Type compatibility

[thisintegrated]

1 hour ago, Yali said:

@thisintegrated

This run contrary to my experience. As an INTJ, I find I get along very well with types within my quadra -- ENTJ, INTJ, ISFP, ESFP. ENFP is alright but ENTP not so much as we share NO cognitive functions. @Proserpina

INTJ is supposed to be the most compatible of all types for ENTPs.  And that's true, ime, for long term term compatibility.

Duality is supposed to work because "opposites attract", so the fact they share no functions is a good thing.

 

1 hour ago, Loba said:

@thisintegrated Yeah, I can't imagine a little marshmallow like an INFP being good for an EXTJ, they're so busy and often quite militant - they don't have good listening skills.  INFP's are looking for emotions and soft feelings to share with their partner, so I've never really understood why people ship them with thinking judgers so frequently.

I think a healthy ENFJ would be the best match, but they're quite rare to find in good condition.  The Fe + Ni has that kind of "swallow you up, you belong to me, you are part of my tribe forever" kind of affect that the INFP is looking for.  And they're judgers, so they're still able to allow some sense of groundedness.

We like Te to some extent, but not to the point where it takes over our alone-time routines, prevents open ended exploration and stifles us with a schedule.  It just seems odd to me to put an INFP, who is terrible at Te, with Te-doms, while overlooking their need for emotional validation and support from a kind, present partner.

One INFP I knew just wanted someone to tell her what to do, to command her, but to also be smart.  ENTJs are usually what they're looking for.  ENFJs would likely be good friends for INFPs as they'd hear them out and be interested in their emotions, but not sure about long term compatibility.

 

11 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

Hmm... I've had a deep fascination with type theory my entire life.  Spiral dynamics was like candy when I first discovered it.  

Artsu typed me as ISFP.  I can't type myself for shit but I always get INFP on the test.  Thanks for the second opinion.  

INFP confirmed.

You're like the 3rd ISFP I've debunked this week.  In the years I've been on this forum, I've only ever come across maybe 4 people claiming to be ISFP.  Actualization + ISFP just don't go together.

[Loba]

12 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

One INFP I knew just wanted someone to tell her what to do, to command her, but to also be smart.  ENTJs are usually what they're looking for.  ENFJs would likely be good friends for INFPs as they'd hear them out and be interested in their emotions, but not sure about long term compatibility.

I can see that, but I personally have a stubborn streak and I feel like I wouldn't be able to trust their leadership.  But in a long term relationship, I tend to be the person that prefers "to-do" lists, or I just generally do nothing or don't know what direction to go in in order to move the partnership forward.  So yeah, that does make sense now that I think about it.  I would just do my list, cross everything off, then go about with my own little adventures, followed by an evening of snuggles.

ENFJ could work if both people are healthy, but it is very hard to manage if either one is unhealthy.  I guess I just love the idea of them, thinking about them and their warm Fe + Ni makes me feel squishy inside.

16 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

INTJ is supposed to be the most compatible of all types for ENTPs.  And that's true, ime, for long term term compatibility.

Duality is supposed to work because "opposites attract", so the fact they share no functions is a good thing.

You have an intj fetish for sure.  I always thought that each type did better with a feeler, though.  You with an infj and them with an enfp.  I can see you in particular with an intj though: maliciously humorous, arrogant, sarcastic and elitist, with zero feels - like two robots connecting at the wires, it would be an interesting dynamic.

[thisintegrated]

9 minutes ago, Loba said:

You have an intj fetish for sure.

??

9 minutes ago, Loba said:

I always thought that each type did better with a feeler, though.  You with an infj and them with an enfp.

I think INFJs aren't arrogant enough for me.  Too easy to get along with.

Sister's a Yellow INFJ and we get along almost too well.  It would be a problem to be in a relationship with such a person as there's not enough fire/sparks.  But for more casual relationships it's perfect.  One of the most well rounded and open minded types.

 

9 minutes ago, Loba said:

I can see you in particular with an intj though: maliciously humorous, arrogant, sarcastic and elitist, with zero feels - like two robots connecting at the wires, it would be an interesting dynamic.

I have feels, it's just the INTJs that don't??

[AtheisticNonduality]

32 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

I have feels, it's just the INTJs that don't??

Fi = emotions. Fe = detecting emotions / pseudo-emotions.

[Loba]

6 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

I think INFJs aren't arrogant enough for me.  Too easy to get along with.

