Does raising children hurt or improve Self-Actualization?

[Rob06]

With Leo's video about the next phase of Actualized.org, I am also starting to think about my own next phase of life. The past 10 years (my 20's) have really been focused a lot on personal development and building career skills. The last three years have been focused on developing my intimate relationship, gaining momentum with my freelance business, and buying and renovating a house. 

In the next phase I want to further develop my business and make my life purpose out of it and focus more on spiritual work. I also have a desire to raise kids though. Somehow I have the belief that all these things can't be done together. I assume that I could choose two of these three, but not all three, so: career and spiritual development, or career and kids. On the other hand, I could also see that raising kids can be a great way to self-actualize. 

My question to those who raised kids is: did it improve your self-actualization, and ability to do spiritual work? Or did it harm it, because you just didn't have the time/energy while raising kids?

Thanks!

[Yarco]

I've got a 10 month old atm. It will drastically hurt your personal development and self-actualization, working toward your life purpose, take away time for stuff you enjoy such as video games, it'll be a struggle to find time to exercise or cook decent meals, and pretty much everything else in your life simply because you aren't going to have time for anything else.

From what I can tell and every other parent tells me, it only keeps getting harder and harder until the kid goes to school. It was hard when my kid was still a potato, but now that they can crawl and stand and starting to crawl up stairs it's even harder. And when they start to talk and you have to really engage with them, instead of just watching them play and interacting while listening to a podcast in one ear, it'll be even harder still.

Maybe if you put them in daycare and don't work during the day, you could use that time for personal development. But you're still living on hard mode and doing 2x as much in a day.

That being said, the clock is ticking. If you or your partner (especially the woman) is approaching 30, you pretty much need to do it now if you want to have kids, or you might miss your chance entirely. Especially with declining fertility rates already, if you have to do IUI or IVF it'll add at least another year. It was important to my partner to have a kid and took several years to make happen, so wasn't something I could just put off.

[ZenAlex]

Basically you should self actualized before you have kids unless you're already stuck with them.

 

[Leo Gura]

It will force you to mature. However it will also eat up a massive amount of time and energy.

Tradeoffs.

Basically you'll have to work harder, but you will also grow more from that.

[Raptorsin7]

@Rob06 If you are already on the path and are somewhat emotionally healthy and integrated then having children can be a tremendous opportunity for growth.

You can develop a profound connection, and the relationship can be a source of growth and true love in your life. 

I have an great uncle who was suicidal when he moved here from India because the family he married into was very screwed up and he had no options but to fall under their authority, and he said the love for his children is what gave his life purpose and allowed him to overcome suicidal ideation.

[Superfluo]

@Rob06 Raising kid is tough because it forces you to confront with the part of your shadow which you haven't integrated yet, and teaches you empathy, patience, how to set and enforce boundaries, how to be vulnerables, how to consciously deal with another vulnerable person, and so on. It will be tough, especially if you had a dysfunctional childhood, because all your traumas will be triggered by your children (you are in the parent role now).

If you value psychological healing and integration, then yes, raising children is a valuable road. You also need the right partner

[Rob06]

On 19-7-2022 at 4:37 PM, Yarco said:

I've got a 10 month old atm. It will drastically hurt your personal development and self-actualization, working toward your life purpose, take away time for stuff you enjoy such as video games, it'll be a struggle to find time to exercise or cook decent meals, and pretty much everything else in your life simply because you aren't going to have time for anything else.

From what I can tell and every other parent tells me, it only keeps getting harder and harder until the kid goes to school. It was hard when my kid was still a potato, but now that they can crawl and stand and starting to crawl up stairs it's even harder. And when they start to talk and you have to really engage with them, instead of just watching them play and interacting while listening to a podcast in one ear, it'll be even harder still.

Maybe if you put them in daycare and don't work during the day, you could use that time for personal development. But you're still living on hard mode and doing 2x as much in a day.

That being said, the clock is ticking. If you or your partner (especially the woman) is approaching 30, you pretty much need to do it now if you want to have kids, or you might miss your chance entirely. Especially with declining fertility rates already, if you have to do IUI or IVF it'll add at least another year. It was important to my partner to have a kid and took several years to make happen, so wasn't something I could just put off.

@Yarco Thanks for your realistic perspective based on your own experience raising a kid

 

On 20-7-2022 at 11:39 AM, ZenAlex said:

Basically you should self actualized before you have kids unless you're already stuck with them.

 

@ZenAlex Yes, partially agree, even though self-actualization is a lifelong process. 

 

On 20-7-2022 at 11:43 AM, Leo Gura said:

It will force you to mature. However it will also eat up a massive amount of time and energy.

Tradeoffs.

Basically you'll have to work harder, but you will also grow more from that.

