows."

For example..If you imagine you had never slept before and someone tried to explain what dreaming is, it would sound crazy. There would be no concrete evidence for or against it, except what other people say about it. This comparison falls apart in that people sleep and dream every night and can tell each other about it afterwards, but with death that simply isn't the case. 

Again, I'm not trying to argue for or against the existence of an afterlife. I just want to point out that in matters where you can't quantifiably measure things, matters like next life  souls, and afterlifes, you can't prove or disprove things.

Fair enough.
 

Actually it’s not driven by hope. If one were to open up completely to the magnitude of collective suffering and logically examine how much more likely a life filled with significant amounts of suffering is compared to a life where one can be in a position to walk the spiritual path, hope in an afterlife is no longer tenable. It’s more like horror and deep appreciation for the preciousness of one’s current life. 
 

Anyways, my reasoning for there being rebirth comes from having direct experiences of past lives that held the same emotional tonality/familiarity of normal memory and therefore, ontologically, they would hold just as much authority as the reality of memory.

In addition to these very palpable direct experiences, to think consciousness could not spontaneously appear again like it has for this life is a very odd argument (unless you’re a materialist). It already happened once, this is a data point. Why wouldn’t it happen again? What was the driving mechanism behind the spontaneous emergence of conscious experience appearing at all and why would this mechanism suddenly stop after the physical body dies? The logic holds no real power in my view. I already know conscious experience can appear, but I have no direct experience of consciousness permanently ending. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Consilience

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Fair enough.
 

Actually it’s not driven by hope. If one were to open up completely to the magnitude of collective suffering and logically examine how much more likely a life filled with significant amounts of suffering is compared to a life where one can be in a position to walk the spiritual path, hope in an afterlife is no longer tenable. It’s more like horror and deep appreciation for the preciousness of one’s current life. 
 

Anyways, my reasoning for there being rebirth comes from having direct experiences of past lives that held the same emotional tonality/familiarity of normal memory and therefore, ontologically, they would hold just as much authority as the reality of memory.

In addition to these very palpable direct experiences, to think consciousness could not spontaneously appear again like it has for this life is a very odd argument (unless you’re a materialist). It already happened once, this is a data point. Why wouldn’t it happen again? What was the driving mechanism behind the spontaneous emergence of conscious experience appearing at all and why would this mechanism suddenly stop after the physical body dies? The logic holds no real power in my view. I already know conscious experience can appear, but I have no direct experience of consciousness permanently ending. 

I wouldn't consider myself a materialist .even though I've got some orange shadow to integrate.

 I like to appeal to science for such issues.  Of course you don't have an experience of consciousness ending or not upon dying..why?  Because you are still alive!  Duh ! The only way to know is by actually dying.

But at least we can measure brain activity. We can measure signs of life. Death causes these to stop. There is no measurable thing that suggests any other kind of activity continues after death. Sure, you can't prove there's no afterlife, but that's the default position , so unless an afterlife can actually be proven to exist, the "only evidence against it" is now everything we know as the practice and study of statistics. The fact that there is no evidence in favor of it is precisely why the doubt exists. The doubt is not the evidence against it.

Somewhat more facetiously, but shorter: I can't prove there are no invisible leprechauns playing in my room right now, but that doesn't make both this belief and its disbelief equally plausible.

To those who do believe in an afterlife, I won't tell you to stop believing. You have every right to believe what you want, and I support that right. I'm explaining here why I disagree with that position.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

Or have arranged your life to be solely focused on contemplative practice. You pretty much need to monasticize you’re entire life and it will still take years. A lifetime even. 

