Amazing tier 2 explanation about the limits and traps of Vedanta

[Raptorsin7]

@axiom Sorry man, but I think this pure nonsense. When you have a real awakening it will touch the core of your existence, and then you will see how nonsensical this kind of teaching is.

You can experience your entire being as transculent blissful energy. When Jim Newman talks about this then i'll give it some credence.

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, axiom said:

Truth is not needed. This is a projection of the self seeking to sustain itself by imagining it is not whole.

❤ 

[Consilience]

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Buddhists are not teaching God-Realization, sorry. You've been duped by them.

They don’t claim to. They teach that which is beyond God Realization. Well, certain schools do. Not every school. 

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, axiom said:

Truth is not needed. This is a projection of the self seeking to sustain itself by imagining it is not whole.

You’re misunderstanding, deeply. It’s very clear your caught in delusion, based on these posts at least. You’re still trying to apply linear rationality to that which is totally beyond the intellect.

Like I said, I wish you well on your path, and hope you can face both your life and your death with a sincere clarity about what is true. 

[VeganAwake]

54 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

You can experience your entire being as transculent blissful energy.

Well like axiom said, this is just a projected concept that the sense of self believes awakening/enlightenment will be like.

It also believes that upon attaining enlightenment there will be a firework show held in your honor and you will be able to teach extra spiritual vipassana retreats and get your toes kissed by sexy hippie seeker chicks. ? 

That is not going to happen so give it up!!

❤ 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by VeganAwake

[VeganAwake]

27 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Like I said, I wish you well on your path, and hope you can face both your life and your death with a sincere clarity about what is true. 

What's being said is that very conditioned sense of self which believes facing your fears of life & death with sincere clarity of truth....it's an illusion of self running on the hamster wheel trying to find something called truth in that which is already everything.

When that sense of self which believes it needs to meditate for 4 hrs a day +10 yrs straight is realized to be a silly illusion, then there's just BOOM THIS without the need of it being otherwise!

Enlightenment is the end of the individual that believes it has to jump through endless spiritual hoops to hopefully one-day stumble across or discover something within everything called truth which will make things all better!

It's absolutely never what the illusory individual believes it will be like.

THIS is already complete!

❤ 

 

[Leo Gura]

59 minutes ago, Consilience said:

They don’t claim to. They teach that which is beyond God Realization. Well, certain schools do. Not every school. 

Way below it.

[Consilience]

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Way below it.

You're still chasing states brother, spiritual materialism, unable or unwilling to see God in all, as God, completely and utterly. Truth runs across states in pure equilibrium, a Love that knows no limits or places any hierarchy on anything whatsoever. No state that passes and no orientation towards state chasing is it. Period. And yet here you are, deluding thousands, doing real damage to those who blindly follow. I don’t envy you or the mental gymnastics you’re caught in. 
 

54 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

What's being said is that very conditioned sense of self which believes facing your fears of life & death with sincere clarity of truth....it's an illusion of self running on the hamster wheel trying to find something called truth in that which is already everything.

Already everything includes the ignorance of the thusness of already everything. The irony is watching how the self clings so tightly to its belief that its enlightened, that it’s authentically seen the truth when the lack of clarity bleeds through the language and words. 

Quote

When that sense of self which believes it needs to meditate for 4 hrs a day +10 yrs straight is realized to be a silly illusion, then there's just BOOM THIS without the need of it being otherwise!

That’s part of the beauty of practicing. What need is there for things to be otherwise when this is already whole and complete? Why bother chasing after desires and pleasures which only propagate more suffering for the world when abiding in being is infinitely complete? 

Quote

Enlightenment is the end of the individual that believes it has to jump through endless spiritual hoops to hopefully one-day stumble across or discover something within everything called truth which will make things all better!

There was never an individual to end, therefore no that’s not what Enlightenment is. Enlightenment is when the truth is realized, and finally, liberation. Part of the truth is such realization cannot occur for or by any individual, as there never was an individual. And yet realization is a genuine possibility and self activity still remains, and still has consequences. 

Quote

It's absolutely never what the illusory individual believes it will be like.

Exactly. This is the tragedy of the position you cling to. You think you’ve got it figured out. You think the truth can fit into this little box of beliefs. But it is so much more radical, incomprehensible, and simple than even this false simplicity. 

Quote

THIS is already complete!

❤ 

But what is THIS? When THIS is realized, truly be free.

❤️

Edited July 20, 2022 by Consilience

[Carl-Richard]

47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Way below it.

This is an intuition/inference though. You don't truly know the full ramifications of an organically generated, persistent nondual state of awareness (or whatever hyper-purified Buddhist version of that), before you're in it. This is just my inference, but I think that something which is organically generated (and persistent) is completely different from a transitory state (and its afterglow effects). It's not that one is higher and one is lower, but rather that they're in completely different categories. I also think that the potential of the former is much easier to dismiss than the latter, because again, you truly don't know. Another inference that I've got from realizing the power of refining my own organic potential (by minimizing that which isn't merely essential and maximizing that which is), is that the intelligence inside is immense, if only it's allowed to be.

