Amazing tier 2 explanation about the limits and traps of Vedanta

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, axiom said:

it could be said that the true cause was the Big Bang

I see your point here.

But what if i asked u what causes quenching of thirst, would u say water or big bang? Bc both answers are true ultimately. But to say water quenches the thirst is much more practical imo. 

In the same manner i would say spiritual practices cause shift in indentity from false to real, not the big bang ?  tho technically both answers are acceptable in a way.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Salvijus

[axiom]

6 hours ago, Salvijus said:

@axiom So what in your opinion causes the shift in perception and identity from mind-body to pure witness if not spiritual practice? Didn't u have your insight while doing vipassana? Doesn't that prove the whole point?

The dreamer stirs in its sleep, then wakes up. It's grace. 

It wasn't Vipassana that caused awakening. That was part of the story.

If the dream character believes the story causes things to happen, then it may be reassured to find itself on a Vipassana retreat. After all, in the story, a Vipassana retreat seems to lead to awakening or at least consciousness expansion. Sometimes.

In the same way, taking 5MEO and experiencing God realisation has nothing to do with 5MEO. 5MEO is just a story you're telling yourself.

All experience is a story - nothing more, nothing less.

Take simply breathing for example. Focus on it long enough, and the sense that it's something you're doing intentionally will begin to emerge. The self really wants to take credit for everything.

Edited July 20, 2022 by axiom

[Inliytened1]

No self and God realization are the same thing.  If it's enlightenment. When you realize  no self there is nothing else but God and you become it.    There are realizations that can come shortly afer -aspects of the Absolute  - such as realizing that other is and was always you.  That it was your imagination.     All religions and spiritual BS such as neo-advaita are just hand me downs to actual awakening.

[axiom]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

No self and God realization are the same thing.  If it's enlightenment. When you realize  no self there is nothing else but God and you become it.    There are realizations that can come shortly afer -aspects of the Absolute  - such as realizing that other is and was always you.  That it was your imagination.     All religions and spiritual BS such as neo-advaita are just hand me downs to actual awakening.

Yes, it seems to me that no-self and God realisation are the same thing. That is how it feels at least. Leo suggests that they are different, I think?

I don't really know what is meant by neo-advaita. It seems that many (or most) here dismiss advaita though.

[Inliytened1]

20 minutes ago, axiom said:

Yes, it seems to me that no-self and God realisation are the same thing. That is how it feels at least. Leo suggests that they are different, I think?

I don't really know what is meant by neo-advaita. It seems that many (or most) here dismiss advaita though.

I can just tell you that they are.  And this is without psychedelics.   Psychedelics will show you bits and pieces of awakening - apparently.   But waking up from a dream means who wakes up?  When you are dreaming you are a butterfly and then you wake up to realize you were not what are you but the Dreamer itself?  Neo-advaita is a conceptual belief in no self.  It is not waking up from the dream.

[axiom]

23 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I can just tell you that they are.  And this is without psychedelics.   Psychedelics will show you bits and pieces of awakening - apparently.   But waking up from a dream means who wakes up?  When you are dreaming you are a butterfly and then you wake up to realize you were not what are you but the Dreamer itself?  Neo-advaita is a conceptual belief in no self.  It is not waking up from the dream.

Agree with everything you say here. I hadn't realised though that Neo-Advaita was essentially religious thinking in that sense. 

I have had completely Earth-shattering experiences on psychedelics. I have also had Earth-shattering experiences with Vipassana, but quite opposite types of experience. The latter I can't really call an experience per se because the experiencer was gone.

On a related note, have you come across this: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FXQ38-ZQK0&t=30s

Read through this list as it plays: 

“Bart Simpson bouncing”

“Rotating pirate ship”

“That isn’t my receipt”

“Lobsters in motion”

“That is embarrassing”

“Lactates in pharmacy”

“I’m chasing Martian”

“Baptism piracy”

“That isn’t mercy”

Edited July 20, 2022 by axiom

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, axiom said:

Agree with everything you say here. I hadn't realised though that Neo-Advaita was essentially religious thinking in that sense. 

I have had completely Earth-shattering experiences on psychedelics. I have also had Earth-shattering experiences with Vipassana, but quite opposite types of experience. The latter I can't really call an experience per se because the experiencer was gone.