Sister's a Yellow INFJ and we get along almost too well.  It would be a problem to be in a relationship with such a person as there's not enough fire/sparks.  But for more casual relationships it's perfect.  One of the most well rounded and open minded types.

Well if you're looking for arrogant, they are that, why you want that, only God knows.  INFJs are sweet, good people.  I like them.

I agree, well rounded, genius level in a lot of the things that they do.  I had a close INFJ friend growing up and I loved her a lot, she was really good at organizing parties and I met a lot of people through her.

8 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

I have feels, it's just the INTJs that don't??

Don't you want someone to love you back?

My experiences with this type - 
I've dealt with three of them in my life, they're super rare.  One, a female I grew up with, we always got along really well and she ended up getting a PHD, starting a family with her long term boyfriend, now husband and moving to Boulder.  I miss her.  I like the female ones, they are pretty chill, the males are strange.  She started off doing really terribly in school, but I always remember her having this genius level ability to put things together, like she was always making things and playing with rubix cubes and she had a strong sarcasm about her that was very endearing.  Because we grew up together, I got to see her softer side, and she was so innocent and childlike and curious and when we would get drunk we would run around the city and make monkey noises at people.

The second was a guy I dated for a short while, he had a crush on me for like a year and I quickly learned that he fantasized about me too much and when he met the real me, he was subtly trying to change aspects of who I was.  Also a drug user.  Shy.  Cute, though.  We didn't really have any sparks when we had sex, he thought I was bad at it and expected things to happen right off the bat that my body wasn't capable of and really, I'm not bad, but I just didn't feel it with him, so I couldn't be warm and snuggly with him in my own way and after I realized he had these expectations that were subtle but starting to show themselves, enough that I could see a red flag, I broke up with him.  He was sad about it, but got over it and found a nice girl about a year later.  That was when I learned that intjs are weird people who don't live in the real world and that they are too dry and cold to really bring out my warm side, and so sparks never get started.  I always felt kind of guarded around him, like I couldn't really read him very well.

Third was a dude I met on a website, we argued a lot.  I thought he hated me, but he reached out, and then right after that told me he didn't feel I should be talking to him for some reason, but I said I didn't mind.  We talked for a week or two.  He was going through things, and sending me a lot of mixed signals, kind of seemingly attempting to rebound me and I took offence and wrote something a bit over the top at the time.  I was drunk.  If I wasn't drunk, I probably still would have said something, but not quite so cruelly.  As it turns out, his response to me was denying some of his mixed signals, falling back on some initial statements he made and I learned that he had a scathingly accurate picture of every one of my weaknesses and insecurities, like probably more accurate than I could paint a picture of myself and it made me question if this person was talking to me allthewhile just keeping note of every flaw I ever had.  I regret saying such mean things to him, though, and I think if he had just kept it casual and hadn't been so weird that I wouldn't have minded him.

I admire their ni - te though, from those that I have seen, but I don't know what to make of their arrogance, lack of humility - even if they are intellectually advanced, the hierarchal nature of viewing other people below them, coldness and inability to be in real-reality kind of pushes me away from that type hardcore.  And then on top of that they are so fragile underneath it all, like they have no problem analyzing all your weaknesses and in the case of the ex, weirdly fantasizing about you for a long time, and then expecting you to fit into a mold that they've already created in their minds.  They view people based on what is wrong with them, assessing their vulnerabilities, allthewhile acting cordial to you, and I don't like that, and you can't call them out on their shit because they'll find reasons as to why you're wrong.  Too argumentative.

But maybe your type would work well, I could see your type being less sensitive and something sarcastically playful taking off, for sure.

So, with that said, when you mention ENTJ being a good match for INFP it worries me, because they are like the big brother type, and I couldn't handle the little brother type and I feel like the big guy would just steam roll right over me.  I've witnessed ENTJ's in love and they offer Te solution after Te solution without really seeing their partners for who they are, or connecting to them on any deep level.  It's like "just do this and everything will be fine", but it's like, maybe the INFP just wants a more vulnerable partner.

This is why I root for the ENFJ's.

[thisintegrated]

39 minutes ago, Loba said:

Well if you're looking for arrogant, they are that, why you want that, only God knows.

If someone claims to be "the best" then they actually put in the effort it takes to be "the best".  If they're smart and self-aware then to actually believe in their own arrogant claims there has to be at least some validity to those claims.  Problem is that 99% of INTJs are Orange, and, therefore, lack this self-awareness and are just cold, immature, imbalanced wannabe INTPs.