Yes, sure it's possible, But why do something that is not the most practical, fast and easy? only by vocation. that is, for loving the road more than the destination. it's not my case. I have another vocation, a job that I love, and many other things that I also like, so the renunciation would be very forced and surely it would not work. I would end up frustrated and in the dark. So I'm on the fast way. and it turns out that it works perfectly. They are not just flashes at peak moments. It happens, you became, and after you stay .... how is possible? what was that? Indescribable... (at least me, it has only happened to me 3 times and vaping 5meo) but that creates an opening in your being that lasts a while. let's say in my case about 10 days. 10 days of silence, connection, openness, joy. then the mind begins to do its thing again and you return to the loops of thought, but always less than before the opening. I know this sounds very artificial and even drug addicted, but... I don't see any other option. Anytime i did i have the feeling that the thing is so revolutionary, so different to the normal state, that without that would be absolutely impossible. The barrier that you are is perfectly placed.

anyway, my knowledge is superficial. in the future I will be able to speak with more knowledge about the consequences of this.

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Consilience]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, sure it's possible, But why do something that is not the most practical, fast and easy? only by vocation. that is, for loving the road more than the destination. it's not my case. I have another vocation, a job that I love, and many other things that I also like, so the renunciation would be very forced and surely it would not work.

A couple of points.

1) I agree, not easy at all.

2) I disagree, in a sense it is fast but that requires understanding how. It’s fast in the sense that at some point the meditative training outcomes hit an inflection point, and results start compounding and becoming non-linear. Shinzen talks about this and it has been my experience. Most of my meditation sessions now feel like anywhere from light, medium, or heavy microdose of LSD/mushrooms, except significantly more clear. Honestly glad they don’t feel like full blown trips but with the way things are going, not sure what another 10 years of rigorous practice will bring. 

However to reiterate, this level of intensity, Ive realized, is unusual and has not been easy to maintain. 

3) Yes absolutely cherishing the road is part of it. Part of it is also realizing the deep inseparability, the deep unity of the path and the destination. As VeganAwake described, there actually is no difference in the highest sense. This must be faced, acknowledged and honored. When doing so, the beauty of walking the path and the end merge into one. This is the nature of truth, it was always exactly itself, absolutely. 
 

4) yes if you love your job and in general, your life, renunciation may not be a good idea. It most likely would not work unless it’s coming from a deep place of authenticity. However, in the Buddhist tradition there are numerous examples of householders becoming more enlightened than monastics. The yearning for truth matters most, which I have no doubt you see. 

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Consilience said:

The yearning for truth matters most, which I have no doubt you see. 

Yeah, of course. knowing that there is an absolute truth, and living blind to it is total madness that I cannot understand. if there were no tools like the ones that exist, who knows if I would prioritize realizing that truth before anything else. But those tools exist. the power of 5 meo is enormous. With my way of being, my mental configuration, it has cost me a lot to be able to do it. and even now vaping large quantities the became absolute has been a matter of 1 minute, but the difference between that and nothing is a lifetime, and little by little it's being easier. I'm only in the begging. What Leo says about the depth of his trips is true. It goes beyond anything imaginable. anyone can do that, you just have to want it.

this does not underestimate the monastic path of the meditator who wants to be immaculate. I think they are compatible things. I would say that the monk wants to dedicate his life to being an empty vessel in which the absolute manifests itself, and sure his happiness would be greater than the one who is in the world, and that one who is in the world wants to give all of himself to this world and receive the most from it, since this world exists. Why to loose the chance? Even if there is unhappiness in the way. Unhappiness is divine too

Edited July 24, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Consilience]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

would say that the monk wants to dedicate his life to being an empty vessel in which the absolute manifests itself, and sure his happiness would be greater than the one who is in the world, and that one who is in the world wants to give all of himself to this world and receive the most from it, since this world exists. Why to loose the chance?

Usually it comes from dispassion, or disillusionment with the world. The monk understands, deeply, that the world does not provide happiness, lasting satisfaction, fulfillment, and certainly not truth. Assuming one even has a life worth “receiving the most from” it still wouldn’t bring the happiness of the self. Moreover, most humans alive today and throughout history have lived very harsh and sometimes brutal lives filled with suffering. And then you combine this with the possibility of rebirth and suddenly the monk sees how fleeting this opportunity for serious practice is. Once this life ends, it’s up in the air how long it will be until the opportunity to walk the spiritual path is. But doing practices that actually, permanently rewire the mind is available now and has karmic momentum for the future.