Do you flirt with the idea of suicide from time to time ?

[Yeah Yeah]

Everyday, if I could swallow a pill with instant results, yes without question

[Razard86]

On 7/26/2022 at 10:11 AM, JoeVolcano said:

Anyone who isn't flirting with the idea of suicide, should start right away.

Stop treating it like some sort of taboo. You're going to die one day, might as well be on your own terms.

If you can't even contemplate ending your own life, then whose life is it.

That's an interesting perspective, but I disagree. I wouldn't recommend people contemplate suicide, I would recommend you don't suppress your emotions so whatever arises allow it to come in whatever form it comes. But definitely thinking about the end of your life as you currently are is also a healthy endeavor as well.

[zurew]

4 minutes ago, JoeVolcano said:

There is no better way to cut through fear, hope, attachment, others, trivialities, meaning, etc. and to drop all the pointless nonsense in life, than the 24/7 full immersion awareness that you may not have a tomorrow. Because you may not

This is true, and applicable advice and usable advice ,however this advice is not applicable to people who are totally depressed and emotionally unstable. This is a good way to build your way up to deal with the idea of death, but you have to start from an already healthy ground(imo).

[zurew]

7 minutes ago, JoeVolcano said:

Those who are depressed and emotionally unstable are in the absolute best position to appreciate and apply this advice, and the only ones likely to want to hear it, and to actually do it, and to benefit from it. I speak from experience. Nobody would have been able to tell me to just pick myself up and how life is worth living and just put your back into it and all that nonsense. That would have (and did) only make things worse. And only then contemplate death? Lol...

Most depressed people want to kill themselves because of their suffering not because of choice. I think what you are talking about is being aware of death and actually having the choice if one wants to die and being okay with the death of one's self.

I wouldn't say that its an authentic choice to kill yourself, when you are totally hopeless and depressed. Choosing to die when you have everything and when you are emotionally stable is a whole different level, because at that point you are the one who actually authentically chooses to die without your traumas and emotions dictating your choices. It requires detachment, but how can you be deatched or how can you practice detachment, when you are very tightly attached to your suffering and ego?

I think contemplating death without being detached is useless. You actually paradoxically kill yourself if you are too attached to yourself and to your life and to your suffering. Thats what depressed and emotionally unstable people do, they are so attached to themselves and to their suffering, that they kill themselves (point here is not because of choice, but because of attachment).

This whole talk is not really about the contemplation of death, more about the detachment from  life and yourself.

[zurew]

@JoeVolcano I think that you and Eckhart Tolle are two exceptional people in this regard ,because you two were able to pull this off without actually physically killing yourselves. But i wouldn't expect from normal people to to pull the same thing off, what you guys did.

 

important fact: Suicidal people are the ones who contemplate death and suicide the most frequently and in the most serious way.

Not trying to be argumentative, but If contemplating death would really prevent suicidal people from physically killing themselves, then why is that, that suicidal people are the most likely ones to commit suicide?

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by zurew

[zurew]

@JoeVolcano What would you say, which one gives more insight about death?

1. When you have an ego death exp
2. When you contemplate suicide seriously

[zurew]

29 minutes ago, JoeVolcano said:

What makes you think there is a difference between the two 

I can have an ego death experience during a heavy meditation session, without contemplating death. I could have an ego death experience by consuming heavy psychedelics like 5meo DMT without contemplating death.

23 minutes ago, JoeVolcano said:

The whole point of contemplating death is to kill ego.  ?

Thats true, but i think its little different in kind compared to having an ego death exp during a psychedelic trip or having ego death during meditation, but maybe not.

Edited August 10, 2022 by zurew

[zurew]

27 minutes ago, JoeVolcano said:

I'm trying to give heavy answers in a light-hearted way, but I only end up looking smug  Sorry about that...

You don't need to apologise for being you, i am not offended or mad or anything, we are good.

[zurew]

1 hour ago, JoeVolcano said:

I think very few people go into it for achieving permanent ego death.

Yeah this is true for sure. I think that doing psychedelics alone won't do much, you need to do + work, like seriously contemplate the insights that you get from psychedelics. Integrating insights that you get from meditation or from psychedelics is the heavy part of the work (imo).

1 hour ago, JoeVolcano said:

I guess you could say that psychedelics can be used as a catalyst for contemplating your own death. If used that way, I'm sure it's very potent. But then if that's how you're using it, then it already means that you're willing to go there. That's something the individual brings to it, not the psychedelic.

All these practices are good and unique in their own way. We don't have to choose one over the other.  We could use them in a clever way where each  strengthens the other.

Edited August 10, 2022 by zurew

[Yeah Yeah]

@JoeVolcano

On 10/08/2022 at 2:19 AM, JoeVolcano said:

There are quick, easy, fail-safe ways. I have everything I need right here at home. And I've found it very helpful to even just have the option.

With death in your pocket and one hand on it at all times, you can face anything in life. Death-awareness (Memento Mori) is the best spiritual practice.