@Leo Gura Yeah, I might want to prepare for waking up at 5 am to meditate (if the kids aren't already awake at that time )

 

On 20-7-2022 at 11:47 AM, Raptorsin7 said:

@Rob06 If you are already on the path and are somewhat emotionally healthy and integrated then having children can be a tremendous opportunity for growth.

@Raptorsin7 Yes, somewhat

 

23 hours ago, Superfluo said:

@Rob06 Raising kid is tough because it forces you to confront with the part of your shadow which you haven't integrated yet, and teaches you empathy, patience, how to set and enforce boundaries, how to be vulnerables, how to consciously deal with another vulnerable person, and so on. It will be tough, especially if you had a dysfunctional childhood, because all your traumas will be triggered by your children (you are in the parent role now).

If you value psychological healing and integration, then yes, raising children is a valuable road. You also need the right partner

@Superfluo Yeah I can imagine some shadow stuff coming up while raising kids. My childhood wasn't very dysfunctional, even though I was raised a bit overprotective myself. Did you encounter this kind of stuff while raising children?

 

Thanks all!

[Katerina Riverside]

There is no better mirror or love explosion than having a child. Raising them is one of the hardest parts of my life. It is the most beautiful lesson. You might lose time to meditate and it will strip you of "freedom". But if you engage in conscious parenting, you start experiencing miracles through the child.

[Superfluo]

4 hours ago, Rob06 said:

Did you encounter this kind of stuff while raising children?

I don't have children, I'm still young .

 

The bottom line is: What do you value the most? And how can you align yourself and your life towards those values? Does having children and especially dealing with them align with your core values? Do you want them because you feel forced by people, society or other, or because it's an authentic desire of yours? How could you design your life now and in the future to make raising children coexist with other aspects of your life and especially make it so that it doesn't corrode other aspects of your life?

[Adodd]

On 7/19/2022 at 10:37 AM, Yarco said:

I've got a 10 month old atm.

From what I can tell and every other parent tells me, it only keeps getting harder and harder until the kid goes to school.

 

@Yarco I know it's hard not to but don't stress too much. I have FIVE kids all under 10 and I promise it gets DRASTICALLY easier after around 2. I don't miss those long stressed out exhausted days of the first year. Believe it or not you will miss it. The days are long but the years are short. Unfortunately, I didn't realize it until they were all past that stage.?

But yes, having another person that requires your time and attention will leave you,to some extent, with less time and attention to put towards yourself. I think that's true to some extent for any at home relationship. Kids, romantic partner, dog. I wish I would've put more time into myself before having kids but at the same time having kids eventually kickstarted my growth in a way that I don't think I could've done myself. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Adodd

[Rob06]

16 minutes ago, Adodd said:

@Yarco I know it's hard not to but don't stress too much. I have FIVE kids all under 10 and I promise it gets DRASTICALLY easier after around 2. I don't miss those long stressed out exhausted days of the first year. Believe it or not you will miss it. The days are long but the years are short. Unfortunately, I didn't realize it until they were all past that stage.?

But yes, having another person that requires your time and attention will leave you,to some extent, with less time and attention to put towards yourself. I think that's true to some extent for any at home relationship. Kids, romantic partner, dog. I wish I would've put more time into myself before having kids but at the same time having kids eventually kickstarted my growth in a way that I don't think I could've done myself. 

@Adodd Thanks, yes from most parents I spoke to, they say it gets easier after the first two years. I'm planning on doing an ayahuasca ceremony together with my partner. Maybe it will reveal something about my true desires in this matter.

[anaj]

I have four kids. Of course it’s exhausting and takes up a lot of time. But here’s the thing. All of this work that we’re doing is about increasing our capacity for Love. But having capacity is not enough. Unless that Love is somehow put into manifest form the capacity is just unactualized potential. Of course, we could put the love out in the world through our life purpose - and that could reach a lot of people and the ripple effect from that could be profound, but there’s another way in which we can manifest Love in the world. And that is by building little Love spreading machines. Programmed correctly, they would put much Love into the world but they would also upon reaching maturity hopefully replicate themselves, thereby generating exponential love growth. So, unless you’ve already got your life purpose at hand there’s a ready made one and that’s to start a family and instantiate the Love in the world through them.

[Rob06]

@anaj Haha I love it, love spreading machines, if programmed correctly  . Thanks for sharing.

[Eph75]

@Rob06

I'd say you should start with defining what self-actualizing means to you. It could mean pursuing carrier to some, or transcend and detaching from the desire to "have" career to others. 

What is it that you think you are sacrificing if a child/children takes up your time? 

My kids are in their early 20s and as they were in the dawn of their days, other parents talked about children as a burden, as something that often was in "the way" , something that "interfered" with something that they needed for themselves. 