You are close but you haven't evaded the dream.  The dream is evasive.   But don't despair.  There will be no one to tell you evaded when you do.  There will be only you.   So you'll just play the games.  You'll play games to stay in the dream.  And believe me, you are a master.

[axiom]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You are close but you haven't evaded the dream. 

This is impossible to know by definition

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

The dream is evasive.   But don't despair. 

The dream is everything, literally.

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You'll play games to stay in the dream.  And belive me, you ate a master.

Actually I just ate a pizza. I chopped up some spring onions and scattered them over the top... and if I do say so myself, it was a pretty good combo... but may not be to everyone's taste of course. 

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, axiom said:

This is impossible to know by definition

The dream is everything, literally.

Actually I just ate a pizza. I chopped up some spring onions and scattered them over the top... and if I do say so myself, it was a pretty good combo... but may not be to everyone's taste of course. 

no one wants to wake up.

It will take extreme suffering or a thirst for Truth that surpasses all egoic desires.  Leo was not gifted.  But he found Truth because he thirsted for it and he put it in front of his own egoic desires.  His thirst for Truth surpassed his own survival.  This is what it will take.  

[axiom]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

no one wants to wake up.

It will take extreme suffering or a thirst for Truth that surpasses all egoic desires.  Leo was not gifted.  But he found Truth because he thirsted for it and he put it in front of his own egoic desires.  His thirst for Truth surpassed his own survival.  This is what it will take.  

Wow -

Me... me... me again! 

Actually, kidding aside - the life story of this character was one of extraordinary suffering. Poor me. 

This seems to be extremely relevant to the character of course. It imbues all of its hardship and all of its seeking with profound meaning.

But it's just a story. 

[Breakingthewall]

38 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

no one wants to wake up.

It will take extreme suffering or a thirst for Truth that surpasses all egoic desires.  Leo was not gifted.  But he found Truth because he thirsted for it and he put it in front of his own egoic desires.  His thirst for Truth surpassed his own survival.  This is what it will take.  

Requires being smart. the ego is a trap. the smart person realizes that. then look for the exit to the trap, at whatever price. What kind of crazy person would accept living in a trap that encloses you deeper every day? the result will be increasing suffering. no more is needed to make the decision to get out of there. if the trap is broken, freedom remains. anything other than that is misery. 

 

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Requires being smart. the ego is a trap. the smart person realizes that. then look for the exit to the trap, at whatever price. What kind of crazy person would accept living in a trap that encloses you deeper every day? the result will be increasing suffering. no more is needed to make the decision to get out of there. if the trap is brken, freedom remains. anything other than that is misery. 

 

Of course the ego is  a trap.   It's a trap masterfully created to keep you dreaming.  When you play a video game and you press start do you want it to immediately go into God Mode?  What would be the fun in that?  Life and reality is entertaining... God has nothing else to do.   But when you realize you are not the player you become the designer.   You don't have to realize you are the designer you become it 

[VeganAwake]

15 hours ago, Salvijus said:

1. Seeker is not real. (True.)

?

2. Trying to achieve something called enlightenment only reinforces the illusion of seperate self. (Also true)

? no need to call anything true though because there is nothing false, there is only misunderstandings. True and false are just man-made conditioned concepts. 

3. Then how to brake the false perception of seperate self into a true perception of no self?

The misunderstanding here is that no self is a change or shift in perception or state.....it is not, it's simply the end of conditioned perception. 

Like a child that's never been taught anything looking at the world for the first time. 

It's unknowing!

 

4. No amount of intelectual masturbation is gonna help to make that shift of perception happen and brake the illusion.

It's not a shift in perception, it's the end of conditioned perspective altogether.

5. There are cause and effect in this world. Some things cause the illusion of seperate self to be broken where direct experience of no self is realized experiencially. Those causes are called spiritual practices.

There isn't anything right or wrong with spiritual practices, sometimes they seem to loosen up the tightly wound illusory sense of self, and sometimes as you said they reinforce it.... nothing is for certain.

Here there was a complete humbling or an emptying of the glass if you will prior to the hardcore seeking that lied ahead.

