How disheartening is it that the progressives absolutely failed?

[Hardkill]

For all of their efforts of constantly trying their very hardest to pressure the Biden Administration and Congress to get any of the progressive or even moderately liberal policies they wanted for the greater good of the country, they got ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Even the BBB bill, in truth had many strong, but reasonable and popular centre-left policies. The progressives fight like hell for over the past year to get as much as they could get out that bill, and in the end, they failed to get virtually ANY of the provisions in that bill passed.

The progressives were even't able to persuade Biden and the Dems in Congress to appoint and confirm anyone who was not a neoliberal for any key positions in the Biden Administration.

They totally failed with pressuring Biden and the Dems in Congress or even moderate pro-environmental Republicans like Susan Collins to get anything significant done with fighting climate change. 

The only thing that I can think of that the progressives were perhaps successful with was being able to convince Stephen Breyer to retired and help to make sure that Jackson gets confirmed as the first black woman ever on SCOTUS. That was great, but in the grand scheme of things, that's not much of a win for progressives. Also, the new SCOTUS justice undoubtedly eminently qualified for the job and seems to have a really great character, but she sadly isn't going to be able to get much for black and brown people in our country, because of how unusually far to the right our US Supreme Court has become.

Yes, they have been able to push their Democratic Party as a whole even to further to the left, but how has that helped get anything materially done for the working class people, middle class people, poverty stricken people, and underprivileged minorities in America?

I understand that major progress does indeed take many years if not decades to achieve, but I don't see what significant progress the progressive coalition have really accomplished with their whole movement, even INCREMENTALLY, since the 90s. I am having trouble seeing how they will one day turned out to be successful like the civil rights movement, abolition movements, or early 20th century progressive era movement were. 

In fact, the progressives in my opinion seem to have already done more harm than good. If it wasn't for their Bernie or bust attitude Hillary instead of Trump would've been president. Even still to this day they keep hurting the Democrats electorally with their moronic divisiveness and constant blaming of the establishment Dems.

So, why should any of us continue to have faith in the progressive coalition going forward?

[BlueOak]

10 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Yes, they have been able to push their Democratic Party as a whole even to further to the left,

On what exactly? What major policy has the democratic party gone left on? If you get one you'll be doing well.

[Hardkill]

11 hours ago, BlueOak said:

On what exactly? What major policy has the democratic party gone left on? If you get one you'll be doing well.

Well, the political positions of the Democratic Party as a whole have shifted more to the left since around 2016 in the following ways:

- Has swung back more towards pro-labor union stances. 

- Have become even more supportive of the idea of using the government as an agent of human welfare.

- Has become less supportive of the exploitative aspects of free trade.

- Has become more pro-environmental.

- More willing to call out the corruption of corporate financing than before.

- Have become more supportive of the LGBTQ+ community

- Even more supportive of racial minorities than before.

- Have become more dovish. 

 

I can't think of anything off the top of my head at the moment. Nevertheless, shifting the whole Democratic Party more to the left still hasn't done much more good for the country, from a practical standpoint.

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Hardkill

[BlueOak]

9 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Well, the political positions of the Democratic Party as a whole have shifted more to the left since around 2016 in the following ways:

- Has swung back more towards pro-labor union stances. 

- Have become even more supportive of the idea of using the government as an agent of human welfare.

- Has become less supportive of the exploitative aspects of free trade.

- Has become more pro-environmental.

- More willing to call out the corruption of corporate financing than before.

- Have become more supportive of the LGBTQ+ community

- Even more supportive of racial minorities than before.

- Have become more dovish. 

 

I can't think of anything off the top of my head at the moment. Nevertheless, shifting the whole Democratic Party more to the left still hasn't done much more good for the country, from a practical standpoint.

 

Largely because all countries have moved to an authoritarian mindset and most of what you listed is done in lip service only. This has happened on the left and the right of your country.

Your immigration policy moved authoritarian
Your economic policy moved authoritarian
Your separation of church/state moved authoritarian
Your stance on civil rights has jumped authoritarian
Your drug policy is moving gradually liberal
Your stance on overseas conflict is moving liberal
Barely seen any movement on the environment by anyone, just more pledges.

Unions. The populists on both sides are giving unions more time because they've grown in popularity. I even saw tucker Carlson on fox giving them airtime. I've not seen politicians do more than stand beside unions and look good on camera. Happy to be proven wrong, they still have almost no power and no political support.

Using the government as an agent of human welfare? Any examples as I am not sure what you mean here? 

Corporate funding  LOL No. Let's just agree to disagree on that entirely. There are politicians that say its bad, and most of them take it anyway, a small handful doesn't. Corporate funding decides who you get to see elected, they back the candidates they want on both sides and annihilate those they don't want. Every year a few more none corporate-funded jackals get into power.

Everything else is culture war that everyone loves to fight over. Gender/Race. Important sure, but what 90% of your politics revolves around. We can add the church/state balance and civil rights to that now. 

*Can't comment on trade, don't know your overseas trade agreements well enough.