(I'm not advocating that anyone actually does it, but I am advocating that everyone seriously contemplate it, and is ready for it.)

Cheers

I go to sleep with a rope around my neck, and the other end around my ankle, so in the middle of night my ankle will unconciously yank down and hopefully successfully strangle myself in my sleep - What other options are available ? I'm willing to die, and I don't think death is bad, but life can be boring and unbearable

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Yeah Yeah said:

@JoeVolcano

I go to sleep with a rope around my neck, and the other end around my ankle, so in the middle of night my ankle will unconciously yank down and hopefully successfully strangle myself in my sleep - What other options are available ? I'm willing to die, and I don't think death is bad, but life can be boring and unbearable

Get help. Seriously.

[PenguinPablo]

Yes... Sometimes I do.

The thing is that the desire to end your life is the same as the desire for enlightenment.

Ultimately, you want to let go of all the suffering you're carrying. 

The cool thing is you don't have to end your life.

You can drop the suffering, the negative thoughts, the heavy emotions this very minute... Like dropping groceries on the ground because they're too heavy

 

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by PenguinPablo

[Yeah Yeah]

@JoeVolcano idk dude, I doubt reading another self help book will create an ego death which will break the chains of being alive - I genuinely do not look forward to another bs day making zero dollars in this bs world where eventually I will die - Imagine being a farmer when atom bomb dropped, your entire blood line of hard work eliminated - I know you won't give a way a out, nor will the book you recommended, nor will a google search which I've done thousands of times througout the many many years - Instead all there is to do is scroll mindlessly on the internet waiting for the moment I face death, whether a tragedy, self inflicted, a vibrational match to it or old age - I genuinely am incredible bored and zero interest in anything except one thing which is something I won't mention - Other than that I'd go out like Kurt Cobain

[Yeah Yeah]

@JoeVolcano i hate where I live, I hate people, I hate working my job, I hate being sober, I hate hunger, I hate the weather, I hate emotions, I hate not living up to my expectations, i hate self help, i hate philosophy, i hate dating and women in general, i hate my mother and my family, i hate my country, i hate animals, i hate physics, i hate it all, boring and an absplute waste of struggle, only to eventuay die which is far more easier than the struggle to maintain a roof over my head, prevent pain or injuries or accidents or old age and decay, to struggle maintaining boring relationships, to mainain money, to maintain a healthy diet, to provide food - And it all continuously disappears, and I sit here with my annoying thoughts and emotions which are not creatvie - All absolute bs and I am forced to remain alive and endure this bs scary annoying ugly world of fat useless people with their competitive bs egos 

7 hours ago, JoeVolcano said:

With respect, my friend, you can't ask me that.

What I'm talking about isn't to start crossing the street without looking just to tempt fate. What I'm talking about is treating the matter with respect, honesty, responsibility, and self-determination.

If you want to know about suicide, then google it. Read about it. Research it. Take control of it. Own it.

Firstly, what you actually want is not to die, but to end the suffering. Don't make impulsive decisions when you're in a bad place. When you're in that place, know that you have the option, contemplate the option, resign to the option, even look forward to the option, but don't do it yet. Wait until you're level-headed before making any decisions. You will find that you don't actually want to do it, but that you just want a way out. Otherwise you would have done it already, and not in your sleep.

When you open yourself up to the worst of it in those moments, without looking away from it or hiding from it, a part of you dies. That's catharsis. You will know afterward, because you'll feel lighter. If you really want to die, then that's the kind of dying you want.

You may also want to get a framework, by reading Jed McKenna. He talks about Memento Mori in the third book "Spiritual Warfare", but all his books are basically about ego-death in one way or another. And everything in his books is about facing reality honestly and and without flinching. He doesn't sugarcoat things and tell pretty lies. He doesn't tell you to turn away from rational, suicidal depression and pretend that everything is fine, like everyone else does. He points the way through. If you want to stop running, read his books. Start with the first trilogy:

https://www.wisefoolpress.com/e3/

Best wishes

@JoeVolcano idk dude, I doubt reading another self help book will create an ego death which will break the chains of being alive - I genuinely do not look forward to another bs day making zero dollars in this bs world where eventually I will die - Imagine being a farmer when atom bomb dropped, your entire blood line of hard work eliminated - I know you won't give a way a out, nor will the book you recommended, nor will a google search which I've done thousands of times througout the many many years - Instead all there is to do is scroll mindlessly on the internet waiting for the moment I face death, whether a tragedy, self inflicted, a vibrational match to it or old age - I genuinely am incredible bored and zero interest in anything except one thing which is something I won't mention - Other than that I'd go out like Kurt Cobain

[Yeah Yeah]

@Carl-Richard no one will help except for themselves, 

7 hours ago, JoeVolcano said:

With respect, my friend, you can't ask me that.

What I'm talking about isn't to start crossing the street without looking just to tempt fate. What I'm talking about is treating the matter with respect, honesty, responsibility, and self-determination.

