What is the most awakened region of the world?

[ValiantSalvatore]

2 hours ago, integral said:

Google most progressive country.

1. Norway
2. Sweden
3. Denmark
4. Finland
5. Iceland
6. New Zealand
7. Switzerland
8. Canada
9. Germany
10. Australia

Probably more developed people live there. 

Agree with this in terms of Norway being Nr1. meet some people from Norway while travelling in south korea who were my age absolutely lovely people. I don't think spirituality is that much present as for example in Sweden, yet I'd mostly likely intuit that Norway is tad more spiritual than Sweden because of how much I had the impression of how they enjoyed nature overall. Generally people who enjoy nature/wildness/planet/gaia are more conscious and enjoyable to be around. I also think Swiss people are pretty chill.

Edited July 24, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[Nilsi]

2 hours ago, Vynce said:

I'm searching for a place to live right now. And I notice that all my preferences for "a good place to live" where completely arbitrary and random. Conscious choices require some research beforehand.

All W.E.I.R.D countries are roughly the same when it comes to how "conscious" they are. There will be no felt difference in consciousness between living in Norway or Italy or America. Just look for what fits your goals and values. I moved from Germany to the Austrian Alps. There really is no difference if the country is more orange or green or whatever. The west is so interconnected and it's mostly social media and the internet that influences culture and values anyway.

There is no country or city that is above orange/green on this planet. "Tier 2" people or whatever you imagine to find in your "conscious" country will not be clustered anywhere, they are randomly sprinkled all over the world and it will be pure chance if you find some people on this level or not. The only way you could actively seek out these people is through work.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Nilsi

[ValiantSalvatore]

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

There is no country or city that is above orange/green on this planet. "Tier 2" people or whatever you imagine to find in your "conscious" country will not be clustered anywhere, they are randomly sprinkled all over the world and it will be pure chance if you find some people on this level or not. The only way you could actively seek out these people is through work.

SD theory would disagree with you. As they mention cities and countries even at TIER 2 at least in their newest edition. IIRC Switzerland according to their book is TIER 2 and/or at least has the capacity that the so called 10% influence who influence the whole value meme. Although I'd generally say the same to find someone at TIER 2 with a TIER 2 life style requires more co-creation at best than anything as well as I don't think any infrastructure operates streamlined at TIER 2. For example succesfull integration of villages and cities to create networks/hubs for economies locally and globally, especially with transport and interior design of buildings and technology etc. It's pretty bad imo considering also including the enviroment. Similar to the project that failed in Bali IIRC eco/tech cities. Although the habitants ultimately decide it's level of conscious the irony lol. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[Nilsi]

7 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

SD theory would disagree with you. As they mention cities and countries even at TIER 2 at least in their newest edition. IIRC Switzerland according to their book is TIER 2 and/or at least has the capacity that the so called 10% influence who influence the whole value meme. 

These surveys they do, do not accurately reflect reality. Even in the original SD book it said something like 5% of the population are in Tier 2, which is obviously horseshit. Even finding someone at a high green level is near impossible outside of academia. I've been to a bunch of places in europe and there is no city that i would even consider green. Even Berlin is mostly orange and the green hotspots are just a bunch of lefties that intuit and herald all the green wokester MEMEs, but that's mostly just a front and not grounded in any real development or transformation. It all depends on how you interpret this stuff of course but even Wilber seems to be blind to the reality, that these surveys don't mean jack shit.

[Nilsi]

18 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

Although I'd generally say the same to find someone at TIER 2 with a TIER 2 life style requires more co-creation at best than anything 

Exactly. You should be more worried about, first of all ACTUALLY reaching and living from this stage, and then embodying it in your relationships and community and helping others in their development by being a good leader and inspiring them.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Nilsi

[ValiantSalvatore]

21 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

These surveys they do, do not accurately reflect reality. Even in the original SD book it said something like 5% of the population are in Tier 2, which is obviously horseshit. Even finding someone at a high green level is near impossible outside of academia. I've been to a bunch of places in europe and there is no city that i would even consider green. Even Berlin is mostly orange and the green hotspots are just a bunch of lefties that intuit and herald all the green wokester MEMEs, but that's mostly just a front and not grounded in any real development or transformation. It all depends on how you interpret this stuff of course but even Wilber seems to be blind to the reality, that these surveys don't mean jack shit.