 

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Don't you want someone to love you back?

I did a while ago.  Got it.  Now a girl is obsessed and in love with me but I just don't really care.  Nothing exciting about love in itself.  Love only means something when everything else works.

I think something a lot of women don't realize is that women need love.  Men need respect.

Testosterone is the hormone that makes effort feel good.  Man = testosterone/effort.  Men feel good when their effort is respected/appreciated, as it basically means they are valued as a man by the woman, and this is of course good for relationships which revolve around the gender dynamic.

Women are different.  What makes a woman feel like the woman in this gender dynamic is being cared for, which is the main form of love they need.  Feeling loved = safety and assurance that the relationship is working/stable.  Whereas if a man feels loved that says nothing about the quality of the relationship.

 

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starting a family with her long term boyfriend, now husband and moving to Boulder.

Moving to live under a boulder?  Like Patrick?

 

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I miss her.  I like the female ones, they are pretty chill

?

Actually that's been my experience too.  I still kinda miss my INTJ ex.  But Orange be Orange.

 

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the males are strange.

Oh yes..

Though they're weirdly attracted to INFPs, so watch out!

Edited August 15, 2022 by thisintegrated

[AtheisticNonduality]

Just now, thisintegrated said:

Oh yes..

Though they're weirdly attracted to INFPs, so watch out!

????

[Loba]

2 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

If someone claims to be "the best" then they actually put in the effort it takes to be "the best".  If they're smart and self-aware then to actually believe in their own arrogant claims there has to be at least some validity to those claims.  Problem is that 99% of INTJs are Orange, and, therefore, lack this self-awareness and are just cold, immature, imbalanced wannabe INTPs.

I think they probably are the best at a lot of things - ni-te is a super power for sure, and thinking back on my female friend - she put in the effort to be the best at what she did.  In everything in life, really.  Once she got over her high school struggles, she turned into a completely different person, driven, and always excelled at everything she put her mind to and I really admired her for it.  We got along perfectly, there was something very similar about us, but also very different.  She was someone who I could say actually genuinely deserved the good things that happened to her because she put in the work and smarts to accomplish what she dreamed in life, and ended up with a loving family, a beautiful house, a great education and a good looking husband, too.  It certainly wasn't the stereotypical "hot girl gets everything she wants in life" -  she was really beautiful, too, but she actually worked hard and made things happen.

I can see how a lot of them end up orange, for sure, constantly striving for success in different areas and also excelling at it like a total boss.  But if you don't have high fe and your fi is in the third slot it can be hard to develop the love and warmth that feeling types are able to obtain.  That said, though - once they do, they move onto yellow pretty rapidly.
I don't know why they would want to be INTP's.  I have had some INTP friends, most of them had autism, but they were really wonderful, interesting people who also did really well in the academic field, but they had a harder time diversifying themselves in some aspects.  INTP's are so smart, like, the one I knew had three master's degrees in different areas of mathematics, but when it came to understanding people, he really struggled.  I think the difference is that he wasn't cold at all, he was awkward, but warm and super sweet.  I never get the impression though that an INTJ wants to be anything other than itself.  Despite what I've mentioned, and there are a lot on this website, too, they seem to really value being who they are and don't really try to be anything other than that.

2 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

I did a while ago.  Got it.  Now a girl is obsessed and in love with me but I just don't really care.  Nothing exciting about love in itself.  Love only means something when everything else works.

I think something a lot of women don't realize is that women need love.  Men need respect.

Testosterone is the hormone that makes effort feel good.  Man = testosterone/effort.  Men feel good when their effort is respected/appreciated, as it basically means they are valued as a man by the woman, and this is of course good for relationships which revolve around the gender dynamic.

Women are different.  What makes a woman feel like the woman in this gender dynamic is being cared for, which is the main form of love they need.  Feeling loved = safety and assurance that the relationship is working/stable.  Whereas if a man feels loved that says nothing about the quality of the relationship.

I get you and agree, if it doesn't fit then the love doesn't matter.  I used to have a different outlook on love, but I've been through blind love followed by incompatibility and it can be just... errrr!  Everything needs to fit, if it's just love and nothing else then you don't have anything to work with long term.  I guess I was just thinking of the ENTP's desire to be loved by people, and an INFJ generally has a deep, deep love that is almost completely unmatched by any other type of person.