And with this my friends neo advaita got fully debunked.

I don't know anything about neo advaita or what you consider it to be. 

 

But what u will do is u half misunderstand what was written, become defensive about it and reply with something that has absolutely no relevence. Completly ignoring the fact that what is written above makes 100% sense and is a legit neo advaita debunk.

Seems like you are overly concerned about things always making sense intellectually.

Enlightenment is completely illogical and makes no sense at all, and when it does seem to occur, it reveals that nothing actually happened.... it's just the end of that misunderstanding!

I know because that same thing happened many times already. It's funny to watch things repeat itself again and again.

Yes the sense of self just spins around in circles over and over again.... totally exhausting ? 

And when that ends its recognized for the first time that freedom was always the case... it wasn't somewhere else because this is all there is!

❤ 

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

❤ 

bro - i l love you to death but lets be honest.  You're awakening to no self is purely conceptual.  You conceptually realized you are not an ego.   And that the ego is just a concept.  Hey, thats great!.  But you should not be on here teaching enlightenment because you are not awake as God.  You have not realized God.  You denounce God and you denounce what is mystical.  So please - save the conceptual BS for another forum.  We do not need it here.

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

But when you realize you are not the player you become the designer

When you realize that the player has zero possibilities to win the game, and that this is going to become more and more unpleasant, you think: what joke is this? this is not a game, this is shit . and you make the decision to hack the game. 

later, when you manage to get out of the practical joke a bit, you realize the enormous bottomless beauty that lies behind the apparent and you no longer advance escaping from a trap but rather open your heart to immensity, and advance for love. You start by drawing strength from the dark side, because it is the only source available, but as soon as the light shows itself to you, you are in love, you don't need to scape anymore but you keep moving forward, fueled by passion

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

When you realize that the player has zero possibilities to win the game, and that this is going to become more and more unpleasant, you think: what joke is this? this is not a game, this is shit . and you make the decision to hack the game. 

later, when you manage to get out of the practical joke a bit, you realize the enormous bottomless beauty that lies behind the apparent and you no longer advance escaping from a trap but rather open your heart to immensity, and advance for love. You start by drawing strength from the dark side, because it is the only source available, but as soon as the light shows itself to you, you are in love, you don't need to scape anymore but you keep moving forward, fueled by passion

You become conscious that you are both light and dark.  Without both, you could not be.  You are Inifnity.

 

 

[Razard86]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you won't get it, who the fuck will? Makes me lose hope in mankind.

Wow that's some high praise you have for him. You sound like Obi wan speaking to Anakin.

@Consilience Upon your shoulders is the hope of mankind do you accept this charge?

Edited July 20, 2022 by Razard86

[axiom]

30 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

bro - i l love you to death but lets be honest.  You're awakening to no self is purely conceptual. 

You do not know this.

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, axiom said:

You do not know this.

He has denounced God to me directly on a one and one phone call. Which means he has not awakened to no self.  He read a book or watched a video and bought into it.

 

When you realize no self, you realize God.   

What does it mean for something to exist?

The answer:  To be conscious of it.

Existence is Consciousnsess and Consciousness is Existence.  

This is God - and this is You.

If he fails to become conscious of this, then he is still assleep.  If he is still assleep, he is still Truth.  But he is Truth unawakened.

[Razard86]

15 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

the actualized paradox: everyone listens to leo, his videos and all his ideas, which may be interesting, but they are ideas. Leo has been saying for years that the most important tool for him was 5 meo, this is not an idea, it's real, but hardly anyone does it seriously. Well, ok, let's keep spinning the ideas

It used to be 5 Meo DMT, then it became 5 Meo Malt. You are right, the only way most will be able to see things from his perspective (as close as you can) is to follow his methods to a tee regarding 5 Meo. I believe based on everything he sees, he has some profound ridiculous awakenings. But it seems Leo is more interested in studying from the top down. 

I think more people are interested from the bottom up. So for example, how should someone flow through life with God's will. Instead of describing how it feels, create steps on how to do it.

Also I'm sure people would want him to look into healing, and any other spiritual gifts. Would be nice. I'm sure many of his deep awakenings feel like he is talking down to his audience instead of meeting them halfway if you will.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Razard86