He recently said/admitted that Green failed and that the predictions did not play out as they supposed to as Green is seemingly stuck in devlopment. Real green is mostly in houses with their family living a live well-off as well as is highly educated usually in my own experience. Many fancy the Orange/green Green/orange lifestyle of hedonism and consumption many don't really integrate conscious and healthy living so they actually embody a TIER 2 level of emotion, moral and cognitive strength as this fluctuates anyway as nobody is consistently drawing from one strength alone from the sprial. As it's a holoarchy..
 

18 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Exactly. You should be more worried about, first of all ACTUALLY reaching and living from this stage and then embodying it in your relationships and community and helping others in their development by being a good leader and inspiring them.

I am unsure if you meant me personally as I'd find that weird to be judge be someone random online. Overall I agree and to have fruitful discussion about such topics overall contributes to inspiring action. As it confronts my biggest fear about TIER 2 creation as nobody is really motivated to do it. Many create either their own conscious place/business/counseling or with a partner as well as solve real world probems. It's very difficult to find someone like this I notice this every day when I look at my dating app as well as when I legit date people. The level of energy that is required to maintain such a life style is to much for most. It's almost an inevitability you become a leader. You just have more power at TIER 2 if you want it or not. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[Nilsi]

20 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

Real green is mostly in houses with their family living a live well-off as well as is highly educated usually in my own experience. 

Even that I find overly optimistic. If you don't make a conscious effort to develop yourself on your own terms, you will be sucked into orange by the vortex that is social media and public television. And even if you are into personal development, that will be 99% stage orange stuff and thus just reinforce your worldview; vertical development is basically unheard of outside of spiritual and intellectual circles, as there is no obvious appeal in it to most people. In my opinion Wilber and Beck are way too optimistic in their assessment of where humanity is at. Social media really is the bottleneck of humanity's evolution right now.

[Nilsi]

27 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

I am unsure if you meant me personally as I'd find that weird to be judge be someone random online. Overall I agree and to have fruitful discussion about such topics overall contributes to inspiring action. As it confronts my biggest fear about TIER 2 creation as nobody is really motivated to do it. Many create either their own conscious place/business/counseling or with a partner as well as solve real world probems. It's very difficult to find someone like this I notice this every day when I look at my dating app as well as when I legit date people. The level of energy that is required to maintain such a life style is to much for most. It's almost an inevitability you become a leader. You just have more power at TIER 2 if you want it or not. 

I obviously don't mean you personally.

I think there will be a lot more Tier 2 people in positions of power and influence over the next few years, but mostly it will be a bottom up process of individuals and local communities living in an integral way, and that will inevitably stay under the radar of anyone for a long time before a critical mass of 10% or whatever is reached. This will take multiple generations to spill over into the general public. Of course AI and other unpredictable technologies could potentially shift that overnight and the immense progress in the current development of these technologies basically makes all predictions about the future nonsensical and silly anyways.

[ValiantSalvatore]

Yes, because people don't even understand Maslow, how can they apply conscious effort? It's horrible mass psychology what is done with and by people with social media plattforms also the design of such plattforms. That sort of why game changers need to exist yet nobody runs this fuel and realistically at TIER2 jumping jobs, companies and vacations is a very common report, as you are basically a transformation agent. 

27 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Even that I find overly optimistic. If you don't make a conscious effort to develop yourself on your own terms, you will be sucked into orange by the vortex that is social media and public television. And even if you are into personal development, that will be 99% stage orange stuff and thus just reinforce your worldview; vertical development is basically unheard of outside of spiritual and intellectual circles, as there is no obvious appeal in it to most people. In my opinion Wilber and Beck are way too optimistic in their assessment of where humanity is at. Social media really is the bottleneck of humanity's evolution right now.

Many people I meet are full Green I sometimes wonder what people truely see. It's common maybe more in northern countries to see a healthy integration of blue and green family structures who are not sucked into "orange". I find Baden-Würtemberg to be a good example of this I also think it's the most conscious state by far in Germany. The entertainment industry on average will most of the time promote consumerism as people desire overly optimistic solutions, so I do think it's a smart strategy as they make it more desireable from Wilber and Beck. Wilber and Susan-Cook-Greuter are generally skeptical they say yeah it could, yet the real sentiment is. If people don't f*** it up. 