No, I get that completely.  I feel that love and respect are the same thing, just different ways of expressing it.  But... I guess also not, in many ways.  I can dislike people, but still respect them, and visa versa, I can love someone and not respect them at all.  There's always a bit of cognitive dissonance with that, because although they are different, you want to love 'and' respect people instead of just having one or the other.

As an INFP, generally I respect most men.  While loving them actually takes time.  I don't just "love" a person right away, I like to assess them a bit, see what they're like and if I do respect them, then the love 'might' follow.  Sometimes though, I do act disrespectfully and it does feel like a skewed dynamic.  Generally this happens if I can tell that the guy doesn't have my best interests at heart, then I will bite them.

I don't know how ENTP's are with this, you guys generally seem to always have a good nature about you.  You do your best to be as objective as you can in most situations.

2 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Moving to live under a boulder?  Like Patrick?

Boulder CO, but maybe under a rock, too, I hear Colorado has a lot of rocks.

2 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

?

Actually that's been my experience too.  I still kinda miss my INTJ ex.  But Orange be Orange.

You could probably find a yellow intj, they're probably not that rare.  What's rare is finding a woman with that type.  What was incompatible about her, besides orange, that made you break up?  Maybe you could have worked through the orange?

2 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Oh yes..

Though they're weirdly attracted to INFPs, so watch out!

Yes, I know this - but only if fi values line up - if they don't then they lose interest just as quickly, as I learned with the ex.  They like to fantasize about INFP's, but once they get to know us it's a no go more often than not.  They genuinely, truly need ne to be happy people, fi isn't good as a long term investment.  I could see though, maybe if fi values did match, that it would be a decent relationship, both would be working towards the same thing, but I don't see that being a very common thing.  I think that the INTJ would expect more than the INFP could offer and that it would end up with a very lop sided dynamic.  They should probably just give up the ghost and stick to EXFP hookers.

[Yali]

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Duality is supposed to work because "opposites attract", so the fact they share no functions is a good thing.

That's like saying an athiest and a fundamentalist Christain would get along because they have opposite values. That's ridiculous! Compatibility comes from sharing the same values, not opposite.

Duals don't value opposite congnitive functions but the same functions in opposite order:

INTJ (Ni, Te, Fi, Se) - ESFP (Se, Fi, Te, Ni)

ISFP (Fi, Se, Ni, Te) - ENTJ (Te, Ni, Se, Fi)

INTP (Ti, Ne, Si, Fe) - ESFJ (Fe, Si, Ne, Ti)

ENTP (Ne, Ti, Fe, Si) - ISFJ (Si, Fe, Ti, Ne)

INFJ (Ni, Fe, Ti, Se) - ESTP (Se, Ti, Fe, Ni)

ENFJ (Fe, Ni, Se, Ti) - ISTP (Ti, Se, Ni, Fe)

INFP (Fi, Ne, Si, Te) - ESTJ (Te, Si, Ne, Fi) 

ENFP (Ne, Fi, Te, Si) - ISTJ (Si, Te, Fi, Ne)

 

@thisintegrated

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Yali

[thisintegrated]

 

18 hours ago, Loba said:

As an INFP, generally I respect most men.  While loving them actually takes time.  I don't just "love" a person right away, I like to assess them a bit, see what they're like and if I do respect them, then the love 'might' follow.  Sometimes though, I do act disrespectfully and it does feel like a skewed dynamic.  Generally this happens if I can tell that the guy doesn't have my best interests at heart, then I will bite them.

Interesting.  I thought INFPs would be quick to love someone.  I can love people from just seeing a single post of theirs on the forum.  I can immediately feel a person and understand them on a deep level without even getting to know them personally.  I guess it's an Fe thing??

 

18 hours ago, Loba said:

I don't know how ENTP's are with this, you guys generally seem to always have a good nature about you.  You do your best to be as objective as you can in most situations.

Yep.  imo ENTP is the most balanced type.  The intellect of an INTP with the emotional awareness of an ENFJ.

 

18 hours ago, Loba said:

What's rare is finding a woman with that type.

This.

 

18 hours ago, Loba said:

What was incompatible about her, besides orange, that made you break up?  Maybe you could have worked through the orange?

She went to a psychologist, found out she's even more fucked up than she realized, decided she's not ready for a relationship.

 

18 hours ago, Loba said:

Yes, I know this - but only if fi values line up - if they don't then they lose interest just as quickly, as I learned with the ex.  They like to fantasize about INFP's, but once they get to know us it's a no go more often than not.

Yep.  Ni = fantasy land.  INTJ = think they know what they want, but actually don't.