[Consilience]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

This is an intuition/inference though. You don't truly know the full ramifications of an organically generated, persistent non-dual state of awareness (or whatever Buddhist hyper-purified version of that), before you're in it. This is just my inference, but I think that something which is organically generated (and persistent) is completely different than a transitory state (and its afterglow effects). It's not that one is higher and one is lower, but rather that they're in completely different categories. I also think that the potential of the former is much easier to dismiss than the latter, because again, you truly don't know. Another inference that I've got from realizing the power of refining my own organic potential, by minimizing that which isn't merely essential (and maximizing that which is), is that the intelligence inside is immense, if only it's allowed to be.

This is a great, well articulated response.

It’s difficult to compare that which transcends states to the inquiry about which states are higher or lower, or which states are more wholesome or unwholesome, which definitely has its place in the spiritual awakening process. 

[Leo Gura]

42 minutes ago, Consilience said:

You're still chasing states brother, spiritual materialism, unable or unwilling to see God in all, as God, completely and utterly. Truth runs across states in pure equilibrium, a Love that knows no limits or places any hierarchy on anything whatsoever. No state that passes and no orientation towards state chasing is it. Period. And yet here you are, deluding thousands, doing real damage to those who blindly follow. I don’t envy you or the mental gymnastics you’re caught in.

No

You're in a state right now, dreaming.

40 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

This is an intuition/inference though. You don't truly know the full ramifications of an organically generated, persistent nondual state of awareness (or whatever hyper-purified Buddhist version of that), before you're in it. This is just my inference, but I think that something which is organically generated (and persistent) is completely different from a transitory state (and its afterglow effects). It's not that one is higher and one is lower, but rather that they're in completely different categories. I also think that the potential of the former is much easier to dismiss than the latter, because again, you truly don't know. Another inference that I've got from realizing the power of refining my own organic potential (by minimizing that which isn't merely essential and maximizing that which is), is that the intelligence inside is immense, if only it's allowed to be.

When you truly awaken, you'll know.

What you guys are talking about is not it.

Not sure how else to say it to you. Buddhism is not it.

I'm not gonna bend over backward to try to convince you. If you disagree, so be it. Enjoy your dream.

[Consilience]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No

You're in a state right now, dreaming.

There is something beyond waking, dreaming, and dreamless sleep and therefore independent of states. That is truth. Truth is not a state. 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Consilience said:

There is something beyond waking, dreaming, and dreamless sleep and therefore independent of states. That is truth. Truth is not a state. 

You have no idea what consciousness is capable of.

Stop acting like you're awake. You're not. You are not fooling me for second.

[Consilience]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You have no idea what consciousness is capable of.

Stop acting like you're awake. You're not. You are not fooling me for second.

Your opinion of whether Im awake is as valuable as a transient God realized state. 

Im not writing responses to convince you or VeganAwake of anything. Nor am I claiming complete awakening. Im writing in hopes that those who read can see there’s another path beyond endlessly chasing states, and beyond falling into beliefs about enlightenment.

[Leo Gura]

@Consilience Be careful that the self-deception you perceive in others is not just a projection.

Sure would be a great way to stay asleep, wouldn't it?

Who do you think you're saving?

[Consilience]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Consilience Be careful that the self-deception you perceive in others is not just a projection.

Sure would be a great way to stay asleep, wouldn't it?

Who do you think you're saving?

Touche.

Btw, this entire paradigm Im speaking from is based on your teachings.

- Regular meditation

- quarterly retreats

- radical openmindnedness

- learning from multiple masters and teachers

- self deception

- recontextualization

- not confusing content with structure 

- vision 

- direct experience is king

- trusting my own authority 

- enlightenment being the most important discovery of my life

All of the above I learned from you. And much more. 

If Im ever being a pain in the ass, you have only yourself to blame.. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Consilience

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Touche.

Btw, this entire paradigm Im speaking from is based on your teachings.

- Regular meditation

- quarterly retreats

- radical openmindnedness

- learning from multiple masters and teachers

- self deception

- recontextualization

- not confusing content with structure 

- vision 

- direct experience is king

- trusting my own authority 

- enlightenment being the most important discovery of my life

All of the above I learned from you. And much more. 

If Im ever being a pain in the ass, you have only yourself to blame.. 

That's all good, but it isn't sufficient for the highest awakening.

I don't blame you, it just breaks my heart what you are missing.

If you won't get it, who the fuck will? Makes me lose hope in mankind.

[Raptorsin7]

@Leo Gura But your own awakenings aren't even complete, so how can you be sure that you won't look back at this entire conversation in a few weeks/months/years and think wow I was so deluded.

I'd be very curious to see when you develop to a point where you can resolve your health issues and learn some healing capabilities, at that point maybe you can be more confident that you aren't deluding yourself

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Leo Gura But your own awakenings aren't even complete, so how can you be sure that you won't look back at this entire conversation in a few weeks/months/years and think wow I was so deluded.

I'd be very curious to see when you develop to a point where you can resolve your health issues and learn some healing capabilities, at that point maybe you can be more confident that you aren't deluding yourself

They are more complete than yours, and that's enough.

[Leo Gura]

@Consilience You understand that I am your own mind? That I am looking through your eyes?