**I don't have the vocabulary or much of the nuance for your country but as I understand it, the method of governing itself, that is in relation to third parties or just keeping a single party in power in a state out of the two, has leaped authoritarian over the years.

Edited July 18, 2022 by BlueOak

[Leo Gura]

Democracy is fundamentally about compromise with people you disagree with. It is naive and foolish to expect to demonize everyone else and get your way.

Progressives are a minority in America. So they will rarely get their way, no matter what stories they tell you. And they tell A LOT of stories about how they are a majority.

[Ineedanswers]

@Leo Gura  progressives are usually stage green and above right leo? Does this mean the majority of america  stage orange and below?

Edited July 18, 2022 by Ineedanswers

[BlueOak]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Progressives are a minority in America. So they will rarely get their way, no matter what stories they tell you. And they tell A LOT of stories about how they are a majority.

 

@Leo Gura

Because at face value on social or economic issues they ARE the majority. They take a popular issue that polls 50%+ and say let's change this. If you were to stop the conversation there that'd be all she wrote.

Free X! or Better X!

Then they have to come up with how that is funded, which is inevitably going to poll worse than the initial do you want free X poll :D, Then people are polled on what needs to be sacrificed to achieve it. Then we get all the garbage or lies to smear the issue on top of that, and the poll numbers drop further.

But then progressives need to be in the minority, that's how life works, they slowly and gradually adapt the status quo to what people are asking for. When that is achieved new people coming in are going to be progressive, while the old ones become the norm. Sorry for highlighting it bluntly, you tend to hate on them a lot Leo, I don't think once I've seen a positive comment about progressives from yourself, when they are a required part of democracy.

I would call the recent idealism by conservatives to also be a form of progressive politics, though both sides would skin me alive for the name I don't have a better or more respectful one. I could say reactionary but I've been stomped on for using that before because of its connotations.

[Razard86]

26 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

I would call the recent idealism by conservatives to also be a form of progressive politics, though both sides would skin me alive for the name I don't have a better or more respectful one. I could say reactionary but I've been stomped on for using that before because of its connotations.

Who cares if they stomp, if you like the term use it. Your perspective is your perspective.

[BlueOak]

46 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Who cares if they stomp, if you like the term use it. Your perspective is your perspective.

Because I like to be respectful of the person I am talking to, at least to start there. If they have a name they'd rather call themselves, i'd use it.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, BlueOak said:

Sorry for highlighting it bluntly, you tend to hate on them a lot Leo, I don't think once I've seen a positive comment about progressives from yourself, when they are a required part of democracy.

Lol

I am a progressive.

I'm just not also naive about how civilization works.

The problem with most progressives is that they are blinded by self-bias. They are unable to go meta on their own perspective. And so they are constantly fighting a war they cannot win.

[Devin]

Biden has appointed a ton of judges which makes a huge difference

Re-entered Paris climate accord

Electric vehicles are looking more serious and more quickly than anyone expected, the infrastructure bill passed is going to help with that even more.

Quit separating children from parents at the borders

The attorney generals office is now supporting free and fair elections. And investigating and prosecuting injustice.

Stopped keystone xl pipeline

I think the progressives are doing great, just ask a conservative they'll tell you they're doing all sorts of stuff.

Toppling who appears to be the world leader in disinformation, Russia, getting Europe out of their pocket.

Progressives never get everything they want to get done, if they did they would no longer be Progressives.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Devin

[Hardkill]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Democracy is fundamentally about compromise with people you disagree with. It is naive and foolish to expect to demonize everyone else and get your way.

Progressives are a minority in America. So they will rarely get their way, no matter what stories they tell you. And they tell A LOT of stories about how they are a majority.

 

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol

I am a progressive.

I'm just not also naive about how civilization works.

The problem with most progressives is that they are blinded by self-bias. They are unable to go meta on their own perspective. And so they are constantly fighting a war they cannot win.

Which is why I think that progressives should just throw in the towel with their whole movement and maybe try their luck again 10 to 20 years from now.

In the meantime, why don't they work on making their ideas much more emotionally appealing. Like why don't they try coming up with very catchy slogans, pithy sound bytes, cool logos and bump stickers, symbolic flags, or identifiable songs about saving the environment?

12 hours ago, Devin said:

Biden has appointed a ton of judges which makes a huge difference

Re-entered Paris climate accord

Electric vehicles are looking more serious and more quickly than anyone expected, the infrastructure bill passed is going to help with that even more.

Quit separating children from parents at the borders

The attorney generals office is now supporting free and fair elections. And investigating and prosecuting injustice.

Stopped keystone xl pipeline

I think the progressives are doing great, just ask a conservative they'll tell you they're doing all sorts of stuff.

Toppling who appears to be the world leader in disinformation, Russia, getting Europe out of their pocket.

Progressives never get everything they want to get done, if they did they would no longer be Progressives.

Those have all been good policies that Biden and the centre-left Democrats in Congress have gotten done but what the progressives done to make any actual progress for our country?