 

18 hours ago, Loba said:

They should probably just give up the ghost and stick to EXFP hookers.

I hope Atheistic is taking notes.

[thisintegrated]

17 hours ago, Yali said:

That's like saying an athiest and a fundamentalist Christain would get along because they have opposite values. That's ridiculous! Compatibility comes from sharing the same values, not opposite.

Duals don't value opposite congnitive functions but the same functions in opposite order:

INTJ (Ni, Te, Fi, Se) - ESFP (Se, Fi, Te, Ni)

ISFP (Fi, Se, Ni, Te) - ENTJ (Te, Ni, Se, Fi)

INTP (Ti, Ne, Si, Fe) - ESFJ (Fe, Si, Ne, Ti)

ENTP (Ne, Ti, Fe, Si) - ISFJ (Si, Fe, Ti, Ne)

INFJ (Ni, Fe, Ti, Se) - ESTP (Se, Ti, Fe, Ni)

ENFJ (Fe, Ni, Se, Ti) - ISTP (Ti, Se, Ni, Fe)

INFP (Fi, Ne, Si, Te) - ESTJ (Te, Si, Ne, Fi) 

ENFP (Ne, Fi, Te, Si) - ISTJ (Si, Te, Fi, Ne)

 

A relationship with your subconscious is unlikely to ever work well.  Whenever you use your favorite function, you're triggering their inferior function and making them feel insecure and entering conflict.

I'd also argue that Fi + Fi relationships are just awful.  Fi and Fe seek each other out.  They want each other.  They complete each other.  Fi + Fi is a total distasted for long term relationships.  Though, Ti + Ti can work as it's based on universal logic and not "I feel x, so you should also feel x!"

As a Fe, I get much more excited by Fi users than Fes.  I'm not compatible with Fe users, as Socionics would suggest.

In a workplace setting I'd benefit more from a Te than Ti, but I'd have more respect and comradery for a fellow Ti.

In relationships Se is a must, as Si + Si would mean we're both waiting for the other to initiate and suggest activities or whatever.

As a Ne, other Nes just enable my jumping from idea to idea, so although I respect Ne users more, I'm more compatible with Ni users for long term.

 

So this idea of duality is 100% complete bullshit, in my very well informed opinion.  I don't think there's any validity to duality whatsoever.  I've heard every argument.  I've research Socionics for years.  It's just wrong here.

[Yali]

5 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

very well informed

Well informed by who? @thisintegrated

[thisintegrated]

1 minute ago, Yali said:

Well informed by who? @thisintegrated

Years of research.  If I had a PhD in psychology I'd be less informed about Socionics than I am now as psychology doesn't study Socionics or MBTI.

The only way you get good at Socionics/MBTI is through research.  Not from listening to a single youtuber or attending any sort of classes.

[Yali]

@thisintegrated

1 minute ago, thisintegrated said:

Years of research. 

Well those years of research hasn't amounted to much.

[thisintegrated]

Just now, Yali said:

@thisintegrated

Well those years of research hasn't amounted to much.

I'll take this to mean you concede.

[Yali]

7 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

I'll take this to mean you concede.

No, I mean what I say.

I think you're misguided. @thisintegrated

Edited August 16, 2022 by Yali

[thisintegrated]

Just now, Yali said:

No, I mean what I say.

I think you're misguided. @thisintegrated

I promise I've spent more time thinking about Socionics than you have.

If you spent even a year reading personal accounts, reading theory, and trying to make sense of it all then you would've realized Duality is nonsense.  That's not how functions work.  Have you looked into the personal life of Aušra Augustinavičiūtė?  She's biased AF.  She was trying to make a model to account for her own personal failures in relationships.  

[Yali]

@thisintegrated

1 minute ago, thisintegrated said:

I promise I've spent more time thinking about Socionics than you have.

Yea, and religious theologians have spent more time thinking about God than most of us but they're just as clueless as you.

[thisintegrated]

Just now, Yali said:

@thisintegrated

Yea, and religious theologians have spent more time thinking about God than most of us but they're just as clueless as you.

Explain to me.. How is Fi + Fi an objectively better match than Fi + Fe, considering Fi and Fe naturally seek each other out?

[Yali]

Just now, thisintegrated said:

considering Fi and Fe naturally seek each other out?

I don't know why you believe opposite values seek each other out. That's like saying an athiest and fundamentalist christain seek each other out. That's non-sense! @thisintegrated