If you want to know about suicide, then google it. Read about it. Research it. Take control of it. Own it.

Firstly, what you actually want is not to die, but to end the suffering. Don't make impulsive decisions when you're in a bad place. When you're in that place, know that you have the option, contemplate the option, resign to the option, even look forward to the option, but don't do it yet. Wait until you're level-headed before making any decisions. You will find that you don't actually want to do it, but that you just want a way out. Otherwise you would have done it already, and not in your sleep.

When you open yourself up to the worst of it in those moments, without looking away from it or hiding from it, a part of you dies. That's catharsis. You will know afterward, because you'll feel lighter. If you really want to die, then that's the kind of dying you want.

You may also want to get a framework, by reading Jed McKenna. He talks about Memento Mori in the third book "Spiritual Warfare", but all his books are basically about ego-death in one way or another. And everything in his books is about facing reality honestly and and without flinching. He doesn't sugarcoat things and tell pretty lies. He doesn't tell you to turn away from rational, suicidal depression and pretend that everything is fine, like everyone else does. He points the way through. If you want to stop running, read his books. Start with the first trilogy:

https://www.wisefoolpress.com/e3/

Best wishes

@JoeVolcano idk dude, I doubt reading another self help book will create an ego death which will break the chains of being alive - I genuinely do not look forward to another bs day making zero dollars in this bs world where eventually I will die - Imagine being a farmer when atom bomb dropped, your entire blood line of hard work eliminated - I know you won't give a way a out, nor will the book you recommended, nor will a google search which I've done thousands of times througout the many many years - Instead all there is to do is scroll mindlessly on the internet waiting for the moment I face death, whether a tragedy, self inflicted, a vibrational match to it or old age - I genuinely am incredible bored and zero interest in anything except one thing which is something I won't mention - Other than that I'd go out like Kurt Cobain

[Loba]

I'm still seriously flirting with it.  Suicide is bae.  I've spent the last two months with it on my mind nearly non-stop is some form or another, either trying to reconnect with the other side, to try and glean into some form of solution from my "people" there into this feeling of depression and low key angst.  I've tried learning all about NDE's and what to expect, I've tried humour and self introspection and nothing seems to get rid of this obsessive morbid curiosity.

Literally the only thing that is keeping me here is that I couldn't stand knowing that I ruined the tail end of my parent's lives by ending myself.  I can't help but visualize their pain over the whole thing, and just when they've started retirement.  It seems like ending it now would be too selfish and cruel.  And on top of it I have these pets that I am responsible for.  My cat Sandy only trusts me, if I leave then she will never again know what it is like to be snuggled.  My dog would be confused and would look for me around the house, but I think she would move on okay after some time.

I'm just looking forward to it so much, and waiting fifteen years until my pets and parents pass away feels like forever, I don't know how I am going to manage feeling normal in this life, for who I am.  Nothing feels good or right, and I can't fully pinpoint why I feel this way.  Maybe I've just been repressing too many things and it's call coming up, especially recently, I've been doing a lot of shadow work, trying to understand myself a little bit better, but nothing seems to do the trick.

I'm super bummed out that I have to live in this terrible life in this body that I hate in a world that I don't belong in for another decade and a half, possibly more.  I wish I would just get cancer or a heart attack or something and then the responsibility of having to wait around would be nullified.  I feel super guilty for having these feelings, because even though I am not young or healthy, I have a comfortable life, the kind of life that many people who aren't privilege would dream of having - and I feel guilt because I know that they would have done so much more with it than I did.

I just want to wake up in the morning and to not feel bitter and confused about my emotions, and resentful and then ultimately guilty, like I don't even have the right to feel upset.  And perhaps I don't?  I don't fucking know. But this ideation, this absolute heart-wrenching longing for the other side never goes away, I just keep thinking, once I am there and not here everything will make sense.

Ya dig?

[Applegarden8]

No, neither should you. But you should flirt with the fact that you are going to die someday you don't know and it could be today.

[Loba]

@JoeVolcano I'm not talking about memento mori, memento mori is just the practice of contemplating your own death, this is a thread about suicidal ideation.

[Yeah Yeah]

@Loba You sound so romantic how you speak of your suicide fantasies

[Loba]

@Yeah Yeah It feels romantic to me, coming home...
Just 15 more years of this shit.  I did the research..., if you have a mental illness then it is treated as something terminal and so it isn't castigated by those on the other side.

An acquaintance of mine - his father recently passed away due to a self inflicted gun shot wound to the head.  He was 85 and his health was starting to fail him and his wife is dying of dementia.  Getting old seems to me to be nothing more than a series of losing everything that you've worked for and love - I'd rather go out in my middle age.
As for the romance, it is because I - possibly delusionally - believe that my true place of belonging is over there, that this life is just a test run, and I have had awakening experiences that have shown me that they're (family; spouse) on the other side, waiting for me to return.

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Loba