19 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

I think there will be a lot more Tier 2 people in positions of power and influence over the next few years, but mostly it will be a bottom up process of individuals and local communities living in an integral way, and that will inevitably stay under the radar of anyone for a long time before a critical mass of 10% or whatever is reached. This will take multiple generations to spill over into the general public. Of course AI and other unpredictable technologies could potentially shift that overnight and the immense progress in the current development of these technologies basically makes all predictions about the future nonsensical and silly anyways.

Agree and the bottom up process is lost in decentralized spaces. Overall I do think we are moving I see more tech companies in villages in Germany etc. A lot of modern oranges have a Tier 2 Head and a Tier 1 heart and morality. I do think there is some hope ultimately as many desire the transformation especially spiritual from Green onwards. Techincally spirituality starts at orange and this is where the real challenge is IMO especially in a first world country. Also a more global spirtuality. I just really hope people don't f*** it up.

The current cultural backlash because of ressources/security threat etc because of the war is also just a side effect. I do think this is the best time for growth possible. Might be a bit counter-intutive I just hope this finally get's over this stage of humanity and they/we/I/all legit start solving global issues. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[ValiantSalvatore]

17 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

I obviously don't mean you personally.

Thanks for saying that sometimes I find this weird to judge online. As people are prone to personal snipping. Thanks for clarifying!

[Nilsi]

8 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

Many people I meet are full Green I sometimes wonder what people truely see. It's common maybe more in northern countries to see a healthy integration of blue and green family structures who are not sucked into "orange". I find Baden-Würtemberg to be a good example of this I also think it's the most conscious state by far in Germany. The entertainment industry on average will most of the time promote consumerism as people desire overly optimistic solutions, so I do think it's a smart strategy as they make it more desireable from Wilber and Beck. Wilber and Susan-Cook-Greuter are generally skeptical they say yeah it could, yet the real sentiment is. If people don't f*** it up. 

I suspect that you do not understand what stage green actually is, although again, we are interpreting a model here so there really is no definitive right or wrong way. There is no way in hell that Baden-Württemberg is at green. Just because we elect the green party, does not mean that that has anything to do with developmental stages. There are no regions in Germany at Stage Green, and I doubt there are any anywhere. 

What you see as green is mostly just a reaction to orange. You can be at blue fundamentalism and believe in all the green memes. These people do not actually want egalitarianism or are relativists and have deconstructed science and materialism. It's just a new set of values to believe in to be able to demonize others while not having to work on oneself. You have no idea how bad it is. 

It's near Impossible to not be in orange as a German that is on social media or is watching public television. All these people are completely brainwashed into scientific materialism and their modernist values. The only differences are in the degree to which one believes in libertarianism, and to the degree that one does not believe in it (which is usually the degree to which one is a have-not), one either goes to the populist alt right or adapts the green equality MEMEs, but that's all coming from a place of fear and is a pure reaction to orange. Nothing about any of this is actual development and personal growth.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Nilsi

[MarkKol]

United States will seem most conscious if you're middle class and above, other countries might have far better politics but its pointless. None of them can beat 330+ million people living together with one common language. 

I'd call Norway's politics more green, but I'd still bet on more stage green peope living in the US than Norway,Sweden and Netherlands combined

Every European country has one big problem holding it back from greatness, Language. It's far more important than it might initially seem. Most Europeans and most Americans don't usually appreciate how powerful it is to have 330+ million people speaking the same language. Honestly I feel like I'm the only person on earth who sees the value In that

 

I wouldn't even consider Asia, China does have more than a billion people speaking the same language, but under communism none of that shit matters

[Nilsi]

48 minutes ago, MarkKol said:

Every European country has one big problem holding it back from greatness, Language. It's far more important than it might initially seem. Most Europeans and most Americans don't usually appreciate how powerful it is to have 330+ million people speaking the same language. Honestly I feel like I'm the only person on earth who sees the value In that

How is that the case? There are dramatic differences in how a stage blue person and a Tier 2 person would use language, and if you believe Chomsky, the underlying structure of language is universal anyway. So all that is happening within language is higher abstractions are emerging and that is not threatened by many people speaking the language, it is actually enabled by that.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Nilsi I think you are very biased and just act according to culture. As well as I don't think you can contemplate SD with being overly critical and meeting every exact criteria. I dunno maybe do it for a few years. I don't think you understand how shallow Green of a development is to see it. But ... it's quiet common.