These people weren't self-actualizing, the children just interfered with some desire. Doesn't matter where that desire comes from, or seen as healthy or unhealthy in nature. 

If children clashes with your other desires, and you can't allow for the time the children needs to grow up to healthy secure individuals, then yes it will be a problem, interfering with self-actualization.

If life and children is part of ones own growth, children are a magnificent growth opportunity, that catalyze a lot of maturity that will support further types-of self-actualization. 

Question is, would you lose something that you desire by having children, will they prevent you from doing something particular. Or would you prioritize other things that means you miss out on their childhood, that impairs your future growth? 

Kids take and deserve getting a, lot of time, love and attention. 

Besides, what's the rush? 

The one thing that used to pain me with having kids, was seeing other parents completely ignoring their children, with the result of them screaming for attention - which still was ignored. 

What I found scary was how many parents that did ignore their children, and how few actually allowed them healthy space, feeling seen and affirmed. 

Paradoxically, the children getting attention required little attention as a result, when being in situations with others, and the ignored children was constantly trying to get the parents attention, but failing to do so. 

I've never felt that it has been exhausting to have childen, but as with everything, the experience lives in the resistence and desire that circumstances should be otherwise.

A child with a tummy ache that can't sleep, is preventing your sleep. That's true, but the greater exhaustion is the thought of it being something unwanted, and being better if they didn't keep you wake, and you got your own beauty sleep.

What will you lose if you allow your life to slow down? 

This slow down is more than 2 years, it's an indetermined time-commitment towarda another human being.

There will always be situations that deserve being prioritized, and those situations will vary depending on phases, ages and showing up different for different sexes.

Simply allow it to be a different kind of personal development. It might interfere with the original plan, but plans are designed to fail, adjusting to changing circumstances, flowing with, works better. 

Often you can have a piece from both worlds, just a different piece. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Eph75

[Rob06]

@Eph75 Thank you, that's a refreshing perspective. My partner and I are both designing our work in such a way that we can work a lot from home. Hypothetically a baby could just chill by my side while I work, even though I do realize that would give a lot of distraction. 

I like what you say about things (or children) being seen as unwanted. Lately I notice that I do a lot of that in my life. I relate to quite some things as my life as unwanted, but am starting to see that I can just as well relate to those things as stuff to be grateful for, stuff to love, stuff to learn from. So that's really a mindset thing. 

 

Thanks!

[Vision]

On 20/07/2022 at 2:37 AM, Yarco said:

If you or your partner (especially the woman) is approaching 30, you pretty much need to do it now if you want to have kids, or you might miss your chance entirely.

Why might they miss their chance entirely? 
 

My parents had me when they were 40+.

[Brittany]

A lot of stay at home mom's are millionaires, nowadays, due to social media. haha

 

[Yarco]

16 hours ago, Vision said:

Why might they miss their chance entirely? 

My parents had me when they were 40+.

If you are age 25, the chance of having a kid with Down syndrome is about 1 in 1,250. If you are age 35, the risk increases to 1 in 400. At 40, 1 in 100. By age 45, it is 1 in 30.

Women aged 45 and over have a 53.6% chance of a miscarriage vs 25 - 29 it's only 9.8%

Women over age 40 are 51% more likely than women aged 25-29 to have a child with autism. Women aged 35-39 are 31% more likely than women aged 25-29 to have a child with autism. Women aged 30-34 are 12% more likely than women aged 25-29 to have a child with autism.

On and on... everything that can go wrong with having a kid starts becoming hugely more likely once the woman is over 30.

Fertility starts to drop drastically after 30 - 35 as well, before you even have to worry about the problems above.

Not to mention it's hard chasing a kid around even when you're in your 30s, losing sleep is harder on your body, everything's harder. If you have your kid at 40, then by the time you're supposed to be running around playing soccer or playing catch with them you're 50 and may have health problems and mobility problems already, you're closer to a grandpa than a father. The chance that you might die before you see your kid graduate from college or have your grandkids becomes a real concern.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Yarco

[Rob06]

@Brittany lol I'll share this info with my wife 

5 hours ago, Brittany said:

A lot of stay at home mom's are millionaires, nowadays, due to social media. haha

 

 

[Vision]

@Yarco Thanks for your detailed reply.

Could that contribute to why I have so many health problems?

Since the age of 15 I’ve felt like I’m 95. 

I’ve also questioned whether I have autism for the past couple of years since being more aware of its subtleties. I used to think that you could only be autistic if you couldn’t communicate normally. Not trying to self-diagnose here though. Apparently it’s more likely if you were born via C-section and weren’t breastfed like I was.

How does one get tested for autism anyway?