Amazing tier 2 explanation about the limits and traps of Vedanta

[BuddhistLover]

It's not over yet. We still got a few more decades to go. We're only half a 3/4 a decade into this thing. 

[Consilience]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Consilience You understand that I am your own mind? That I am looking through your eyes?

I do. And that’s part of what makes this conversation so fucking wild. 
 

Regardless of the depth of my Awakening or lack thereof, it was Actualized.org that forced me to  acknowledge myself as God. Please know you’ve made an impact and I would hate for you to lose hope for humanity because I’m being stubborn. This openness to the possibility of being God was perhaps the single most important gift I’ve ever received so even if I haven’t “got it” compared to what you teach now, the teachings have left a truly ineffable, permanent mark on my life and my life purpose. So thank you. 
 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Consilience said:

This openness to the possibility of being God was perhaps the single most important gift I’ve ever received

Very good.

Keep doing your work then. It is good that you are flexing your own sovereignty. That will come in handy one day

[RendHeaven]

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

Regardless of the depth of my Awakening or lack thereof, it was Actualized.org that forced me to  acknowledge myself as God. Please know you’ve made an impact and I would hate for you to lose hope for humanity because I’m being stubborn. This openness to the possibility of being God was perhaps the single most important gift I’ve ever received so even if I haven’t “got it” compared to what you teach now, the teachings have left a truly ineffable, permanent mark on my life and my life purpose. So thank you. 

58 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Keep doing your work then. It is good that you are flexing your own sovereignty. That will come in handy one day

???

Got chills.

I love you both

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Consilience said:

You think you’ve got it figured out. You think the truth can fit into this little box of beliefs. But it is so much more radical, incomprehensible, and simple than even this false simplicity. 

All I'm trying to point out is that the end of seeking is the clear recognition that the seeker isn't real and nothing was missing.

I don't have anything figured out because what happened was the hardcore desperate seeker named travis was seen to be an unsatisfiable illusion-of-self.

It would just go in circles seeking and seeking and seeking endlessly.

The liberation which is longed for isn't in finding out or attaining something called truth or enlightenment.....

It's recognized as already being the case when the seeker goes by by!

❤ 

 

[Salvijus]

1. Seeker is not real. (True.)

2. Trying to achieve something called enlightenment only reinforces the illusion of seperate self. (Also true.)

3. Then how to brake the false perception of seperate self into a true perception of no self?

4. No amount of intelectual masturbation is gonna help to make that shift of perception happen and brake the illusion.

5. There are cause and effect in this world. Some things cause the illusion of seperate self to be broken where direct experience of no self is realized experiencially. Those causes are called spiritual practices.

And with this my friends neo advaita got fully debunked.

But what u will do is u half misunderstand what was written, become defensive about it and reply with something that has absolutely no relevence. Completly ignoring the fact that what is written above makes 100% sense and is a legit neo advaita debunk.

I know because that same thing happened many times already. It's funny to watch things repeat itself again and again.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Salvijus

[BuddhistLover]

The real question is, does a god actually exist, or is this really just nothingness in the form of pleasure vs pain in a material world?

[Salvijus]

Anybody can understand intelectually that everything is One. But for a direct shift of perception where all false sense of duality vanishes, mental conviction is not enough. That's the problem with neo advaita. They just understand intelectually that there is no tangable "me", everything is just appearing and disappearing on it's own without a controler. This is all true and fine, but the actual experience of these words are missing. It's only true on intelectual level for neo advaitists. Actual shift of perception from seperate false self into unlimited no self is missing. What could be more ridiculous then this?

Edited July 20, 2022 by Salvijus

[Raptorsin7]

@Salvijus Lol all the neo advaita people probably dismissed this thread before your epic post

[Salvijus]

11 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Salvijus Lol all the neo advaita people probably dismissed this thread before your epic post

Nah, watch and see how dishonest and defensive they can be. Even if i sayed 2+2=4 they would still find a way to disagree ? It's like they put 100% effort in disagreeing with me without even caring if it makes sense or no ? disagree at all cost is their attitude.

 

Edit. I think i misunderstood what u sayed but nvm.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Salvijus

[Raptorsin7]

5 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Nah, watch and see how dishonest and defensive they can be. Even if i sayed 2+2=4 they would still find a way to disagree ? It's like they put 100% effort in disagreeing with me without even caring if it makes sense or no ? disagree at all cost is their attitude.

 

Edit. I think i misunderstood what u sayed.

Haha I was just joking around, but yeah I don't understand it at all.

Suffering is so visceral so if you are deluding yourself and still suffering it should be very obvious. 

Part of me still thinks maybe they figured something out that I haven't, but at the same time there are so many holes.

[Salvijus]

@Raptorsin7 i wish i could talk to people face to face in real live setting. This topic is so so tangled and messed up it takes enourmous eloquence (that i don't have) to explain something in an easy to understand way over the text format. And on top of that u have to deal with very defensive deniers that have disagree at all cost attitude and put zero effort in understanding what is written  it's just impossible. Someday maybe ill explain in more depth and with deeper clarity and conviction the flaws of neo advaita over the live setting.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Salvijus

[Raptorsin7]

@Salvijus Haha you can be an neo-advaita debunker teacher. You can just argue with neo advaita people all day. Like a call in show

[Salvijus]

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Salvijus Haha you can be an neo-advaita debunker teacher. You can just argue with neo advaita people all day. Like a call in show

Lol ? 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

6 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Salvijus Haha you can be an neo-advaita debunker teacher. You can just argue with neo advaita people all day. Like a call in show

Id rather teach real neo advaita, the one that j krishnamurti was teaching. It sounds similar. But it's woooorlds apart. 