I am pretty sure you never contemplated TIER1 and TIER2 properly. If Germany would be full Orange I'd be dead and we'd have more centrist republican/libeterian idiots. The biggest idiots we have are people overly woreshipping science. People just seem to equate it with German culture and enjoy it more...

Having worked with researchers etc. I think you are beyond blind tbh.

I wonder what stories people tell themselves and which people they talk to get to these conclusions. Don't get me wrong a majority is Orange. I don't think you get how a meme even works. If you can't contemplate a symbol being projected even in the real world such as on signs and street posts. I wonder sometimes how long it takes for people to wake up to that reality lol.

Seeing a construct at least I am no wanting to continue this negative nancy attitude it does no good imo.

This is such a re-hersal to read I am unsure how that reads. 

Also SD development is independent of what constitutes to the skill and usage of language. That is a poor marker for SD development also again just current contemporary bias. Nothing like this is true in it's whole. Cook-Greuter would agree yet that would only be for construct aware individuals. As they basically crave to express and use their ontology.

Maybe I start writing in Hyroglyphics just to display again how simple language is used and what a tool it actually is.

It is a lot of UL/LL/Zone 1 and Zone 3 IIRC Zone 5 Zone 7 bias. Depending on how you zoom in and out of the topics. 

I am sorry I like this technical stuff I don't see many true change Agents in Germany. People just infinitely regress when bad shit happens. 

I do trust Germans more than you think I just think the body of thought is beyond not good. As people can't even utilize Maslow like wtf.

Edited July 25, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[Nilsi]

33 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

@Nilsi I think you are very biased and just act according to culture. As well as I don't think you can contemplate SD with being overly critical and meeting every exact criteria. I dunno maybe do it for a few years. I don't think you understand how shallow Green of a development is to see it. But ... it's quiet common.

I am pretty sure you never contemplated TIER1 and TIER2 properly. If Germany would be full Orange I'd be dead and we'd have more centrist republican/libeterian idiots. The biggest idiots we have are people overly woreshipping science. People just seem to equate it with German culture and enjoy it more...

Having worked with researchers etc. I think you are beyond blind tbh.

I wonder what stories people tell themselves and which people they talk to get to these conclusions. Don't get me wrong a majority is Orange. I don't think you get how a meme even works. If you can't contemplate a symbol being projected even in the real world such as on signs and street posts. I wonder sometimes how long it takes for people to wake up to that reality lol.

Seeing a construct at least I am no wanting to continue this negative nancy attitude it does no good imo.

This is such a re-hersal to read I am unsure how that reads. 

Also SD development is independent of what constitutes to the skill and usage of language. That is a poor marker for SD development also again just current contemporary bias. Nothing like this is true in it's whole. Cook-Greuter would agree yet that would only be for construct aware individuals. As they basically crave to express and use their ontology.

Maybe I start writing in Hyroglyphics just to display again how simple language is used and what a tool it actually is.

It is a lot of UL/LL/Zone 1 and Zone 3 IIRC Zone 5 Zone 7 bias. Depending on how you zoom in and out of the topics. 

I am sorry I like this technical stuff I don't see many true change Agents in Germany. People just infinitely regress when bad shit happens. 

I do trust Germans more than you think I just think the body of thought is beyond not good. As people can't even utilize Maslow like wtf.

Wow, talk about being judged.

It's always funny when someone gets so overly defensive and dismissive, makes you wonder why they feel so threatened.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Nilsi yeah the whole point of the argument personal snipping. If you truely keep this abstract you'd see a level of non-judgement appropriately. 

As I will when I see so many mistakes.

Edited July 25, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[Nilsi]

6 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

@Nilsi yeah the whole point of the argument personal snipping. If you truely keep this abstract you'd see a level of non-judgement appropriately. 

As I will when I see so many mistakes.

I'm not wasting more time on your nonsense.

[ValiantSalvatore]

Thank the lord.

[Razard86]

Here ya go. https://visitsedona.com/

Stop looking for countries. Look for cities.

[Nilsi]

20 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Here ya go. https://visitsedona.com/

Stop looking for countries. Look for cities.

"Look at that one random place at the other side of the globe - move there." This is just nonsense man. Don't get hung up on this shit, develop yourself and be the change you want to see. These secluded communities notoriously come crashing and burning at some point. This will never work and furthermore is not the solution to our collective problems, running away from the problems will not fix them.