Removing the flaws of current neo advaita could actually give rise to a very powerful teaching that very few have the brains to understand. That's basicly krishnamurti's teaching in essence.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Salvijus

[Breakingthewall]

the actualized paradox: everyone listens to leo, his videos and all his ideas, which may be interesting, but they are ideas. Leo has been saying for years that the most important tool for him was 5 meo, this is not an idea, it's real, but hardly anyone does it seriously. Well, ok, let's keep spinning the ideas

[axiom]

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

1. Seeker is not real. (True.)

2. Trying to achieve something called enlightenment only reinforces the illusion of seperate self. (Also true.)

3. Then how to brake the false perception of seperate self into a true perception of no self?

4. No amount of intelectual masturbation is gonna help to make that shift of perception happen and brake the illusion.

5. There are cause and effect in this world. Some things cause the illusion of seperate self to be broken where direct experience of no self is realized experiencially. Those causes are called spiritual practices.

And with this my friends neo advaita got fully debunked.

But what u will do is u half misunderstand what was written, become defensive about it and reply with something that has absolutely no relevence. Completly ignoring the fact that what is written above makes 100% sense and is a legit neo advaita debunk.

I know because that same thing happened many times already. It's funny to watch things repeat itself again and again.

You are talking about sequences of events appearing to result in particular outcomes, but this is part of the movie. The later scenes in a movie are not decided by earlier scenes. They are already there (check out any youtube video and scrub to the end if you want to see this for yourself) 

Spiritual practices are part of the movie. You are watching the movie.

Edited July 20, 2022 by axiom

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, axiom said:

You are talking about sequences of events appearing to result in particular outcomes, but this is part of the movie. The later scenes in a movie are not decided by earlier scenes. They are already there (check out any youtube video and scrub to the end if you want to see this for yourself) 

Spiritual practices are part of the movie. You are watching the movie.

This is true. Everything is appearing and disappearing and there is no "me" inside it. Even spiritual practice is appearing and disappearing. All this is true and i agree with it.

The problem is it's not our direct experience yet. We identify ourselves with a limited false sense of psychological self precisely because we are not aware of our true nature as pure witness. 

One who becomes aware of our true nature of pure witness no longer identifies with anything that is impermenant. That's a radical shift in perception right there! And this shift won't happen by intelectual understanding. It only happens when awareness penetrates all illusions and false identities. 

And it just so happens that spiritual practices cause this disillusionment and brake all false identities. See. There's no escapeing spiritual practice. Because that's only thing that will brake false perception. And truthful perception is the only thing that counts. Intelectual understanding is as good as toilet paper.

(I see u have slightly different arguments then classic neo advaita. I like that  )

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Salvijus

[axiom]

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

This is true. Everything is appearing and disappearing and there is no "me" inside it. Even spiritual practice is appearing and disappearing. All this is true and i agree with it.

The problem is it's not our direct experience yet. We identify ourselves with a limited false sense of psychological self precisely because we are not aware of our true nature as pure witness. 

One who becomes aware of our true nature of pure witness no longer identifies with anything that is impermenant. That's a radical shift in perception right there! And this shift won't happen by intelectual understanding. It only happens when awareness penetrates all illusions and false identities. 

And it just so happens that spiritual practices cause this disillusionment and brake all false identities. See. There's no escapeing spiritual practice. Because that's only thing that will brake false perception. And truthful perception is the only thing that counts. Intelectual understanding is as good as toilet paper.

(I see u have slightly different arguments then classic neo advaita. I like that  )

 

I am not particularly interested in Neo Advaita. I find it entertaining, and parts of it seem to resonate. Bits and pieces of others’ apparent experiences here too seem to resonate.

But I am not merely theorising as you seem to be suggesting. Noticing the witness was profound when it first happened here - while the dream character was sitting in extreme discomfort at a Vipassana retreat - a year later and it seems to be locked in. I suppose that once it is seen it can’t be unseen. 

I still do not claim that spiritual practices cause the illusory self to fall away. If your paradigm is causality, then it could be said that the true cause was the Big Bang (or whatever may have preceded it, until you reach the beginning of all causes billions of years ago. But all of this is illusory.

The character believes it has some kind of unique agency that is greater than all of the cause and effect relationships of the rest of the apparent universe. It does not. No single component within the dream, including you, have any special ability to change the trajectory of the dream.

Causes, as far as they seem to exist, cannot be separated out - the entire universe of all apparent causes flows together. The dream is all made of dream stuff.

Also… just to say… people getting hung up on differences here. None of it actually matters :-) There is a 100% chance that “everyone” ultimately ends up in the same place.

Edited July 20, 2022 by axiom

[Salvijus]

@axiom im loving your tone right now, it's really gentle without any triggered emotions

So what in your opinion causes the shift in perception and identity from mind-body to pure witness if not spiritual practice? Didn't u have your insight while doing vipassana? Doesn't that prove the whole point?

Edited July 20, 2022 by Salvijus